It's vanity, I know, but I'm just posting a thread to say "goodbye."

I'm being told off by the mods now for "making personal attacks." I have never, ever, appreciated being told what I can and cannot say and have, once before, warned the moderators that I wont tolerate being told what I can and cannot say.

I have half of an adventure module written, so I will post here once more when it is done, to let people know it's up, but other than that, I'm just going to wish you all (everyone) happy gaming.

Thank you to all for much interesting and stimulating debate and peace be with you.

Regards,

-Khadim Nasser.

el suck. peace, man.

It's all about style, habibi. Think of how Croup responded. But godspeed. Cool site, BTW.

Noooooo! Just have a couple gallons of Bavarian Hafeweizen and come back in the morning, you'll forget the whole thing.

I agree; it's not worth leaving the site over. Speaking as a mod, our goal is never to anger those we PM, just to remind them that they could be approaching a line that we hope they don't cross.

knasser, I respect your choice to exit but let me say a few things before you leave...

While I don't always agree with your take on any given subject, I do enjoy and respect the time you take to explain your viewpoint. There's a few times I've seen you post something insightful enough that I've changed my opinion on an interpretation.

That is something special to me. I sincerely doubt that I'm the only one who has had the same happen to themselves.

Some people don't agree with you. Big deal. Let them disagree. You are still right... in your game. Just like they are in their game. That said, some people tend to forget that in their railing about some subject near and dear to their over-chromed hearts.

Unfortunately, we're not all Dunkelzahns and can't Divine for crap to figure out the best way. I hope you do reconsider your decision to leave and continue to grace us with your input. You've got this sometime player & GM's attention.

Thanks!

Sorry to see ya go Khadim. Seriously hope you reconsider. Don't forget to stay in touch.

I haven't been here long enough to know you, but the few posts I have seen from you have been reasonable and educational. If you've come into conflikt, that's a shame but I would hope you would stay and just try to avoid that conflict.

Still you have to respect the rules of a forum, and if it forbids certain things you can either accept that or do what you do now - leave. I hope you don't but if you really can't stand it... too bad.

Happy gaming to you too, hope you can still lurk here at least

Personally, having read the thread which started this all, I don't think you should leave. I do think you called someone on bullshit, and I think that if you got modslapped for it, then the other party deserves twice as bad. Hell, given the situation, I think you handled it with grace and decorum. In a similar situation, I was much ruder to him.

Mods, I feel that if your policy has driven off this poster, and yet leaves Doc Funk's crusade against cybergenitalia untouched, then you should seriously rethink your policies. If telling another poster that their arguments are unsound and their motivations are questionable constitutes a personal attack, how can we have a debate at all?

Knasser,

I refrained from making a comment I wished to make in that thread, more of a tongue and cheek. But there is a back history regarding that person, I refrained but watched.

I found your comments to be tasteful and fairly tactful under the conditions in that thread.

I have enjoyed your comments/statements, do what you feel you must do.

Thanks

WearzManySkins

While I am sad to see K go, there are forum rules and the mods interpret and enforce these rules.

Depends upon the background he mentioned.

SWAGed

Someone who has been victimized by Censorship, tend to be very touchy about Censorship, in any form.

Those who have never been victimized by censorship, can not get a "handle" on it.

It is like a sighted person(Censored) trying to describe the color blue to a unsighted person(uncensored) who has never had sight.

WMS

Knasser:

Won't say we have always seen eye to eye... but will be sorry to see you go...

Not knowing the full details.. will say I am not a fan of censorship.. but will also remind, it is polite to respect others wishes in their house...

It aint censorship, if somebody says, please don't smoke... or please don't use vulgairty in my house...

Now if you do feel they are being unrealistic / fair /etc you certainly have to do what you feel is right....

Though sometimes it is worth saying, sorry I abused your (the mods) hospitality... won't say I am sorry or apologize to the 'other person', but I did break the tranquality of your house... I will try not to do it again...

Several have expressed regrets at seeing you go... and the fact you posted a goodbye, I assume you have some regrets.. I would ask is putting up with somebody's rules for their house, worth the people you can talk to at their house...

While I firmly belive I have the right to sit around my house without clothes and drink tea, I wouldn't dream of going to the local coffee shop and doing the same.... altough at time I am very likely inclined to go to the shop, not for the dirnk (which I could have at home) but for the people there...


Either way best of luck...

From a personal greedy point of view, hope you reconsider and come back... while we haven't always agreed, two people passionate about something really agree on everything... and the thought / debate process has always been enlightening and enertaining.

/salute

Bwah hwah hwah, the modding here is so gentle. Try bullshido.net for a good time.

First: I'm not certain how long this thread will be left open, or at least in this forum, given that it is off topic and likely to incite the sort of behavior that causes moderator action. I'll let the rest of the administration decide, as I'm really biased against "goodbye" threads.

Next: This post *will not* be used to bash Knasser or point fingers at other users who individuals feel should be moderated/punished. Consider this a general warning.

<personal response>

OK, moderation is done by judgement instead of policy. OK then. I know there are guidelines, even though whenever I click on the link I get a blank page. The same thing happens when I try to PM someone, so my research and response angles are limited. If anyone has any advice on how to fix these issues, I would be greatly appreciative, because I feel the need to use the PM function.

Click on the "0 new messages" link in the top right of the page. Then use "Compose Message".

PP - The Guidelines and Terms of Service are up, they're just not accessible at the moment, and won't be until Adam is able to update the software. There are new ToS in the drafts, mostly with some more thought out meaning to clear up confusion, with a number of recent issues specifically addressed.

As for this situation, it comes down to something very simple. Knasser called somone a dick. Not exactly the end of the world. But something worth a PM warning. The warning was straight forward. Along the lines of ' you did x, don't do x again'. There was no "telling off" or "mod smack". There are rules here,users are expected to follow them. I'll add just that suspension or anything else along those lines never came up anywhere in this, because frankly, it's an insult. It's not that big of deal.

Personally I'd like Knasser to stick around. I've expressed as much already to him. Frankly I'm suprised at the reaction, but admittedly I don't know whatever Knasser has in his background.

Knasser,

It is sad to see you go. I just recently joined the DS forums after lurking for a long while... It is so hard to find good content, good opinions, reasonable and thoughtful people on the internet, much less in a forum. I rarely take an interest in much of anything a particular forum go'er says, but I always read your posts carefully. Few are worth my time, frankly; and yours always are.

I do hope that you allow some perspective to germinate, fester, if you will, in due time. Forums boil down to the core users that provide content and personality and it would be a serious blow to this one if you were to bow out. I have no read the posts in question and have absolutely no investment in whatever argument ensued. I just want to be able to come here and read clever, well thought out commentary mixed with excellent game content.

- der menkey

Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
~ Ernest Hemmingway

Knasser - I don't really know you, but you make really good points revealing a thorough understanding of the game we all love. You have on at least one occasion disagreed with me and in doing so largely won me over to your way of thinking.

Also, some of the things you have posted/provided have been incredibly useful.

Whether you leave the site is up to you, but the cost seems much greater than the benefit.

Knasser, in the short time I've been around these forums I've noticed you're one of the more helpful, informative people around. It sounds like in this whole affair there are one or more parties at fault, but whether you are one of them is irrelevant; you are clearly a valued, contributing member to this community, and I, along with plenty of regular users, admins, and whoever hacked past the IC, hope that you stay. If you insist you've been wronged too strongly to remain, then happy travels to you, and watch out in the shadows, omae.

Knasser, I don't know what went on here (been gone the past couple of days), but I think I have a fair idea already just from this thread. I would say more, but...... Having recently had similar issues, I must say that I am very sorry to see you go especially under such circumstances though I totally understand your decision (I contemplated the same, save for the graciousness of the mod staff - two in specific - I would have). I enjoy your take on the game and your insights. In my opinion, you have more than earned your place here my friend.

Sorry to hear you considering leaving. You are one of the newer members that contributed often and in a positive fashion to the forums.

Perhaps take a few months off and come back and visit?
It's kind of amusing to me that when I once considered leaving, all I got was a single comment about a door and my ass. Can you not feel the friendship? Is it fair to the friends you have made?

for fear of opening a can of worms, what did i miss?

It's in the Augmentation review thread.

Long story short : knasser ended up in an argument with Doc Funk about the penile implant. One of his post ended with a witty remark which could be considered as a personal attack.
So he got a PM from the mods telling him that he sould not say such things.
Since knasser seems to have a strong distate for censorship (for personal historical reasons) and feels that such a thing is censorship, he decided to leave.

@knasser: I liked your posts. When debating an issue, I found your posts constructive and free of ad-hoc arguments and other 'I know better than you' attitude, even if I sometimes didn't agree with your point of view.
Have fun!

I heartily applaud your impartial summation of the incident.

thanks for the info blade.

knasser. its only sensorship if they where to block you from the site without warning, or hell maybe even erasing you whole post history...

being told your may be stepping on some toes (some toes i do believe i have wanted to step on at times myself) is nothing.

but then i guess i have not seen the level of sensorship that you may have.

anyways, dumpshock is one of those places where you need a thick skin to survive, even if it seems to have taken a dive for the worse lately...

You need more than a thick skin. You need Full Body Armor with Non-conductive 6 and Edge. Everyone should have more Edge.

bah, who needs edge, i have a mental reality distortion field

Let me start off with the legalize: The following is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the views of dumpshock nor the other moderators

<personal opinion>
According to the strictest definition of the word censorship, Nassar was in fact censored:
An expression of strong disapproval or harsh criticism [American Heritage Dictionary]

That said, for a community to function there must be a level of decorum. A reasonable level of civility in order to maintain function and process. To me, there is good censorship and bad censorship. This community, this board, has a pretty clear one in regards to no personal attacks. In the past few weeks, I have seen several people given suspensions from Dumpshock for violating that tenant and seen others given warnings [ or censored as defined above ]. Following those moderator interventions I have also seen some of the most petty, immature responses to those interventions. I have also seen people rise above and recognize the price of their continued negative action to the community as a whole. Seen them grasp the thankless job that it is to be the moderators and to try maintain that civility.

If you believe that unfettered freedom of speech is of higher moral value than civilized debate then I wish you well. I applaud your standing by your beliefs to the point of separating from the community and wish you well in finding a like community to collaborate with.

I do however believe that none of the moderators have acted out of any desire to inhibit free thought, nor have they moderated simply to flaunt their authority, instead acting with the health of the community as their guiding principle. As Aristotle noted earlier, there is a great deal of discussion that occurs around each moderator interaction and they are not taken lightly.

I would ask any Dumpshock user who has been or ever does get a moderator intervention to look at the situation with what my sensei calls strict eyes. Remove your personal feelings from the situation and view your and actions and reactions from the perspective of others. Did you come across as you wanted? In the heat of the moment were you really trying to get a rise out of the person? Did your post/PM/etc say what you wanted it to say or was the message lost due to one phrase, one sentence, one paragraph not truly conveying your thoughts as you intended?
</personal opinion>

I'd rather you stay, knasser. Like others, whether I have agreed with you or not, your posts were always worth my time reading...

Based on the issue at hand, I don't think its a big enough deal to leave. You called someone a name. No one is supposed to do that on this forum. So, you were warned and hopefully you, or anyone else, won't do it again.

knasser, your point of view will be severely missed.
Consider; the people who will be most negatively affected by your leaving are you and the people who will miss your opinions, and I don't think that's your desired effect.
I understand that you're upset, but I hope that when the dust settles you come back.
If not, thanks for all your time and opinions.

Knasser, whilst I agree with what you posted it did greatly appear that you were basically calling him a dick. Subtle or not you know there are rules against personal attacks. Not that I haven't seen funkenstein out of line numerous times as well. I will miss your insight and opinion, and I hope you reconsider leaving.

Actually, he did not specifically call anyone a Dick. I think he said dicks will sometime post to forums. I agree, there was a strong implication of aiming it at someone, and being familiar with the Doc and similar situations, the likelihood of the situation deteriorating did merit some moderator intervention.

@ Knasser. At least it was apparent what you were being asked to refrain from. My first couple of PM warnings, years ago, had me going WTF? I honestly think one was influenced by Pistons closeness to the H&K faction, if that helps date it. At least the current moderator activity does not seem to involve personalities.

Which is all to say, Knasser, you are not the only person to get warning PMs, or been the victim of moderator intervention. I am sure I am not the only person to get angry over some mod activity, or to think the mods had went beyond reason in some case.

But until there is a better, livelier place to discuss and argue over this game we enjoy, one has to put up with the associated negatives.

Victim - synonyms I may have used - target, recipient, object.

Associated negatives - posters one could usually do without; silly, crazy, rude, stupid posts; overly stringent moderation.

I am sure everyone has their own opinion on relativity of 'associated negatives'. In Knasser's case, it was implied that some posters are dicks. He did not even link it to the poster he was in a discussion with and getting no where. I do not know what exactly the PM warning was. It sounds like it was a bit pre-emptive, heading off what was likely to become a flame. Hopefully, the PM reflected this state, and did not assume facts that had yet to occur. IMO, Knasser was toeing the acceptability line, but had yet to cross it, and so I also believe he was justified in feeling unduly/unjustly censored.

I have asked for where the line is drawn. I have not gotten an exact reply, more of an it's an art not a science thing. But since the comment was not directed at anyone, or more accurately, it was directed at many un-named posters, Knasser's comment seems to fall in the artful category that no one but Dicks should be offended by.

I'm not sure what makes people think Doc Funk isn't receiving warnings or even the occasional time-out. Just because he doesn't start a thread about it every time he gets one doesn't mean it isn't happening, fellas.

I've already acknowledged that one can and some times does lead to the other. You're suggesting, assuming that I'm understanding you properly, that we infact shouldn't say anything, just wait until it gets right to the point of sending PM warnings. Then we've got our selves right back to square one, where we have a user uspet about received a PM warning. So we don't say anything in the thread, right up until we have to warn someone. Seems to me that would lead to a lot of people getting uspet that they were given a PM warning out of the blue. Not helpful obviously.