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Mr. Croup
OK. This may or may not have been covered once upon a time but there you go.

Here's the thing that's getting me at the moment:

Why does Bone Lacing (the bone is still wrapped in meat, mind you) allow you to cause physical damage in unarmed combat but having a cyberarm or multiple cyberlimbs (essentially a hunk of metal) means you can still only cause stun damage in unarmed combat?

What's up with that?

wasn't that errataed somewhere?
if not, just house-rule it so you have the same option to do physical damage with your hunky metal limb *g*
My thoughts are that cyberlimbs aren't made out of metal, they're made out of plastic and carbon fiber like modern prosthetics. Remember "chrome" was meant to mock cyberpunk augmentations, referring to inferior products in the 80's made out of cheap plastic and covered with a molecule-thin veneer of chrome plating to make it look all shiny.

If you want to do more damage, you can integrate brass knuckles into your cyberhand.
Or, you know, put brass knuckles on your cyberhand.
QUOTE (Mercer)
Or, you know, put brass knuckles on your cyberhand.

Ha, true. But that just seems so low tech... biggrin.gif
Mr. Croup
In a world where Thor Shots and Rods from God exist, the very idea of punching someone is low tech.
Stock cyberlimbs are meant for civilian consumption. They don't have to be physically strong no resilient. Luckily shadowrunners are not civilians.

From the thread Cyberlimb Melee Damage House Rules:

Limb Reinforcement: Limb reinforcement is a common method of reinforcing a cyberlimb commensurate with an overall increase in physical strength. By replacing load bearing portions of the joints and structure with high performance polymers and composites, the joint is increased in overall rigidity and strength to withstand the incredible loads it is capable of generating. The result is an increase in movable load as well as an appreciable increase in striking power when used as a weapon. Limb Reinforcement is available in ratings 1-3. Installation of Limb Reinforcement systems beyond rating 1 requires a cybertorso. A cyberlimb with Limb Reinforcement deals (Strength ÷ 2 + Rating)P damage. The limb has an AP modifier of its (Rating) when tested against barriers (not armor).

Limb Reinforcement

    * Essence: -
    * Capacity: [Rating x 1]
    * Availability: (Rating x 5)R
    * Cost: Rating x 2,500¥

That is the house rule that I have come up with to handle that very issue.

The good news about cyberlimbs is that even the crappiest limb can mount a Spur. Spurs deal some pretty serious damage. However, a spur is a totally different kind of cool than a metal friggin arm that can punch through a man.

[salespitch]With structural reinforcement, never again worry whether or not your fist can go through bone, concrete or steel! [/salespitch]

- der menkey

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemmingway
QUOTE (Buster)
My thoughts are that cyberlimbs aren't made out of metal, they're made out of plastic and carbon fiber like modern prosthetics.

So is Plastic Bone Lacing, which still does Physical Damage. wink.gif
I think the reason why cyberlimbs don't do physical damage is for game balance. If cyberlimbs did physical then there would be practically no reason to get hand razors. And lets face it hand razors are just cool. and an integral part of the setting. Why punch someone with a metal arm when you can extend fricken RAZORS from your finger tips. I'm not sure why bonelacing does Physical, I almost think it should be changed to stun but keep its damage rating. That makes a little bit more sense.
Clubs do Physical damage ... a big-ass metal arm should do at least the same.
Also, you can get razors and spurs installed in a cyberhand.
*cough* matter raise in SR3 forum. *cough*
Still has to be resolved.
Mr. Croup
I'm not sure it's an entirely resovable problem.

As for the hand razors reasoning, you can have razors installed into normal uncybered hands as i recall, so the game balance issue really isn't.
Yes you can get them in uncybered hands, but if I could get the same effect as razors with a cyber arm, I'd choose the cyber arm almost every time, sure there is a cost difference but still, cyberarms are way more usefull and thats 2 more capacity you have in one to play around with.
I wouldn't. Considering the extra cost of a cyberarm, both in nuyen and essence, plus all the modifications you need to make the arm good enough to take into combat, I wouldn't say that a cyberarm is a worthwhile replacement for hand razors.
Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger!
Mr. Croup
Somebody been watching Conan recently?
QUOTE (Mr. Croup)
Somebody been watching Conan recently?

It's a daily ritual for some people on Dumpshock. wink.gif
Mr. Croup
I'd go as far to say that some don't just watch it. They live it. ;D
I tell you what is best in life: destroying your enemies, driving them before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women!
Maybe I am wrong; but hasn't all this been addressed in Augmentation?
(just looked and seems not!) However I think there was a houserule or errata for something like str/p. And I am happy with that notion even if I don't remember now where I got it from!


Stahlseele post in this very thread
QUOTE (Stahlseele) post in this very thread

As well as probably a hundred other posts on Dumpshock. It's a pretty common house rule. biggrin.gif
and one easyly understood . . just by replacing stun with physical damage(as you can with a good cyber-limb punch thourgh cars for example) you make it much more believable . .
"what do you mean, i knocked him unconscious? i just punched through a frigging car before hitting him and he's not even bleeding?"
alternatively i would let people chose what kind of damage they wanna do with said modifications . .
For my money, I thought the best example of this was from the move I, Robot. I won't go into any further detail so as not to spoil anything for anyone, but I was pleasantly surprised by this movie.
splanation please O.o
if needed be, use
[ Spoiler ]
All righty. The movie's been out awhile and I imagine those of us who are going to see have seen it. It was one of those "whoa" moments in the movie for me, so I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it. So if its still in your Netfilx queue or if you just don't want the surprise ruined, I'll put it in a:

[ Spoiler ]
ah that. i knew about that O.o
Also: Virtuosity has something like that too ^^
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