Full Version: Farewell...
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Sep 7 2007, 01:59 AM) |
| I've already acknowledged that one can and some times does lead to the other. You're suggesting, assuming that I'm understanding you properly, that we infact shouldn't say anything, just wait until it gets right to the point of sending PM warnings. Then we've got our selves right back to square one, where we have a user uspet about received a PM warning. So we don't say anything in the thread, right up until we have to warn someone. Seems to me that would lead to a lot of people getting uspet that they were given a PM warning out of the blue. Not helpful obviously. |
Yes, wait and PM that they have went to far. It takes out your guess work that they may intend going too far. Especially when inserted publicly in the thread. Then the entire community has to second guess where the line is moving.
| QUOTE | ||
If you recall the circumstances, I was asking you if you had an issue with me moving a thread of yours. Not doing it, but asking. That was what prompted you to write back with a very long PM about my being a nazi. I still feel you over reacted. I hadn't intended to bring it up. Oh well. |
Oh well is right. Why the hell ask me if I did not want or see the point in it being moved if it was going to get moved anyway? Or was that concerning another thread that got moved, also I felt inappropriately?
(I will also relate this to how in US history the government has moved tribes, or relocated them to less desirable real estate. A great number of the tribals usually perished during the move. Related to my moved threads here on DS, they too have perished after the move.)
| QUOTE |
| I was equally confused when you suggested moving the drop bear thread, then got upset when I agreed. |
Because I felt it was on topic even less than what you were claiming my thread was. I got upset because it was a bit of censorship, it looked like you were way too easily influenced by frivolous suggestions, and because I did not think either thread merited being moved.
If you want to shut down a thread, look how I was attacked in the Drop Bear thread. Maybe metaphorically, but the decisiveness made me wonder who I had pissed off and if some people were taking the opportunity to artfully flame me.
This is conjecture and second guessing and I did not ask that the thread be locked or anyone reprimand over it, but again where do you draw the line? I would as soon see the line brought to attention after it has been crossed, then everyone can see where the line is.
| QUOTE |
| You said the same thing then about waiting a few more months and see who else felt persecuted. Here you are again, asking the same. Now I can understand if you don't agree with my mod style, or others here. I can understand being upset about knasser leaving. I am as well. But again, this is over something incredibly petty. Someone called someone a bad name. Someone was told not to. Someone decided they didn't like that and left. This is not exactly a situation on scale with the holocaust. |
And Dumpshock is not on the scale of the world. But I referenced historical incidents that I see being repeated on a smaller scale here. There is the saying those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I am trying to figure out if you are just repeating history or if you are using what you learned from history and implementing it in ways to bring DS around to your view of what it should be.
| QUOTE | ||
They are reminders of the ToS. That's it. It makes much more sense to me to let someone know they're about to break a rule for using the site, then wait for them to do it. Would you rather just be given a ticket, or pulled over for speeding and let go with a warning? |
That's the problem though, in both your mod style and your analogy you are equalizing the potential to do something wrong with in fact doing something wrong. No one has sped, but you have been nice enough to let them go with a warning.
Real world - if a police officer pulled me over because I was driving too close to the white line (or something else bogus that was not an crime) I would be irate. I would also assume they pulled me over to try to find something that was actually criminal.
| QUOTE |
| You were the one just asking us to enforce the rules on Doc weren't you? |
Yes, I did. Read the thread. Count how many times he repeats his position - just in that thread, as apparently it was stated elsewhere a few times. Count how many people said enough is enough. Count how many times he tried to catch Synner in a lie. Way before Knasser ever entered the discussion it was apparent nobody was going to change their position. A simple in thread We may as well agree to disagree could have settled the derailment.
Also, since you decided to PM Knasser with whatever warning, I think the guy provoking him and several other people, Doctor Funkenstein, should have gotten a similar warning.
Really, someone that Doctor Funkenstein trusts as a friend should probably give him friendly PM reminders when he starts going off. Like I said, I have heard him admit he knows he does it but doesn't always catch himself. The friend could help keep him positively contributing.
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Also, since you decided to PM Knasser with whatever warning, I think the guy provoking him and several other people, Doctor Funkenstein, should have gotten a similar warning. |
And again, how do you know he didn't? He just isn't whining about it.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| And again, how do you know he didn't? He just isn't whining about it. |
I truly enjoyed knasser's posts, but as the saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. I think that whatever warning knasser received, it was deserved. There has to be rules, and if you don't like them, fine, leave.
| QUOTE (Fortune @ Sep 7 2007, 03:44 AM) | ||
And again, how do you know he didn't? He just isn't whining about it. |
Kind of pulled out from the overall context of my post...
I do not think either should have gotten PMed.
If one deserves a PM, so does the other.
I do not know on way or the other. I didn't PM him anything about it and he has not felt the need to PM me.
Are you implying I'm a whiner? Where's that name calling line?
If I am indeed whining, it is because of the many and varied moderator actions that keep coming to light. I believe you had a say about fixing posts. Stuff like that which seem to be killing this place for anything but the
| QUOTE (MITJA3000+) |
| I truly enjoyed knasser's posts, but as the saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. I think that whatever warning knasser received, it was deserved. There has to be rules, and if you don't like them, fine, leave. |
I guess you could take the saying that way, but I figured it related to the interaction between Doc and Knasser and taking each others heat or getting out. Now it seems there are too many cooks in the kitchen. It will soon get too hot and everyone will burn.
I promised myself that I'd stay out of this thread, but it's already doing what Knasser set it out to do so why not?
1. In the thread in question, I did nothing to "provoke" him. Didn't even mention his name or anything else; was just going on about how stupid having cybergenitalia was when more important information was cut from the book. Then, out of nowhere, he came flailing in with a rant and the insult. Hell, my only response was a "thanks for proving my point" in regards to the whole "people only respond to the cocks/tits part of the posts rather than the actual point." So... yeah. Whatever.
2. Regarding the warnings moderators give, it's unfair to say they're doing it inapproprately or using an example of them doing it if you toe the line. A more apt example would be if a moderator saw you stumbling out of a pub (so drunk you can barely stand let alone walk in a straight line), somehow make it to your car, spend ten minutes trying to get the key in the lock, fall inside, spend another ten minutes trying to hook up the seatbelt, another twenty trying to figure out how the key fits in the ignition, and then finally turning the ignition on. Then the moderator stops in and is all, "Dude, you don't wanna do that. You'll totally get arrested or worse."
I'm pretty stoned on pain killers at the moment after some outpatient surgery, so I'mma be quiet now. But just wanted to say those two things at least.
1. In the thread in question, I did nothing to "provoke" him. Didn't even mention his name or anything else; was just going on about how stupid having cybergenitalia was when more important information was cut from the book. Then, out of nowhere, he came flailing in with a rant and the insult. Hell, my only response was a "thanks for proving my point" in regards to the whole "people only respond to the cocks/tits part of the posts rather than the actual point." So... yeah. Whatever.
2. Regarding the warnings moderators give, it's unfair to say they're doing it inapproprately or using an example of them doing it if you toe the line. A more apt example would be if a moderator saw you stumbling out of a pub (so drunk you can barely stand let alone walk in a straight line), somehow make it to your car, spend ten minutes trying to get the key in the lock, fall inside, spend another ten minutes trying to hook up the seatbelt, another twenty trying to figure out how the key fits in the ignition, and then finally turning the ignition on. Then the moderator stops in and is all, "Dude, you don't wanna do that. You'll totally get arrested or worse."
I'm pretty stoned on pain killers at the moment after some outpatient surgery, so I'mma be quiet now. But just wanted to say those two things at least.
| QUOTE (tisoz @ Sep 7 2007, 06:25 PM) |
| Kind of pulled out from the overall context of my post... |
It was the only part I cared to comment on.
| QUOTE |
| Are you implying I'm a whiner? |
Not at all. I don't know quite how you would get that. Did you get a warning PM and then create a thread simply to garner sympathy? If not, then I couldn't possibly have been referring to you, could it?
What you have done is jumped gleefully into the thread with both feet to stir shit with wild abandon, but that isn't my problem.
Alright. Give me a moment to word this right.
Knasser and Doc had some words on a post. Knasser made a no-no and was politley asked by a mod not to do it again, as he should have. As well as doc. Knasser decides hes being censored so he leaves. Than a bunch of bored people decided to wage war over it. Sound stupid yet? Well It looks that way from here.
For starters, the mods do there jobs, and well. They run the sight, they make sure rules are being followed, but not too strictly, and they keep order here so we can all enjoy each others opinions and dumpshock in all its glory. If Knasser thinks hes being "censored" and wants to leave, fine. Good Riddence. You annoyed the hell out of me anyway. If you truly beleive you're being censored, come to Utah. THATS censorship.
tisoz- Are you actually comparing threads on dumpshock to the Holocaust and Natives dying in a relocation? F&T3.0 is right, you HAVE overreacted. This is a forum site, not real life. Unless this is your real life, than I just pity you. Grow up bud.
And as for everyone else mod-bashing, get all the dictionary's you want, use all the biggest words you can think of to justify something that doesnt even matter. Its all stupid, and heresay. Grow up, get back to enjoying each others oppinions, and lets all move on with our lives, eh?
Knasser and Doc had some words on a post. Knasser made a no-no and was politley asked by a mod not to do it again, as he should have. As well as doc. Knasser decides hes being censored so he leaves. Than a bunch of bored people decided to wage war over it. Sound stupid yet? Well It looks that way from here.
For starters, the mods do there jobs, and well. They run the sight, they make sure rules are being followed, but not too strictly, and they keep order here so we can all enjoy each others opinions and dumpshock in all its glory. If Knasser thinks hes being "censored" and wants to leave, fine. Good Riddence. You annoyed the hell out of me anyway. If you truly beleive you're being censored, come to Utah. THATS censorship.
tisoz- Are you actually comparing threads on dumpshock to the Holocaust and Natives dying in a relocation? F&T3.0 is right, you HAVE overreacted. This is a forum site, not real life. Unless this is your real life, than I just pity you. Grow up bud.
And as for everyone else mod-bashing, get all the dictionary's you want, use all the biggest words you can think of to justify something that doesnt even matter. Its all stupid, and heresay. Grow up, get back to enjoying each others oppinions, and lets all move on with our lives, eh?
I may have started a thread or two after some moderator actions, so I guess I'm a whiner. I jumped in because I dislike the direction the moderation has taken. And, as mfb referred to in another thread, frustration with things in RL tend to lead to angry posts. So I will try to shut up about this as best I can manage.
I managed that poorly.
| QUOTE (SinN @ Sep 7 2007, 05:04 AM) |
| tisoz- Are you actually comparing threads on dumpshock to the Holocaust and Natives dying in a relocation? F&T3.0 is right, you HAVE overreacted. |
How, exactly, is seeing similar trends and tactics overreacting? Comparing the scope of events is overreacting and I do not believe I ever said or implied any such thing.
| QUOTE |
| This is a forum |
The discussion going on here is real. It is not imaginary, nor is it fictional. I am left to believe that you are bashing me for your entertainment, or your amusement as it is not real and no one here has real feelings?
| QUOTE |
| Unless this is your real life, than I just pity you. Grow up bud. |
This sounds like a violation of the Terms of Service as name calling and a personal attack.
Just curious, but SinN, what is your relationship to fistandantilus3.0?
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| I managed that poorly. |
LMAO! At least you're honest.
This is an awful fucking lot of drama over someone getting a warning PM, not even a time out or a banned account or anything else. Just a PM.
I like Knasser, don't get me wrong. I've had my share of disagreements with the mods in the past (even the recent past), and I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy when I think about Doc Funkenstein, most of the time, either -- but Knasser called Doc a dick (no matter how cutely or innocently he tried to phrase it), and then got asked not to do it again. That's all that happened.
Everything that's happening past that is no one's fault but Knasser's. He didn't get kicked off, and moderator action did not cause him to leave (if he is, in fact, still leaving despite the new shrine to him and the protests in the streets and all that). The chip on his shoulder about being "censored" caused him to leave, if anything did, and that's a private issue he's got (which has nothing to actually do with the Terms of Service, following them, or the moderating style on Dumpshock). It's like a cop saw a car speeding, flashed his lights for a second to show the driver he was there, but let the driver keep going without getting a ticket or even getting pulled over -- and then the imaginary driver of that imaginary car went home and shot himself over it, and the community is rallying with cries of "ZOMG teh cops killed somboddy!!!!"
It doesn't really matter what deep-rooted personal issues he has with censorship, he agreed to the Terms of Service when he made an account and he didn't even get a ban (temporary or otherwise) for violating them. Now he's stirring shit up from beyond the grave, and has people marching around with their fists in the air, rambling about the Holocaust and getting ready to crank up some Rage Against The Machine or something, 'cause The Man's got them down and they aren't gonna take it any more.
Seriously, people. Christ. It was a PM warning, not the mods storming his house and murdering his family. Calm down. Comparing a PM to the Holocaust or reservations/relocations is just fucking ridiculous, and insulting to those who did suffer under oppressive regimes. You're talking about a PM that was sent internet message board, and not a very special one. Come on. You're smarter than this.
I like Knasser, don't get me wrong. I've had my share of disagreements with the mods in the past (even the recent past), and I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy when I think about Doc Funkenstein, most of the time, either -- but Knasser called Doc a dick (no matter how cutely or innocently he tried to phrase it), and then got asked not to do it again. That's all that happened.
Everything that's happening past that is no one's fault but Knasser's. He didn't get kicked off, and moderator action did not cause him to leave (if he is, in fact, still leaving despite the new shrine to him and the protests in the streets and all that). The chip on his shoulder about being "censored" caused him to leave, if anything did, and that's a private issue he's got (which has nothing to actually do with the Terms of Service, following them, or the moderating style on Dumpshock). It's like a cop saw a car speeding, flashed his lights for a second to show the driver he was there, but let the driver keep going without getting a ticket or even getting pulled over -- and then the imaginary driver of that imaginary car went home and shot himself over it, and the community is rallying with cries of "ZOMG teh cops killed somboddy!!!!"
It doesn't really matter what deep-rooted personal issues he has with censorship, he agreed to the Terms of Service when he made an account and he didn't even get a ban (temporary or otherwise) for violating them. Now he's stirring shit up from beyond the grave, and has people marching around with their fists in the air, rambling about the Holocaust and getting ready to crank up some Rage Against The Machine or something, 'cause The Man's got them down and they aren't gonna take it any more.
Seriously, people. Christ. It was a PM warning, not the mods storming his house and murdering his family. Calm down. Comparing a PM to the Holocaust or reservations/relocations is just fucking ridiculous, and insulting to those who did suffer under oppressive regimes. You're talking about a PM that was sent internet message board, and not a very special one. Come on. You're smarter than this.
I 
Critias. (Still riding the pain killer high. Shut up.)
Critias. (Still riding the pain killer high. Shut up.)
| QUOTE |
| "ZOMG teh cops killed somboddy!!!!" |
Critias...I...
I think I love you.
Best. Post. Evar.
You WIN teh internets debate!
EDIT FOR CONTENT:
Also, I have to pitch in with a similar, "I like reading Doc's and Knassers stuff, though I've never been caught up in the proverbial sniping that apparently goes on between them over peni...penises? Penussses? Whatever. Shame that Knasser got upset. Would have liked to read more. So...darn."
As to the moderator issue, just see my praise and adoration of Critias' excellent post to see where I stand on that.
"So long...farewell...auf wiedersehen, good night. Good byyyyye...good byyyyyyye....good byyyyyyyyyyye...."
Critias, you made my day - great post!
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy when I think about Doc Funkenstein, most of the time, either |
What about cyber-genitalia?
I mean, what's all this about cyber-genitalia?
Check the "Augmentation Review"-thread and you'll know it...
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| A more apt example would be if a moderator saw you stumbling out of a pub (so drunk you can barely stand let alone walk in a straight line), somehow make it to your car, spend ten minutes trying to get the key in the lock, fall inside, spend another ten minutes trying to hook up the seatbelt, another twenty trying to figure out how the key fits in the ignition, and then finally turning the ignition on. Then the moderator stops in and is all, "Dude, you don't wanna do that. You'll totally get arrested or worse." |
As a complete and total tangent, as I understand it you are legally drunk driving as soon as the vehicle is on. You don't actually have to move. So someone sitting in a parking lot with the car idling and listening to the radio while they wait to sober up can get busted for drunk driving.
Of course, it's just something I heard, so it's probably BS anyway.
Oh I'm sorry, did I derail an important thread? Let me contribute to the current topic: Critias, nice post.
*dies with laughter* Thank you Critias.
I needed to laugh as hard as I did. Which was "hard enough I thought I was going to pee".
I needed to laugh as hard as I did. Which was "hard enough I thought I was going to pee".
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Just curious, but SinN, what is your relationship to fistandantilus3.0? |
Just a good friend. The one who showed me dumpshock and shadowrun and such. Used to live near me, now lives elsewhere. We still talk. Good guy.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Sep 7 2007, 11:25 AM) |
| As a complete and total tangent, as I understand it you are legally drunk driving as soon as the vehicle is on. You don't actually have to move. So someone sitting in a parking lot with the car idling and listening to the radio while they wait to sober up can get busted for drunk driving. Of course, it's just something I heard, so it's probably BS anyway. |
According to Canada's Criminal Code:
Operation while impaired
253. Every one commits an offence who operates a motor vehicle or vessel or operates or assists in the operation of an aircraft or of railway equipment or has the care or control of a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment, whether it is in motion or not.
Apperently, here in Canada, someone is considered to 'have the care or control' of a motor vehicle if they're sitting in the driver's seat. So you can be arrested for DUI if you're sitting in the driver's seat of your car even if it's not started yet.
So, if you're sleeping off the alcohol, sleep in the backseat.
Getting back on topic, I'm sad that Knasser is leaving, but I feel that he's overreacting a tad.
PS: I knew working at a law firm would come in handy eventually.
| QUOTE (Unarmed) |
| PS: I knew working at a law firm would come in handy eventually. |
Yeah who knew we'd need a lawyer to settle an argument on dumpshock?
| QUOTE (SinN) | ||
Yeah who knew we'd need a lawyer to settle an argument on dumpshock? |
To be fair, I am not actually a lawyer, just a clerk. I don't want anyone thinking that I'm more important than I actually am, or anything...
| QUOTE (Unarmed) | ||||
To be fair, I am not actually a lawyer, just a clerk. I don't want anyone thinking that I'm more important than I actually am, or anything... |
AH cmon! I'm sure there's a ruleslawyer in you deep somewhere
We don't deny it
| QUOTE (FriendoftheDork) |
| AH cmon! I'm sure there's a ruleslawyer in you deep somewhere We don't deny it |
Well yeah, I guess I'm a lawyer in that kind of way, just not in the "I passed the bar exam" kinda way.
| QUOTE (Unarmed) |
| Well yeah, I guess I'm a lawyer in that kind of way, just not in the "I passed the bar exam" kinda way. |
I didnt think lawyers had to pass those now a days. Cant tell anyway.
Cheers Knasser! Hopefully you'll come back after awhile, when cooler heads can prevail. If not, keep up your writing and I'll look for updates on your website.
| QUOTE (SinN) | ||
I didnt think lawyers had to pass those now a days. Cant tell anyway. |
Really? Encountered many incompetent lawyers?
As for drunk driving, if you're over the limit stay out of the car or your life can be ruined by the po-po.
As for Knasser, I sincerely hope you're lured back into this tangled web of clashing imaginations by the release of Arsenal in a few months.
Legal Beagle out.
| QUOTE (Unarmed) | ||
Well yeah, I guess I'm a lawyer in that kind of way, just not in the "I passed the bar exam" kinda way. |
...when I lived back in South Milwaukee, I passed many bar exams in my time
[thinking...]...letsee go in this one? Understand the Jake's on & he's generous with the pours.
...nah Kowalski's down the block has a couple bowling alleys in the cellar and shuffleboard...and Amy's tending bar tonight
...yaderhey
Knasser, I would say sorry to see you go but that is exactly what you want people to say to get satisfaction for your decision. I have enjoyed your site and hope you keep it up. However, this world is not perfect so you just have to deal with it. The Hawaiians have it right, Hang Loose Bra. Life is too short.
You guys don't know censorship until you've been to... well, most countries around where I live.
Maybe that's one reason I've been able to keep a clean sheet... never thought living in a censored-nanny state could help keep me outta trouble...
Maybe that's one reason I've been able to keep a clean sheet... never thought living in a censored-nanny state could help keep me outta trouble...
| QUOTE |
| Hang Loose Bra |
Cool. Does it come in push-up versions?
Just a wild guess, but judging from knasser's full name (Khadim Nasser) he may be Egyptian in origin. If so, it would go a long way towards explaining why he reacted so strongly to the mod's warning.
Let's not start making generalizations and wild guess about people and their lives based on their nationalties ok.
Ironic that after all this, this is the first mod post in this thread.
Ironic that after all this, this is the first mod post in this thread.
| QUOTE (Zhan Shi @ Sep 8 2007, 03:21 PM) |
| Just a wild guess, but judging from knasser's full name (Khadim Nasser) he may be Egyptian in origin. If so, it would go a long way towards explaining why he reacted so strongly to the mod's warning. |
Bullshit!
Each and every one of us has to deal with all kinds of assorted crap on a day-to-day basis, and people don't need to start being immune from rules because of race or religion or place of birth ... or even the etymology of their name.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I just meant that Egypt has a government which is notoriously repressive of dissent. And I don't think he should be exempt from TOS. I was not trying to insult anyone, so if was taken that way, I apologise.
Not trying to jump down your throat Zhan. But that's the sort of thing that easily gets people riled, and has been very nasty numerous times before.
Well I feel this topic has been discussed to satisfaction... thing is if this forum was really heavilly censored this thread would either be locked long ago and/or heavily modified to present a only viewpoints favoring dumpshock mods
| QUOTE (Blade) |
| It's in the Augmentation review thread. |
No wonder I couldn't find it. Thanks Blade.
Although I understand Knasser's decision, I do think he is over-reacting just a tad.
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