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Scope_47
Ok, so I know that the leadership skill is suposed to represent the ability to lead people and take charge... but are there any actual rules for it?

For example, say you have a PC who has leadership with a specialty in combat leadership. During a gunfight, she spends an action to yell "Lay down supressing fire and fall back" or some such in an attempt to help the team get out with their hides intact - then gets four hits on a leadership roll. How should this be handled? Initiative bonus, teamwork bonus dice, nothing but RP, or something else? The BBB is incredibly vague on this skill, but as far as I can tell it subsumed the SR3 Small Unit Tactics skill.
Nychuus
I say its a GM call.

Some examples I can see is when the Leadership guy is dealing with NPCs he's giving orders before a firefight. It would reduce "I ain't listenin' to this noob! I'm goin' break right an' not left!" issues.

But then again if a seasoned veteran barks an order at you, you better do it. dead.gif
deek
We've normally given teamwork bonuses...but the "leader" is choosing to give bonuses to his team versus shooting a gun himself.
Adarael
"However you want it to."
Kool Kat
QUOTE (deek)
We've normally given teamwork bonuses...but the "leader" is choosing to give bonuses to his team versus shooting a gun himself.

I think this is one of the better ways to handle it. Subords look to their leaders for guidance and inspiration during situations in which leadership is required.

I think I'll use the Leadership skill in this capacity. The Leader gives up their turn to give the rest of the team some kind of DICE bonus benefit.

We'll use a scene from Band of Brothers as a good example of leadership:

Private Blithe is hunker down in his foxhole, crapping in his pants as MG42 HMG fire and various other small arms fire wiz by his foxhole along with a rain of tank fire and mortar blasts. He's screaming his head off in panic when suddenly Captain Winters appears above him shouting down at him in his foxhole. Captain Winters is telling Blithe to get on his feet and shoot his weapon, "Kill those Germans Blithe! Get up and kill them! Fire your weapon!" Captain Winters is giving up his ability to fire to inspire his man to get into the fight. He rolls Charisma + Leadership and gets 5 hits. Seeing Captain Winters standing up there in the open under fire and not flinching inspires him to act and not only act but actually whack a German soldier. He went from a crying school girl to a German killer in a matter of seconds because Captain Winters used his Leadership skill to give Blithe a bonus. How you apply that bonus is where GM discretion comes in. Do you give your man +5 extra dice to Attack/Defense? Adjust his initative total by 5 for the rest of the battle? It's all up to the GM at this point. Be creative and realistic.
Cheops
In the OP example I'd say that anyone who actually gives suppressive fire gets a teamwork bonus. I might also be inclined to give anyone who cooperates with the order an Initiative bonus the next round if they do what they are told.

If the PC is controlling friendly NPCs then the Leadership roll just gets them to do what they are told.

You can also do funky stuff with AR and networked teams. Basically my group has replaced the BattleTac Computer with AR. A Leader would be given a bonus to his roll based on the sort of information his team is providing him. As GM I wouldn't go higher than +4 but you can do whatever you want.
Wasabi
I'd personally like to see it also add a bonus versus fear affects.
"Soldier, a good Barghest is a DEAD Barghest... get in there killer and make your momma proud!"
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Kool Kat)
Captain Winters is telling Blithe to get on his feet and shoot his weapon, "Kill those Germans Blithe! Get up and kill them!Fire your weapon!"

...of course there was the scene from M*A*S*H where Col. Potter and Hawkeye Pierce were in a shell hole being shot at after their jeep was blown up by mortar fire.

Col. potter told Hawkwye to "Fire your gun, that's an order soldier". Hawkeye pulled his service revolver out looked at it and said "Your fired" and then turned to Potter & replied "There, it's fired, I tried to do it as gently as possible" grinbig.gif
Dashifen
QUOTE (Kool Kat)


QUOTE (deek @ Oct 12 2007, 08:34 AM)
The Leader gives up their turn to give the rest of the team some kind of DICE bonus benefit.


I do the same. Here's my house rule for Leadership in combat situations. Outside of combat situations I use it somewhat like a low-key, less dangerous form of Intimidation.

If a character with Leadership wishes to enhance the tactical position of his/her team, that character must spend the final complex action of a combat turn to assess the current tactical situation. This complex action includes the distribution of tactical information to teammates. If all teammates have networked their commlinks, there is a +2 dice pool modifier for the Leadership (Tactics) skill. Every hit on such a roll adds one die to each teammate's initiative for both the determining the initiative order and and the initiative roll dice pool.

Example:
Alice, Bob, Chuck, and Donna are in combat. Alice is the tactical leader of the group and wants to try and assist her team in handling the situation. She has three initiative passes and during her final one, she makes a Leadership (Tactics) roll. Her Leadership skill is 4 and her Charisma is 5. She has the Tactics specialization providing her an additional 2 dice. However, their opponents are jamming their matrix communications, so she does not receive an additional +2 for a networked team. Alice rolls her pool of 11 dice getting three hits. This adds three to each member's initiative and allows them to roll three more dice during their initiative rolls in the next turn.

I've never liked that this use of Leadership is tied to Charisma; I almost want to tie it to Intuition (like Perception) but it doesn't bother me enough to make the exception to one of the base mechanics of the system.
Zen Shooter01
Didn't somebody official somewhere say that small unit tactics as a specialization of Leadership was going to be covered in Arsenal?

I handle Leadership like this: Make the roll versus their Willpower + social skill, which one depends on the circumstances, +/- modifiers. If you get more net hits, they do what you say.

But the modifiers could be very significant. "Advance into fire across Corporal Schmidt's body" would rate -6 or worse. Of course, in a military unit, I'd also give modifiers for rank - if you outrank them, you gain dice.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Oct 12 2007, 12:46 PM)
If a character with Leadership wishes to enhance the tactical position of his/her team, that character must spend the final complex action of a combat turn to assess the current tactical situation. This complex action includes the distribution of tactical information to teammates. If all teammates have networked their commlinks, there is a +2 dice pool modifier for the Leadership (Tactics) skill. Every hit on such a roll adds one die to each teammate's initiative for both the determining the initiative order and and the initiative roll dice pool.

*yoink*

and...
QUOTE (deek)
I handle Leadership like this: Make the roll versus their Willpower + social skill, which one depends on the circumstances, +/- modifiers. If you get more net hits, they do what you say.

*yoink*

And added to the house rules.
deek
Well, I do have it opposed, even if used on a teammate, so the leader is rolling Charisma + Leadership and the teammate opposes it with Leadership + Willpower. I think this makes sense, as someone else versed in Leadership may thing the leader is full of hooey or has a strong willpower which hurts his chances to be influenced, even if it is friendly.

Net hits from the leader give the teammate a bonus die pool, which most often is used for the next attack action. It is effective until the "leader's" next action.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (bibliophile20)
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Oct 12 2007, 12:46 PM)
If a character with Leadership wishes to enhance the tactical position of his/her team, that character must spend the final complex action of a combat turn to assess the current tactical situation. This complex action includes the distribution of tactical information to teammates. If all teammates have networked their commlinks, there is a +2 dice pool modifier for the Leadership (Tactics) skill. Every hit on such a roll adds one die to each teammate's initiative for both the determining the initiative order and and the initiative roll dice pool.

*yoink*

...Yoink seconded.

This makes a Face with the Influence skill group more useful in combat.
Kool Kat
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (Kool Kat)
Captain Winters is telling Blithe to get on his feet and shoot his weapon, "Kill those Germans Blithe! Get up and kill them!Fire your weapon!"

...of course there was the scene from M*A*S*H where Col. Potter and Hawkeye Pierce were in a shell hole being shot at after their jeep was blown up by mortar fire.

Col. potter told Hawkwye to "Fire your gun, that's an order soldier". Hawkeye pulled his service revolver out looked at it and said "Your fired" and then turned to Potter & replied "There, it's fired, I tried to do it as gently as possible" grinbig.gif

LOL! Ahhhh M*A*S*H Good times! I remember that episode well...

In that case the Leadership + Charisma roll resulted in ZERO HITS. grinbig.gif

A bad glitch would result in the soldier pulling out his weapon and shooting the officer. dead.gif
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Kool Kat)
A bad glitch would result in the soldier pulling out his weapon and shooting the officer. dead.gif

I think that would only happen in the case of a critical glitch on the part of the officer.

Hmmm... what would happen if the soldier glitched?
Dashifen
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Oct 12 2007, 12:17 PM)
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Oct 12 2007, 12:46 PM)
If a character with Leadership wishes to enhance the tactical position of his/her team, that character must spend the final complex action of a combat turn to assess the current tactical situation. This complex action includes the distribution of tactical information to teammates. If all teammates have networked their commlinks, there is a +2 dice pool modifier for the Leadership (Tactics) skill. Every hit on such a roll adds one die to each teammate's initiative for both the determining the initiative order and and the initiative roll dice pool.

*yoink*

...Yoink seconded.

This makes a Face with the Influence skill group more useful in combat.

Yup. That was one of the goals. For a while I had considered taking Leadership out of the group, but then I decided to just make it work the way I wanted it to.

As for the poster who, above, mentioned that tactics would be in Arsenal, I don't know of an official source, but I sort of assumed that would be the case, too.
Dread Polack
As far as linking Leadership to Intuition: is there any reason you can't do this? At least in certain situations, it's well within the rules of the game, I believe. In fact, it's probably what I would do in tactical situations. Tacticians aren't always commanders, but it seems acceptable to have it as a specialty of Leadership.

Dread Polack
Riley37
Proposed houserule:

Leadership causes NPCs to obey your orders. Tactics Knowlege helps you give them *useful* orders. Two different skills, linked to different Attributes.
The Inititative benefit of your tactical orders is limited to the higher of your Leadership+Charisma hits and your Intuition+Tactics Knowlege hits.
If you yell "Charge!" and they all charge eagerly into suppressing fire from the six Steel Lynxes, then perhaps next time you should study Tactics Knowlege.
On another hand, perhaps they're enthusiastic because the perimeter guard is retreating, and they *want* to charge, and your tactics knowlege tells you it's a trap, and you need several hits on Leadership + Charisma to get them to slow down and check for drones/mines/monowire.

I second Wasabi's opinion on fear; hits on Leadership + Charisma can add to your ally's Willpower dice to resist Fear or Initimidation, cf. the Guts quality... but only if you yourself are not overcome by fear, or can fake it well enough to get the quaver out of your voice.

Helmuth von Moltke said that commanders are smart or stupid, and energetic or lazy. The most dangerous to the enemy is the smart energetic commander; the most dangerous to her own side is the stupid energetic commander. (Moltke favored smart and lazy - take few risks, only when advantage exceeds risk.) In team sports, I most often see leadership used to get teammates to play smart and methodical, rather than impulsively.
Buster
I hate it when GMs insist players can never talk during a fight "to make it realistic" and all the players end up zerging around the battlefield like a bunch of retards on recess.

A good use of the Leadership (Tactics) skill is for rapid communication and automatic teamwork during a fight. Seasoned professionals are automatically going to know what to do and what their teammates are going to do. And they're going to know what all those commando hand signals and jargon mean.

In general terms, Leadership (Tactics) justifies allowing players to discuss plans and tactics in the middle of a firefight.
Wasabi
QUOTE (Riley37)
Proposed houserule:

Leadership causes NPCs to obey your orders. Tactics Knowlege helps you give them *useful* orders. Two different skills, linked to different Attributes.
The Inititative benefit of your tactical orders is limited to the higher of your Leadership+Charisma hits and your Intuition+Tactics Knowlege hits.
If you yell "Charge!" and they all charge eagerly into suppressing fire from the six Steel Lynxes, then perhaps next time you should study Tactics Knowlege.
On another hand, perhaps they're enthusiastic because the perimeter guard is retreating, and they *want* to charge, and your tactics knowlege tells you it's a trap, and you need several hits on Leadership + Charisma to get them to slow down and check for drones/mines/monowire.

I second Wasabi's opinion on fear; hits on Leadership + Charisma can add to your ally's Willpower dice to resist Fear or Initimidation, cf. the Guts quality... but only if you yourself are not overcome by fear, or can fake it well enough to get the quaver out of your voice.

Helmuth von Moltke said that commanders are smart or stupid, and energetic or lazy. The most dangerous to the enemy is the smart energetic commander; the most dangerous to her own side is the stupid energetic commander. (Moltke favored smart and lazy - take few risks, only when advantage exceeds risk.) In team sports, I most often see leadership used to get teammates to play smart and methodical, rather than impulsively.

Or have it substitute for Willpower... smile.gif
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