glory frickin' halleluja.
i hereby deem the errata writers eminently sensible.
Full Version: M&M errata
| QUOTE |
| In game terms, bioware reduces an Awakened character's Magic rating in a way similar to Essence loss. Magic is reduced by the character's Bio Index divided by 2 (round down). The effects of Bio Index and Essence reduction on Magic are cumulative, so the two should be combined before determining how Magic is affected. Magic has a starting value equal to the character's Essence minus (Bio Index ÷ 2), rounded down. So a starting magician with Essence 5.8 and a Bio Index of 1 begins with a Magic rating of 5 (5.8 - 0.5 = 5.3, rounded down to 5). Further increases in Bio Index (or reductions in Essence) may also affect the Magic rating whenever the total falls beneath a whole number. If the same magician later acquires more bioware, raising his Bio Index to 2, he will lose an additional point of Magic (5.8 - 1 = 4.8, rounded to 4). Magic reduction from bioware functions like other forms of Magic loss-adepts lose some of their powers, for example. Geasa can be used to counteract magic loss from bioware and a character can still initiate to raise his Magic rating. |
That changed quite a bit. Though it is far easyier to understand and Actually effects iniatites rather then be a mild convienice.
...and the Expert Chip Driver gets it's much needed cap 
.
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And FAE got even more screwed. I hope that in the 5th corrected printing there is no longer such a thing as FAE. Or it's price has been hitched to (Rating^5) x 1000Y, so that everyone can immediately see that it should never, ever be used in any game. Right now, some GM might still be tempted to try it out, only to find that it costs 
25,000 per meter of Radius, regardless of the Power of the explosion. w00t.
Or you could of course get 1 gram of FAE-12 for 6Y, for a radius of 0 but a blast of 24D -1/m.
But otherwise I'm liking it.
25,000 per meter of Radius, regardless of the Power of the explosion. w00t.Or you could of course get 1 gram of FAE-12 for 6Y, for a radius of 0 but a blast of 24D -1/m.
But otherwise I'm liking it.
Amen!
The only problem I have is with the "recommendation" that cultured bioware not be allowed. Now you can get an implant to stop your heart with a Metabolic Arrester or really need the ability to coagulate your blood 24/7 with Platelete Factories, but god forbid you're an insomniac who needs a Sleep Regulator.
They should have really used two different words for the "cultured" grade and "cultured" neural bioware.
It's even more odd that because cultured implants are supposedly so difficult and time consuming, they cost four times more than a normal implant. I guess neural implants must be *really* easy to do. If they were available as "standard" bioware, a Mnemonic Enhancer 1 would cost 7,500¥ with an availability of 4/36 hours while a Sleep Regulator would only be 5,000¥, 2/12 hours. Yet something that should be pretty simple like, say, Cat's Eyes costs you 15,000¥ and has an availablity of 4/6 days.
Messing with the brain: Simple and cheap. Messing with the body: Expensive and difficult to acquire. Check.
They should have really used two different words for the "cultured" grade and "cultured" neural bioware.
It's even more odd that because cultured implants are supposedly so difficult and time consuming, they cost four times more than a normal implant. I guess neural implants must be *really* easy to do. If they were available as "standard" bioware, a Mnemonic Enhancer 1 would cost 7,500¥ with an availability of 4/36 hours while a Sleep Regulator would only be 5,000¥, 2/12 hours. Yet something that should be pretty simple like, say, Cat's Eyes costs you 15,000¥ and has an availablity of 4/6 days.
Messing with the brain: Simple and cheap. Messing with the body: Expensive and difficult to acquire. Check.
Well, I think things like the sleep regulator can be seen as something that's not easy to get ahold of. I mean, if you're a regular guy with a SIN and your doctor says "Hey, you need a sleep regulator" you'll probably get hooked up with one, but it's also out of the reach of the 'cosmetic' crowd.
As to the pricing/availability it could just be designed with the fact that there's no non-cultured version in mind and that in some ways it's not horribly difficult to come across. Although, I tend to agreethe cost/avail of a Mnemonic Enhancer has always seemed a little low.
And on a note about the bioware/magic clarification, w00t. It's been a real issue in my games lately and it's nice to have a clear and concise ruling to go with now.
As to the pricing/availability it could just be designed with the fact that there's no non-cultured version in mind and that in some ways it's not horribly difficult to come across. Although, I tend to agreethe cost/avail of a Mnemonic Enhancer has always seemed a little low.
And on a note about the bioware/magic clarification, w00t. It's been a real issue in my games lately and it's nice to have a clear and concise ruling to go with now.
| QUOTE (Connor) |
| Although, I tend to agreethe cost/avail of a Mnemonic Enhancer has always seemed a little low. |
Actually, it seems pretty reasonable now, considereing the lessened effects.
I can Geasa bioware, yeah.
| QUOTE (Namer18) |
| p. 69 Symbiotes Game Effects [4] Add the following: Symbiotes help to heal both Physical and Stun damage. |
H'mm. There's now a precedent for artificially healing Stun damage. Does this mean the table is open for a spell to do the same? Munchkin season is open, if so...
well, considering the very specific wording of the 'magic cannot heal stun' rule, i'd say no.
| QUOTE (mfb @ Nov 23 2003, 09:31 PM) |
| well, considering the very specific wording of the 'magic cannot heal stun' rule, i'd say no. |
Now see there is something I never got magic can not heal stun. I made and allowed my players to use a spell that would heal stun the DRAWBACK and you knew there had to be one was that it did physical damage. The drain was something like f/2 +4 wound level. Seeing as the rule of magic can not heal stun I made it a spell with a major drawback or so I thought. No one took it though, thought it was unuseable because of the physical damage.
Why would the ability to heal stun damage be overpowering? It's not like anything magical can heal drain.
@TinkerGnome
You know, you're right. I hadn't thought about the new errata with regard to the Mnemonic Enhancer. It does seem more balanced now.
You know, you're right. I hadn't thought about the new errata with regard to the Mnemonic Enhancer. It does seem more balanced now.
because then you have to keep track of what's stun and what's drain, on your stun monitor. to me, the game is complex enough without introducing a factor like that; if you think you can handle it, houserule it.
EOTLF, a person would have to be insane to trade stun damage for physical damage under any circumstances i can think of. what use did you see in a spell that would do that? i'm not criticizing, i'm just wondering if there's some crazy rule out there that i haven't yet twisted to my sinister advantage.
EOTLF, a person would have to be insane to trade stun damage for physical damage under any circumstances i can think of. what use did you see in a spell that would do that? i'm not criticizing, i'm just wondering if there's some crazy rule out there that i haven't yet twisted to my sinister advantage.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| because then you have to keep track of what's stun and what's drain, on your stun monitor. to me, the game is complex enough without introducing a factor like that; if you think you can handle it, houserule it. |
Don't forget the possibilty of needing to track Drain, Stun AND Fatigue.
MFB It was years ago and I was using the grimoire 2nd ed. to make it. It ended up with physical drain because of how the spell was made I do belive but like i said it was years ago and a different set of rules to a certain point. I would give out the formula except I trashed all kinds of stuff when 3rd came out.
Symbiotes doesn't really heal wounds, like the spells, but accelerates the body's own recuperation (BOD rolls and all that jazz). I view Heal and Treat like a forced knitting of tissue, rather than "fast-forward" natural regeneration, but that's just me. I think Im pretty fine with the new wording.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| because then you have to keep track of what's stun and what's drain, on your stun monitor. to me, the game is complex enough without introducing a factor like that; if you think you can handle it, houserule it. |
You already have to do this for physical damage, so how is doing it for stun damage that much more bookkeeping? Not that I want to allow it, but from a game balance/workability standpoint, I don't see much trouble with it.
how often do mages take physical damage in your games? in mine, mages try to avoid that sort of thing, most of the time. there's a difference between occasionally having to remember how much of your physical monitor is drain and how much is that gunshot wound, and constantly having to keep track of different kinds of stun.
It doesn't matter. Now, Symbiotes help heal Stun and Physical damage. Drain causes Stun or Physical damage. Thus Symbiotes help heal drain by canon, just like the Quick Healer edge does.
With Symbiotes and Quick Healer, magicians can now roll Body (or more likely Willpower) against a TN of 2 + wound modifiers -2 every time they take Drain. They then heal one box every 60/successes minutes. With a Willpower of 6, Moderate drain, and a quick random roll (since I can never remember the probabilities) which results in... 4 successes, he'll be completely healed in 22 minutes, taking only 7.5 minutes to get back down to a Light wound.
With Symbiotes and Quick Healer, magicians can now roll Body (or more likely Willpower) against a TN of 2 + wound modifiers -2 every time they take Drain. They then heal one box every 60/successes minutes. With a Willpower of 6, Moderate drain, and a quick random roll (since I can never remember the probabilities) which results in... 4 successes, he'll be completely healed in 22 minutes, taking only 7.5 minutes to get back down to a Light wound.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| well, considering the very specific wording of the 'magic cannot heal stun' rule, i'd say no. |
That does ring bells actually. We've never let anyone have a spell which would let them, I hasten to add, but I can't find the specific rule. I can see where it says 'no spell currently known to man' can heal stun damage, but that doesn't mean it can't be designed.
Is there a book/page number which states this, for my future reference?
TIA
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| With Symbiotes and Quick Healer, magicians can now roll Body (or more likely Willpower) against a TN of 2 + wound modifiers -2 every time they take Drain. They then heal one box every 60/successes minutes. With a Willpower of 6, Moderate drain, and a quick random roll (since I can never remember the probabilities) which results in... 4 successes, he'll be completely healed in 22 minutes, taking only 7.5 minutes to get back down to a Light wound. |
Er, don't you roll seperately for each box? So you'd roll once for the first box, get, say 4 successes and heal that box in 22 minutes, but then you roll again (now at one less target number) and work out that box, then after that.. repeat until no stun damage. Or am I overly harsh on my players?
SR3, 162: "Physical damage caused by Drain cannot be healed using magic, only by rest and medication."
beyond that and the stimpatch-causes-magic-loss thing, i never knew that there was a limit on how Drain is healed. the symbiotes-heal-stun thing doesn't particularly upset me--at least, not more than the base healing rules. my body 5 character was once able to heal from S+3 to completely unwounded in less than two days, with no magic involved.
beyond that and the stimpatch-causes-magic-loss thing, i never knew that there was a limit on how Drain is healed. the symbiotes-heal-stun thing doesn't particularly upset me--at least, not more than the base healing rules. my body 5 character was once able to heal from S+3 to completely unwounded in less than two days, with no magic involved.
| QUOTE (spotlite @ Nov 24 2003, 04:35 PM) |
| Er, don't you roll seperately for each box? So you'd roll once for the first box, get, say 4 successes and heal that box in 22 minutes, but then you roll again (now at one less target number) and work out that box, then after that.. repeat until no stun damage. Or am I overly harsh on my players? |
Sounds more annoying than harsh to me (and truthfully it's much more lenient than my way). You may well be right. I just prefer a single roll to determine the speed most of the time.
i usually roll once for each damage level.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| SR3, 162: "Physical damage caused by Drain cannot be healed using magic, only by rest and medication." |
Thanks muchly!
Argh! Now I remember why that rang bells. This harks back to a thread which became a bit heated. Just re-read the quote, and it says PHYSICAL damage caused by drain cannot be healed by yadda yadda... not Stun damage. I accept (and will rule in my game) that by extension it makes sense that Stun damage is included, but it could be argued the other way.
| QUOTE (spotlite) |
| Er, don't you roll seperately for each box? |
Absolutely correct. SR3, p. 126: "Recovering from a box of Stun damage takes a base time of 60 minutes. The actual time it takes to recover 1 box of Stun damage is equal to the base time, divided by the number of successes rolled."
| QUOTE (spotlite) |
| Just re-read the quote, and it says PHYSICAL damage caused by drain cannot be healed by yadda yadda... not Stun damage. I accept (and will rule in my game) that by extension it makes sense that Stun damage is included, but it could be argued the other way. |
No need to make that extension from that particular quote ...
Just read the section on healing Stun Damage in the core rules. Because that sections says that Stun Damage cannot be healed through any other means than rest.
So healing Drain / Stun Damage via spell isn't allowed due to the healing rules and magically healing physical injuries caused by Drain is prohibited due to the Drain rules.
No possibility to argue any other way ...
BTW, about the physical/stun drain stuff: There was a blood magic ability that let you take physical to mitigate stun drain. It could be used on someone else (ie kill a hostage to make them resist the drain from your spell) or it could be used to cut yourself and take a lot less mental drain because the physical drain compensated. Plus, it was a physical wound (not drain) and you could heal it with magic like normal. Okay, this is not for PCs, but it does make Blood Mages all that more nasty...
Was that in MitS? Or somewhere else... Hmmm... Don't have my copy at the moment.
Was that in MitS? Or somewhere else... Hmmm... Don't have my copy at the moment.
It's in the Aztlan sourcebook.
It's in Magic in the Shadows as well, under the Blood Magic section. You need the Sacrificing metamagic technique for it, however.
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