So, hackers can take a few moments after each node they hack to Medic away whatever damage the IC inflicted before they converted the program into so many spare bits. Cheap trick if you ask me, but fine. And don't anybody dare get into Doc Smith matters here. And Technomancers can't heal themselves because their living persona is so tied to their brain such that even a normal attack program causes actual damage to the brain that causes them to become unconscious, and it's certainly true that a physical brain can't be healed by thinking a complex form at it. Alright, fine.
So Technomancers can reboot themselves? Weird, but okay. Wait, you say this restores everything about their living persona? (Read the rules: this is, in fact, what it says.) But their living persona is tied to their brain. When they get hit with an attack program, their brain actually shatters and causes neurochemicals to flood in that knock them unconscious. When they get hit with Black Hammer IC, their brains spurt blood like a busted fire hydrant. This means one of two things. Either:
1) When a technomancer reboots himself, he becomes a medical miracle, repairing life-threatening damage to his brain in a matter of hours, or
2) The living persona is not, in fact, as directly tied to the brain as it seems, and should, in fact, have its own Matrix Condition Monitor which may, come to think of it, bring Technomancers closer to the power level of hackers. Heck, they could even be affected by Medic complex forms (although not Medic programs, if you feel that only Resonance can heal living personas) - wouldn't that be something!
I'm not a huge fan of #1, but the rules seem pretty clear that the living persona uses the Technomancer's physical and stun condition monitors, and also seem quite clear that rebooting restores the living persona to full everything. I am pleased to find, in the course of writing up this little anomaly, that option #2 actually gives Technomancers some well-deserved beefing up, and feels a little nicer flavor-wise. But then again, I could just be sleep-deprived. What do you think?
Full Version: Rebooting Technomancers
Well I think you are basing your statement off:
"After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix
with his living persona’s attributes fully restored."
The catch is a condition monitor is NOT an attribute.
A Persona's attributes are: (page 233)
Firewall
Response
Signal
System
This same page makes it very clear that A living persona does not have a condition monitor, but rather any matric damage applies as stun damage to the TM.
Rebooting is not a mystical 'heal' for a TM.
Right now there arent any 'drain' type abilties but I forsee unwired having them (aka attacks that can lower firewall/response/system/etc) .. Rebooting WOULD cure these damages...
But nothing but rest will cure the stun damage... (Well or an adepts stun cure powwer (the shiatsu massage one)
"After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix
with his living persona’s attributes fully restored."
The catch is a condition monitor is NOT an attribute.
A Persona's attributes are: (page 233)
Firewall
Response
Signal
System
This same page makes it very clear that A living persona does not have a condition monitor, but rather any matric damage applies as stun damage to the TM.
Rebooting is not a mystical 'heal' for a TM.
Right now there arent any 'drain' type abilties but I forsee unwired having them (aka attacks that can lower firewall/response/system/etc) .. Rebooting WOULD cure these damages...
But nothing but rest will cure the stun damage... (Well or an adepts stun cure powwer (the shiatsu massage one)
Hmm. But in that case, I could rewrite this sentence, from the SR4 rulebook:
"After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix with his living persona’s attributes fully restored."
To read thus:
"This does absolutely nothing whatsoever. See you when Unwired comes out, and we try to make technomancers actually worth playing at all!"
Pardon my French, but c'est plus lame.
"After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix with his living persona’s attributes fully restored."
To read thus:
"This does absolutely nothing whatsoever. See you when Unwired comes out, and we try to make technomancers actually worth playing at all!"
Pardon my French, but c'est plus lame.
True, it is a little lame, but not any more so than the fact that Small Unit Tactics is a specialization of the Leadership skill and I don't recall any specifics of how to use it in SR4. There are a number of places like this throughout the book. The errata added in rules for the instruction skill months after the initial release. It's not so bad to wait a few more to fill in some of the other gaps.
I’d like to comment on this, but I don’t really know what I’m talking about, so bear with me or skip this post – no flames, please.
I would try to justify a TMs damage from an attack as being any or all of:
Neuro-transmitter imbalance – too much, too many, not enough – whatever.
Action potential saturation – too pooped to pop.
Actual damage to the synaptic paths – the algorithm gets scrambled.
Brain-wave pattern/rhythm malfunction – similar to epileptic seizure.
Most of these effects could be restored within a timespan of a few hours – the body is a marvelously robust organism.
I would try to justify a TMs damage from an attack as being any or all of:
Neuro-transmitter imbalance – too much, too many, not enough – whatever.
Action potential saturation – too pooped to pop.
Actual damage to the synaptic paths – the algorithm gets scrambled.
Brain-wave pattern/rhythm malfunction – similar to epileptic seizure.
Most of these effects could be restored within a timespan of a few hours – the body is a marvelously robust organism.
| QUOTE (Thomas) |
| I’d like to comment on this, but I don’t really know what I’m talking about, so bear with me or skip this post – no flames, please. I would try to justify a TMs damage from an attack as being any or all of: Neuro-transmitter imbalance – too much, too many, not enough – whatever. Action potential saturation – too pooped to pop. Actual damage to the synaptic paths – the algorithm gets scrambled. Brain-wave pattern/rhythm malfunction – similar to epileptic seizure. Most of these effects could be restored within a timespan of a few hours – the body is a marvelously robust organism. |
It's true, the body can do some pretty ridiculous stuff. So one could argue that those things you listed, which pretty clearly represent stun damage from an attack program or fading, could be healed by rebooting. Damage from Black Hammer, of course, would be much more serious and shouldn't be healed by rebooting, and damage from Blackout (yes, in this example the technomancer is keeping track of where all his stun damage came from, including physical sources) could or could not be healed by rebooting, depending on how your GM feels. But really, I think I'd just rather give the technomancer a matrix condition monitor and let them be healed by Resonance-based Medics (sprites or complex forms). Any reason why that's a bad idea?
Not having sufficient experience in this area, I would defer to others as to whether it’s a bad idea or not.
| QUOTE (laughingowl) |
| Well I think you are basing your statement off: "After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix with his living persona’s attributes fully restored." The catch is a condition monitor is NOT an attribute. A Persona's attributes are: (page 233) Firewall Response Signal System This same page makes it very clear that A living persona does not have a condition monitor, but rather any matric damage applies as stun damage to the TM. Rebooting is not a mystical 'heal' for a TM. Right now there arent any 'drain' type abilties but I forsee unwired having them (aka attacks that can lower firewall/response/system/etc) .. Rebooting WOULD cure these damages... But nothing but rest will cure the stun damage... (Well or an adepts stun cure powwer (the shiatsu massage one) |
An arguement against this, is if the techno goes unconcious. After the required period passes, he's allowed to reconnect to the matrix, but how can he do so if his living persona is crashed? Logically, it has to fix the damage.
The damage to the attributes may be healed, but the stun damage may still be there.
Since a technomancer goes limp when he does anything VR (which is everything he does), I would have him ride around in a Crashcart Autodoc all the time. That way his autodoc can First Aid him everytime he takes damage. You shouldn't even need an autodoc because a medkit plus an agent/sprite plus a biomonitor plus a skinlink does the same thing. If a mage is nearby, or the TM has bought an Anchored Heal focus, the Heal spell can heal any damage he's taken too. With an autodoc/medkit + mage buddy, the TM can actually recover faster than a hacker's persona using Medic. Also, the TM could bunker in a medical facility for 200k which is a rating 10 medkit.
| QUOTE (Buster) |
| Since a technomancer goes limp when he does anything VR (which is everything he does), I would have him ride around in a Crashcart Autodoc all the time. That way his autodoc can First Aid him everytime he takes damage. |
This seems to be a common misconception, but technomancers can use AR same as anyone else. It's overlaid on their senses just like AR for anyone else. Technomancers can block it, but they find the stream of virtual chatter comforting.
A TM is far faster and more effective in VR, I don't see anyone using AR when they could use VR.
| QUOTE (Thomas) |
| I would try to justify a TMs damage from an attack as being any or all of: Neuro-transmitter imbalance – too much, too many, not enough – whatever. Action potential saturation – too pooped to pop. Actual damage to the synaptic paths – the algorithm gets scrambled. Brain-wave pattern/rhythm malfunction – similar to epileptic seizure. |
Actually, for not knowing what you're talking about your list is actually quite good.
I don't think my explanations will add anything to the debate about game mechanics, but...The principle excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain is glutamate. Too much glutamate stimulation (such as Hot sim VR) can actually cause an "excitotoxic effect" that kills neurons. Unfortunately, this would take more than a few days to "fix" in most cases. A neurotransmitter deficiency (in glutamate or aspartate) would seem to be more likely.
CNS neurons don't technically produce action potentials (that’s a neuromuscular junction thing). CNS potentials are graded potentials. Whether or not they fire is based on a competition between excitatory and inhibitory synaptic signals. In effect a "pooped" neuron would be one that receives overwhelming inhibitory signals, and basically shuts down. If you ask me that is a perfectly plausible defense mechanism for an over-worked brain.
Damage to synaptic paths would be long term damage, probably more in the realm of black hammer.
A seizure is another great explanation, though in this case we would be talking about transient "complex partial" seizures (epilepsy is a chronic recurring condition).
Another thing I would add to the list is a Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) which is basically a stroke that lasts less than 24 hours (although there is some debate about the definitions). These can be caused by intracranial bleeds in smaller vessels of the brain.
| QUOTE (Method) |
[...] CNS neurons don't technically produce action potentials (that’s a neuromuscular junction thing). CNS potentials are graded potentials. Whether or not they fire is based on a competition between excitatory and inhibitory synaptic signals. In effect a "pooped" neuron would be one that receives overwhelming inhibitory signals, and basically shuts down. If you ask me that is a perfectly plausible defense mechanism for an over-worked brain. [...] |
Meah.
I was thinking along the lines of ‘getting used to’ a stimulus – prolonged exposure increases the threshold. Intro. Psych. was many years ago.
| QUOTE (Gelare) |
| Hmm. But in that case, I could rewrite this sentence, from the SR4 rulebook: "After this recovery period has passed, the technomancer may reconnect to the Matrix with his living persona’s attributes fully restored." To read thus: "This does absolutely nothing whatsoever. See you when Unwired comes out, and we try to make technomancers actually worth playing at all!" Pardon my French, but c'est plus lame. |
Guess you might as well then drop the entire:
| QUOTE |
| Access to the Resonance Realms Upon the technomancer’s fi rst submersion, he fi nds his way to the secret resonance realms tucked away in the folds and corners of the Matrix. Steeped in rumor and speculation, these realms are known only to submersed technomancers—and perhaps sprites and other creatures of computer consciousness. Th ough they are accessed by secret pathways within the Matrix, in truth no one is sure exactly where these realms lie. |
Also then since nothing in the BBB gives anything about this.
The main book is full of references to things to come...
That either your GM has to make rules for .... or do not exist until future products come out.
As written the rules very specifically state your attributes get reset to full on a reboot... (for a TM) which admitedly is sort of worthless (in a RAW) campaign as of right now nothing can effect those attributes.
However as the rules for 'posions' already exist.... If I was playing a hacker (or TM) heavy campaign (more then likely a 1 on 1), I would very likely adapt the posion rules very easily into additional effects that 'attack' programs could be coded with to be resisted.
Furthermore while the 'statement' about 'restoring attributes' has no effect at present, there are several other things that require the TM to sever their connection from the matric and reboot.... so the rules to reboot do not do 'nothing'
| QUOTE |
This does absolutely nothing whatsoever. See you when Unwired comes out, and we try to make technomancers actually worth playing at all! |
While that may be your opion, and you are entitled to it....
The TM I ran from release until about 3 months ago, was great fun, was very useful, and wasn't overly house rules. (though will admit towards the end was very high karma)
Alice Inside (AI) or Alice to her friends, even from creation was very useful. True she was more like an old school decker, and very weak physically (though not complete cripple)
TMs are differnt, its like saying a conjurer is 'weak' compared to a sorcerer. Sure the sorcerer if caught 'unprepared' is going to own the conjurer (unprepared).
However, the conjurer that plans for a battle with a sorcerer is going to mop the floor with the sorcerer while, drinking tea at the needle.
TMs are much the same way. They rely alot more on preperation the improvisation, but with sprites ready, they can own any sytem out there, and physically they can be quite impress. Either through diagnosis (helping with using devices) and/or drones as their physical threat.
Sure TMs are written are missing three quarters of their abilities.. but then deckers (sorry hackers) as written are missing about half of their abilities
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