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OK, so for a game I'm building an adept who will primarily be an infiltrator/B&E sort.

Stealth Group: 3 (30 BP)
Athletics Group: 3 (30 BP)
Archery: 3 (12 BP)
Etiquette: 2 (8 BP)
Dodge: 3 (12 BP)
Perception: 3 (12 BP)
Locksmith: 2 (8 BP)

Adept Powers: 5 PP
-Astral Perception (1PP)
-Traceless Walk (1 PP)
-Improved Sense: Direction Sense (.25 PP)
-Linguistics (.25 PP)
-Magic Sense (.5 PP)
-Improved Attribute: Agility (1 PP)
-Improved Attribute: Agility (1PP

My primary intent for him is to be a scout type with experience getting past security, sort of the person you'd have out front either leading the team inside, or doing the inside work himself while the team handles other things.

Do you think the Magic Sense is redundant? Any other ways you'd reccomend spending those .5 Power Points?

Any other thoughts?
I'd skip the Improved Attribute powers and pick up a combination of Muscle Toners, Synthacardium and some other goodies instead if your goal is to simply be a stealthy magical athlete. Improved Ability is a good choice for non-combat skills as well, since it only costs a quarter of a power point and can be very handy when applied to vital skills like Infiltration.
Except that'd lessen his essence.

Main reason I went with the Imp. Attribute is that the majority of his infiltration and athletic skills are based on Agility, as is his use of the XBow.
Kyoto Kid
...Active Skills:

Hardware (most locks in 2070 are electronic)
Computers (useful for programming nano disguises which can add to his disguise skill)
Con [Fast Talk +2] (really comes in handy when things go "south")

Swap Archery for some form of silenced firearm (with S&S rounds) that is more easily concealable.
Athletics group already gives him Gymnastic Dodge so Dodge skill can be dropped.

...Knowledge Skills:

Security Systems
Security Procedures
Police Procedures


Improved Ability (Hardware .25 per rating)
Improved Ability (Infiltration .25 per rating)

Since he has Astral Perception, I would drop the Magic sense and maybe take the power that improves Perception (don't remember the exact name).

Note that Improved Attribute - Agility is listed twice.


First Impression. (Adds 2 more dice to social pools)
I would definitely drop the Astral Perception power (and the related Assensing skill which you forgot to factor in), and take the Magic Sense power instead. The Magic Sense power gives you everything a ninja needs from Astral Perception without having to pay for the Assensing skill.
Lose the improved agility, take wall running and a level of improved reflexes. More mobility is never a bad thing, and improved reflexes will go a long way when the character needs to haul ass (especially away from security) as you get to take a running test every combat round, IIRC. Magic sense and Astral perception are redundant for your purposes. Keep the Astral perception if you can. Good skills have been suggested by the other posters, so I'll not comment. Just make sure to take a naturally high agility.
QUOTE (MadDogMaddux @ Oct 1 2007, 07:19 PM)
Except that'd lessen his essence.

And? All that does is lower your magic attribute by a point; until you lose two points of essence you don't even recieve any healing penalties and the only ability you have linked to the Magic attribute is Magic Sense and none of the other powers you selected are even limited by Magic. You're already in effect trading magic points for agility on a one for one basis with your current build; by taking Muscle Toner 2 and dropping Improved Agility you're essentially trading 1 magic and like 3 bps for 2 agility (leaving a whole extra point of magic free to invest in more efficient powers) plus you'd have room to fit in Synthacardium 3 without further harming your essence in any meaningful way. If you really are dead set on remaining an all natural adept, I'd strongly suggest concentrating on taking Improved Ability for your most valued skills and mixing in Attribute Boost for the times when you feel you could really benefit from a bit more Agility rather than going with Improved Physical Attribute. Adept powers are great for many things, but when it comes to permanently improving Attribute scores, it really is a case of a square peg trying to go through a round hole.
Having misread the title, I was going to suggest Missile Mastery and Power Throw so that your adept could hurl a tiara like a boomerang.

But I will have to agree that Improved Attribute is inefficient to the point of being useless. Hell, you'd be better off making him a possession tradition physmage and shoving a force 2 spirits into him constantly.

Sacrificing a single point of magic for a great deal of 'ware is preferable if you want to have improved attributes.

Get rid of the IA: Agility and replace them with 'ware. Spend the extra power point on something useful.

Go with sense and perception enhancements. Eidetic Sense Memory can be incredibly useful if you have a GM who knows how to use it but is useless otherwise. Note that you may just want to get cybereyes or cyberears instead of sense enhancing adept powers, since they can be a more efficient use of essence.

Magic sense is good, particularly if combined with Astral Perception. Don't get rid of it.

Get Psychometry as soon as you can initiate.
The improved attribute is the equivalent of +1 die in every Agi skill. It's fine for this build.

I'd consider ditching linguistics and magic sense and buying up your infiltration a bit. You might also want to do Athletics Group 2 and Stealth Group 4. Same total build points, but it's cheaper to raise later.

if you can squeeze it in, wall walking, because walls don't have pressure plates wink.gif


If you want the goodness of improved attribute with a lower cost, you might consider boost. with 2 dice worth that gives you 7 or so dice for the test pretty much guaranteeing at least one success, heck using the buy rules you could buy 2 success with that I think.
The min-max way is to start by buying Skill Groups, then as soon as you can, buy up one skill, so you now have separate skills and can take Specializations. Most of your Running tests will be Sprinting, eg covering ground between sweeps of a searchlight, or a getaway if stealth fails. Most of your Climbing will be on buildings. You'll use Gymnastics for a lot, but 3 ranks might be enough for jumping from roof to roof etc., while you can always benefit from a better Gymnastic Dodge. You will probably most often Disguise yourself as a guard or maintenance worker; you might use Palming while in Disguise, eg to swipe a passkey off of a desk while the guard is distracted, or to slap a tranq patch on a guard. You might want either enough mechanical skill to build & repair gadgets, or a contact who can take care of that for you.
Dunno about implanted sensors; goggles and earbuds can do most of the same things, but buy the best. Scout's only as useful as the observations they bring back.

Crossbow might allow you to fire bolts with specialized loads, eg distraction flares (preferably with programmable delay) or sensor-disablers (shoot an adhesive bolt into the mount of a camera, and it stops panning, which alerts guards less than knocking it out entirely) . However, it's usually incompatible with using disguise, and sometimes disguise gets you close and stealth gets you the last leg in, or vice versa.
Some great ideas, I'm definitely taking several of 'em.

Pity I can only afford a base skill of 2 in some of the skills I'd like to boost with my Power Points, it means I can only boost 'em an extra point due to the 1.5 times base skill rule. frown.gif

Seems there's a lot of Crossbow hating out there. nyahnyah.gif That's one thing that I really want to try with this guy - making him an Xbow user. Part of that is because I want to use injection bolts with Narcojet.
OK here's what I've done so far. Feel free to nitpick!

Gender: Male
Metatype: Dwarf (25 BP)
Height: 3’5?
Weight: 185
Hair: Black, Shoulder-length with Pony-Tail and Eagle Feather.
Eyes: Grey
Markings: Tribal Nanotats above both biceps.

B: 4 A: 3 R: 4 S: 4 C: 4 I: 5 L: 4 W: 4 (200 BP)
Edge: 3 (20 BP)
Magic: 5 (40 BP)
Essence: 5.4
Initiative: 9

Adept (5 BP)
Mentor Spirit (5 BP) (Fox)
First Impression (5 BP)
Sensitive System (+15 BP)
Spirit Bane/Water (+10 BP)
Allergy: Uncommon/Moderate: Cranberries (+10 BP)

Stealth Group: 4 (40 BP)
Athletics Group: 2 (20 BP)
Archery: 3 (12 BP)
Etiquette: 2 (8 BP)
Computers: 2 (8 BP)
Perception: 3 (12 BP)
Hardware: 2 (8 BP)

Knowledge Skills: 24 Free (+2BP)
Language-Haida: N
Language-English: 2
Academic-History: 2
Academic-Security Systems: 2
Academic-Megacorps: 2
Street-Shadowrunning: 2
Street-Security Procedures: 2
Interest-Haida Legends: 1

Contacts: (Connected/Loyal)
Fixer: 3/2
Salish Smuggler: 3/2
Shadoweb Gossip: 4/2

Adept Powers: 5 PP
-Astral Perception (1PP)
-Traceless Walk (1 PP)
-Improved Sense: Direction Sense (.25 PP)
-Linguistics (.25 PP)
-Magic Sense (.5 PP)
-Improved Ability: Hardware (.25 PP)
-Improved Ability: Infiltration (.25 PP)
-Improved Ability: Computers (.25 PP)
-Improved Ability: Running (.25 PP)
-Nimble Fingers (.25 PP)
-Facial Sculpt 3 (.75 PP)

Gear: 45,000 (9 BP)
Glasses 25
-Low Light 100
-Smartlink 500
-Image Link 25
-Flare Comp. 50
Contact Lenses 50
-Vision Enh. 3 300
Ear Buds 10
-Audio Enh. 3 300
-Spatial Recog. 100
Camo Suit (8/6) 1200 (Colours: Black/Urban Camo)
-Non-Conductive 6 1200
Light XBow 600 (Internal Smartgun)
Heavy Xbow 750
-External Smartgun 400
Injection Bolts x 20 1000
20x Narcojet 1000
Boltsx100 500
Xbow Clipsx10 50
Renraku Sensei 1000
-Renraku Ichi OS 600
-Subvocal Mic 50
-Skinlink 50
Fake SIN (3) 3000
Certified Credstick 25
Autopicker (6) 1200
Maglock Passkey (3) 6000
Sequencer (2) 400
Wire Cutters 25
Rappelling Gloves 70
Microwire (200 m) 100
Climbing Gear 200
Respirator (6) 600
Low Lifestyle x 1 Month 2000 (450 Starting Nuyen)
Sundry Clothes 65

Muscle Toner (2) 16000
Does the Agility Rating already show the increased value (by Muscle Toner)?
Your GM let you take a 10 BP bonus for being allergic to cranberries? Does Lone Star have cranberry juice Super Squirts in his universe? biggrin.gif
No, Agility Rating does not reflect Muscle Toner.

And my GM suggested it be a food allergy - I just randomly picked cranberries.
Kyoto Kid
...dwarf metatype costs 20 BP in 4th ed.

Unless your GM allows you to have the benefits of a mentor spirit I would drop that quality

Also by taking bioware your MA is only 4 so you have too many PPs in powers.

I would also take Hardware at a higher rating for it is probably the most important skill for B&E.

For 10 BPs the food allergy has to be more common. Natural (real) foods are uncommon.

I would also still take one, but not both Astral Perception or Magic sense (you can always pick the other up when you raise your MA).

Believe me, a bow, even a crossbow is not stealthy. It may be quiet, but it is big compared to a pistol (especially for a dwarf). It also only allows one shot and you have to take time to ready it. You can quick-draw a pistol and if it's SA you get two shots per IP.
I see a run on the new Horizon OceanSpray facility in your future biggrin.gif
The Dwarf Cost was a Typo - it's been corrected.

Uncommon (2) Moderate (cool.gif allergy = +10BP (SR4 p. 80)

I'd not realized that dropping my essence would drop my magic below 5, I may have to re-think that....

The Mentor Spirit is more for RP than anything - though I AM going to ask for more Adept related benefits.
I really ask myself why they didn't allow Mentor Spirits for Adepts... It was in SR3, as an adept could follow the Way of the Totem - which would give him access to the metaplanes for an initiation quest (iirc)
QUOTE (Irian)
I really ask myself why they didn't allow Mentor Spirits for Adepts... It was in SR3, as an adept could follow the Way of the Totem - which would give him access to the metaplanes for an initiation quest (iirc)

it's in either the FAQ or the errata, can't remember which, but adepts can have mentors. even if they aren't as good as they are for magicians/mystic adepts nyahnyah.gif
I've run Adept mentors as potentially granting an extra power point but only for "approved" powers which the totem can revoke if you're not living up to the right ideals. See if you can get your GM to agree to that one and you might be able to eke out a few more powers.
I've no trouble with asking my GM, don't worry. I already did so for my Asatru adept who follows Thor (Dragonslayer). He doesn't have any advantages from that, but tries to follow the moral codex... Perhaps someday in the future, Thor will actually do something, then I'll have to buy "Mentor Spirit" with Karma.

Jaid: I didn't find anything like that in errata or FAQ...
hmmm... maybe they were just *planning* on putting it in =S

in any case, the book contradicts itself in that respect, iirc... with the quality saying one thing, and the awakened world chapter saying another i think. (that is, depending on which page you believe, adepts either can or can't have mentor spirits)
IIRC the awakened World chapter only says, that every awakended Character with the Mentor Spirit quality does have one. That's no contradiction...
hmmm... maybe i'm thinking of a different contradiction then =S

then again, maybe my search for the word "mentor" in the PDF didn't find it because of the word being split up or something like that... who knows? =P

(i could've swore there was some reference to it though... maybe i'll try a forum search... )

[edit] ok, got something =) here.

in particular, the text in question on page 192 (mentioned in the thread i just linked) says "Members of any tradition may have mentor spirits, including adepts." (just before the "anyone with the quality can have the quality" (paraphrased) quote. [/edit]
I'm a big fan of infiltrators who can both sneak and speak well. Getting the Influence group at one and a few levels in Kinesics pawns most non-shadowrunners. It lets you snap orders at guards which they will want to obey (if your disguise holds up!), it allows you to con people, slip unnoticed in a crowd as if one of the crowd your whole life (etiquette), etc, etc. Charisma 4 +3 levels of Kinesics and influence group at 1 gives 8 dice. That means you win more than 50% of the time against an average person with a skill of 3.

Sure, its not the superheroic face-type char but you still have sneaky-sneak skills to use when you can find a way to not be seen and yet can walk around being stared at in other circumstances when stealth isnt really an option.

Oh, and consider the adept power that allows you to boost your existing abilities. It causes drain but can make a huge difference when you really need to win a string of tests.

EG: you need to con/bargain/bribe your way into a complex... if you can roleplay doing it quickly yet believably you could gain levels in Kinesics temporarily. Getting shot at? Boost Combat Reflexes. Getting out a tall building by the roof? Boost Improved Ability-Athletics.
Voice Control and Command also useful
LOL. So there you go Maddog, adding up all the posts you'll see that every single adept power is useful. Hope that helped ya! biggrin.gif
Thanks buster. nyahnyah.gif

Considering that my GM just said Voice Control and Command and I don't have either.....I'm officially sweating bullets. nyahnyah.gif
Hey, that's a general thing, not a dun-dun-dun moment. For the price, they are great. But I like my adepts to be multi-faceted and face skills are rarely a waste of money
QUOTE (Nikoli)
Hey, that's a general thing, not a dun-dun-dun moment. For the price, they are great. But I like my adepts to be multi-faceted and face skills are rarely a waste of money

Some insight into what your GM things is important for his style of gaming: priceless.
... and doesn't the mentor spirit: Rat give you two dice in Stealth tests? or was it Cat? Damn sleep deprivation!


Cat, yes.

We eventually agreed that Fox grants 2 dice for infiltration, and 2 dice for Beast Spirits, but when presented with a puzzle or riddle, I have to make a save to not drop everything and try to solve it.

Works for me. Now if I can just figure out how to actually USE the 2 dice for beast spirits. nyahnyah.gif
QUOTE (MadDogMaddux)
Works for me. Now if I can just figure out how to actually USE the 2 dice for beast spirits. nyahnyah.gif

Concealment power?

Also, I believe the 2 dice can be used against beast spirits too, such as for astral combat or banishing. Though I don't know if you have to be using a magical skill to use the bonus (as opposed to unarmed combat while perceiving).
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