Well, i was looking through the main book for SR4 and came across something that seemed a little cracked to me.

Is there any rules on limiting how much you can mod a comlink? Because it seems that you're better off buying the lowest costing comlink and then purchasing upgrades for it than if you were to buy a fairlight caliban and upgrade it.

Rating 5 is pretty much the highest you can go at character creation so you end up with something a little like this:

Fairlight Caliban (response 4 signal 5) - 8000
New response of 5 - 4000

Total for a Fairlight Caliban with a Response/Signal of 5/5 = 12000

Metalink (response 1 signal 2) - 100
New response of 5 - 4000
New Signal of 5 - 1000

Total for a Metalink with a Response/Signal of 5/5 = 5100

Now, i've not found rules anywhere (unless i've gone completely frikin' blind) limiting how much you can upgrade your comlink but i assume that their should be some so that everyone isn't running around with tricked out metalinks and putting fairlight out of business.

If their are no rules then how do we remedy this situation?
I was thinking caping upgrades at twice original value would sort it out (which makes very little difference to the caliban and all the difference to the Metalink, this still wouldn't stop you from buying a cheaper Comlink than the Caliban and moding it to similar specs, but it does remove much of the problem).

I'm really looking for a solution geared towards game realism, not the Rules As Written™, though if there is something already in the rules regarding this, then great, point me in the right direction.

Some people consider that you can only upgrade to the next rating (just like skills or attribute for example). So you'd have to upgrade your metalink from response 1 to 2, from 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and 4 to 5.

Nothing in the rules contradicts this (but nothing implies it either).

Even with this, you can get a better deal by buying the right commlink and the right upgrades... but then you have to consider that a heavily modded clunky Metalink won't be the same thing as a cool Fairlight Caliban. Besides, you'll need to explain how you were able to mod it (or have it modded) this way: it's not exactly something you can do in your basement with a toolbox, except if you want to end up with a ugly commlink ten times the size of the Caliban.

The way i've read the rules thus far is that upgrades are essentially plug and play items - you buy the relevant upgrade at the relevant rating and just insert it into your comlink. The only time you have to get technical, from what i can see, is when you want to build the upgrade from scratch yourself. There are no tests for installing the upgrade itself.

That's the way i've read it anyways. It's a bit like going from 512Mb of memory on your 'pooter and then yanking it out and wacking in 2Gb of memory instead (as a real world analogy), rather than going through a step progression of 512Mb -> 1Gb -> 1.5Gb -> 2Gb (which is what's been suggested with idea of only being able to buy the next level up).

I like the idea that you can buy upgrades at the level you want without having to go through the levels in between, it seems a more realistic (at least analogous to real computers) way of handling things even if it does break the game a little. I also understand that Comlinks probably don't work like real computers but since nothing in SR has ever taken the time to tell us how Comlinks work, it's all i've got to go with.

I go the simple route..

Custom build...

Are like all things max augmented rating equal max rating * 1.5 ...


System with a base rating of 2... can only be upgrade to 3..

Base rating of 4 could be upgraded to 6 ...


Allows upgrades, but also limits how far a unit can be modded.

Hmm. Where does it say that? All i got in the book (p240) was that it was a flat cost not "pay the difference".

Similarly i've found no instance saying that you have to build the custom system yourself (ie. there's nothing to say that to install your new rating 5 Signal upgrade into your comlink you need any particular skill or to roll any dice for the job), it's almost as if it's assumed the upgrade is plug and play, i've found mention of making the upgrade part (also on p240) yourself but that's the lot.

The rules don't say you need to roll to do the upgrade. But the fact is, if you buy a new response chip, you need to remove the old one and put the new one in. So, yeah, rules-as-written, it just happens, *poof*, like magic. But the GM would be well within his powers to make it a Logic + Hardware extended test. (I would go with threshold around 5, interval 1 hour. Nothing crazy.)

I've noticed this weirdness as well. I just do away with the stock models. It's a pain to keep track of their names and stats anyway, and they're totally inferior to custom builds.

Besides that, commlinks are cheap. I worked out that the best custom commlink allowed at character generation, without going over the availability cap, is as follows:

Maxed Out Custom Commlink, availability 12
Signal 5, Response 5, System 6, Firewall 6
Hot sim module
11,350k nuyen

There's no reason any hacker character would take anything less at chargen, when the one piece of equipment he absolutely depends on costs less than 3 bp in resources.

A mid-range custom commlink looks like this:

Mid-Range Custom Commlink, Availability 8
Signal 4, Response 3, System 4, Firewall 4
Sim module, sub-vocal microphone
4,100 nuyen

Which is usually sufficient for non-hackers.

Of course you can then add programs and accessories.

But players almost never custom build their commlinks at chargen, because for hackers the best is cheap enough, and nobody else cares enough to do the math when the mid-range is good enough.

I have a feeling this will be addressed in Unwired, much as in Matrix for SR3.
Good afternoon Mr. Croup.

Cheaper to build your own then to buy the stock machine, if you have the skills...

Never heard of this! Must be impossible.

It's not like I save 50% buying a case, CPU, MB, Hard Drive, DVD-ROM, RAM, Monitor, Graphic card, keyboard and mouse and slap it together myself so I can post to DS online instead of buying from Dell.

Note that for someone without the skills, if they buy the upgrades, I would let them have the components, but not yet installed. They then need to find someone to do it for them, or default on a simple B/R skill roll.

The next question is: Would you really need to have the character make a test to install an upgrade?

Looking at a real world perspective it's an extremely easy job to replace your memory these days and other components as well especially considering that many components come with installation instructions. So, unless you got the part OEM (to use real world terms) or on the street without any installation guide i could understand some kind of test being necessary. If it's off the shelf however it would probably come with guidelines on how to fit it.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Good afternoon Mr. P

I would test for it most of the time, primarily in case there's a glitch. If you run it as an extended test, the issue is less whether you succeed and more when you succeed. Since I would expect most installations to take hours rather than days, this is rarely an issue. The test would really be to see if the character screwed something up.

The test is to allow for a glitch, and to determine the amount of time it takes. In a campaign it might be a matter of dramatic tension to know if the upgrade is going to be done in time for that run you are doing "Right now!".

I'd agree with that. Logical enough, as even with instructions people can still make a hash of the job (i've seen it happen more than once).

I'm still not wholly sold on the tricked out Metalink being less costly than the Caliban and the sole difference being aesthetics. But i do see that as a factor - how much of a factor i'm not sure of yet though.

A commlink isn't a big computer... it can even be woven inside clothes!
Can you upgrade the CPU on your mobile phone without any skill and tools?

It's a very good point too. But with no knowledge of how Comlinks actually work we have no idea that the response (or signal) part of the comlink doesn't sit on an easily swappable item similar to an SD memory card like we have today.

Otherwise, if we take the real world analogy of the mobile phone as provided by blade then we simply wouldn't be able to upgrade stuff hardly at all. The complexity of manufacture of many modern day RF devices leave it in a position that if you were to try and, to use the example given, replace the CPU of a mobile phone, you would very likely (about 99% of the time) destroy it. If you were to completely replace the wafer of electronics the CPU sits on it would be easier as you have a lot less delicate connections to play with. Most consumer electronics are opting for this modular design these days as it saves a lot on fruitless re-work at the manufacturing stage for little return and ensures that re-work can be done easily by a worker with minimal training for the job. (i used to work for an electronics manufacturing company and that's what the situation was there, it maybe different in other places, but that was my experience).

I can see that plug and play technology being very prevailant (and it's very prevailant today as it is) in the 2070's so it is possible for that kind of upgrade to be available. SR4 seems to put the onus more on the ability to build your own upgrades more than being able to install them.

Although already anwered, I like to give my way of fixing the metalink problem.

First of all I have interpreted that in order to upgrade a commlink you need to pay for all the steps, not just look at the upgrade table and pay for the highest.

As pointed out, this still makes a pimped-out meta link far cheaper than a caliban, so here's step 2: Extras.

The metalink is the basic commlink, much like the cheapest mobiles today. They don't look good, is not a status symbol, and only has basic functions. The BBB says "though variations exist between different models(...)" and this implies to me that some have more utlities than others. So yes you can have a pimped out metalink cheaper than a caliban, but then you won't have the stylish look, extra utilities and accessories such as voice access control, trideo holoprojector, music player... basically it will be a compuer/phone able to make calls, read files, read tags, browse matrix and of course use the programs.

The Caliban certainly have all the accessories and perhaps more, and is the choise for the fashion-aware Shadowrunner or corporate executive

I wasn't suggesting that the characters are modifying their own comms. The way I treat it is that the player says, "I want one with such and such stats," and I say, "You order one like that online."

The process seems to be like people just casually taking apart their cell phone to replace the processor and the radio. Know anyone who has done that? Except it going to be lot harder, as the entire commlink (minus IO & battery) is going to be a single extremely small IC.

To be into perspective of 60+ years in the future, IMO it would be more like people who upgrade their computers today.

No, it's more like people who upgrade their PDA or laptop.

Know anyone who's replaced the cpu in their blackberry?

actually, yes.

Which is exactly how i see moding comlinks in SR4.

There are two more angles to this that I see:

1. I can and have done my own computer mods; however, when my last computer died, I had someone else do it because I didn't want the hassle. Cheaper than Dell, et al; however, more than I would have paid had I done the labor myself. Another thing, most of us on DS are a bit different from Joe Average anyway. How many of your non-gamer friends - I am assuming you have at least one - could build a computer?

2. Whose to say that the "common" commlinks aren't stamped on silicon - or the 2070 equivalent - and sold "as-is" to consumers? Granted, I know that there are rules for modification. I am pointing out that for Joe Average it may not be an option to mod their commlink.

...and they would have that infuriating sticker on them: "No User Serviceable Parts inside"

This now pretty much applies to cars in RL.

But that doesn't stop people (who are mechanically inclined) from figuring out how to modify them. The Toyota Prius is a perfect example. The hybrid engine in unique... However, people who mod them abound and there is a growing market for mods.. iPhone is another perfect example. Just came out, locked into ATT... People are already advertising to 'unlock' them, etc... Not everyone has the know how, but most people know someone who could... or they are two places removed from people who can. Can you say 'work those contacts'?

..oh yeah, I agree there are people out there who have the savvy to "crack" the code so to say.

However we are referring to Joe Average Wageslave here. who will most likely take his Prius (or Commlink in SR) into the dealer's mechanic when an idiot light on the dashboard keeps coming on for no apparent reason. Yeah he may have a standard tool cabinet in the garage, but with today's over-teched cars, it would be pretty much useless outside of changing the spark plugs, wiper blades, or a tyre.

...gimme a good ol' '67 Chevelle.

...or a bike. =)

Cheers!

Max

Given that relatively few SR campaigns center around an automotive mechanic or a GAP counterperson who is just trying to get through the 9 to 5 and watch a little 3v in the evening (not that it wouldn't be awesome, I'm just saying) and rather around an elite criminal pro-am league, it still seems odd that they devote as much space in the book as they do to comlinks and operating systems. If you're playing a hacker you're just going with the top of the line (probably customizing anyway) and if you're not a hacker, odds are the hacker in the group is going to customize your shit anyway just so he feels safe talking to you.

It depends on how realistic you want your game about wizards, dragons, and trolls with metal arms to be. I mean check out Han Solo hotrodding his interstellar spaceship. He's up there on the roof tweaking his fusion reactor and hyperspace drive with a wrench and a blowtorch and the audience doesn't even question it. So if you want your ubergeeks overclocking their trenchcoat/commlink with a portable electron microscope and nanite build team, I say go for it.

@KK
Actually todays auto mechanics have alot of electronic diagnostic tools, that enable them to work on todays cars. Yes the computer codes can be a b*tch at times, but the mechanics are coping with that issue.

For me I have been using/abusing computers since 1974, building same since 1985, kids these days never knew the fun of autoexec.bats and config.sys.

IIRC from several threads, and from previous editions of SR, alot of the commlinks use optical technology ie optical chips. So one just needs a hardware(electronics) tool kit, but a hardware shop is even better.

Just like in todays tech almost everything is surface mount, but now there are tools that enable working on surface mounts tech very easily. I see the same thing in 2070, too.

As for upgrading or modding a commlink, you just pay the costs to get to that level, same thing for the software, you do not have to buy all the versions between where you start and want to end.

WMS

...with respect to computer hardware, I am very much like my namesake. However I have a friend who is basically my "deckmeister" contact in RL. I even hate installing new software for I'm never sure I am doing it right.

@MaxHunter: How would an '82 Stumpjumper do? (that's what I ride everyday, a classic)

@WMS: I am aware of that, but your weekend garage mechanic doesn't have access to these (a lot of the software is proprietary). So you still need to pay someone else to do the work instead of going down to the wrecking yard, getting the part you need, & doing it yourself.

i think i've used more floppies in my life as "bootdisk--<insert game name>" than i have for actual storage of information...


er, tho i did have a lot of pr0n on them too, back in the day so maybe not such a gap now that i think of it...

*Shrugs* Personally I assume that as long as a Runner has a tech contact OR a magic commcode belonging to a Fixer getting in touch with a techhead willing to build your custom link really isn't a problem, just make sure you have your team's Decker give it the once over to catch the hidden kill-switch, and then most importantly go over it yourself to catch whatever switches the team Decker installed...