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st0023kr
I got the book Augmentation and came up with a few question.

I understand that you can use nanotech to build small items.
If you can send nanotech to build several items does it matter as to the
amount of programs that it has or guidence.

I was thinking of using nanotech droped in a certain area in the ocean
asto build work habatits nothing below 500 feet.
Is this possible? For mining and secret research into R&D?

Is this also possible to use this tech to mine in space and build habatits.
Send out a probe to an astroid, the nanobots mine it for resources then
send ore back to earth.

Can nanobots also be sent to the moon, or other places in the solar system for
research or setting up space stations and instalizations?

Also is there going to be any more info on Mars in Shadowrun?
What the Big D did in his will made me think that there should be more research on mars in the general public. Any ideas??????????
Fortune
QUOTE (st0023kr)
What the Big D did in his will made me think that there should be more research on mars in the general public.

You are aware that those pictures are fakes, aren't you?
st0023kr
I believe that even if the pictures were faked.
People would be interested in Mars again because of the pictures.
FrankTrollman
There is an adventure where you find the stuff that was actually brought back from Mars. It includes troll bones. Your guess is as good as mine.

-Frank
Stahlseele
what adventure is that?
Kagetenshi
One of the Missions adventures.

By that I mean one of the adventures from the Missions book, not the confusingly-named campaign.

~J
Snow_Fox
It's been a while since i read it, but as I remember it, what happened was that there was a mission on Mars when the awakening came and the main ship had a massive system failure, only part of the team made it back and everything was hushed up and, in the panic that v followed the awakening, forgotten. What are a fewefunky pics on another world when you're own planet's turned upside down?
Fix-it
QUOTE (st0023kr)
I got the book Augmentation and came up with a few question.

I understand that you can use nanotech to build small items.
If you can send nanotech to build several items does it matter as to the
amount of programs that it has or guidence.

I was thinking of using nanotech droped in a certain area in the ocean
asto build work habatits nothing below 500 feet.
Is this possible? For mining and secret research into R&D?

Is this also possible to use this tech to mine in space and build habatits.
Send out a probe to an astroid, the nanobots mine it for resources then
send ore back to earth.

Can nanobots also be sent to the moon, or other places in the solar system for
research or setting up space stations and instalizations?

Also is there going to be any more info on Mars in Shadowrun?
What the Big D did in his will made me think that there should be more research on mars in the general public. Any ideas??????????

Go read "The Diamond Age" by Neil Stephenson.
kigmatzomat
One issue with nano-devices in space is radiation. There's a lot of high energy particles bouncing around in space and nano devices are small enough to be impacted negatively. That high voltage surge when an energetic photon slams into a nano device will be messy.

It's not as much of a problem on mars or venus where there's an atmosphere but the asteroid belt is pretty much offlimits for nanites.

Which is not to say that a nanite-based deepspace probe isn't possible but that it will require copious amounts of shielding to ensure the nanites don't get fried.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Fix-it)
Go read "The Diamond Age" by Neil Stephenson.

Seconded. It will simultaneously entertain you, demonstrate to you why post-cyberpunk must be resisted and cast down wherever it arises (regardless of how entertaining it may be), and make clear to you why proliferation of nanotechnology in Shadowrun is a horrible, horrible idea.

~J
Fix-it
QUOTE (kigmatzomat)
One issue with nano-devices in space is radiation. There's a lot of high energy particles bouncing around in space and nano devices are small enough to be impacted negatively. That high voltage surge when an energetic photon slams into a nano device will be messy.

It's not as much of a problem on mars or venus where there's an atmosphere but the asteroid belt is pretty much offlimits for nanites.

Which is not to say that a nanite-based deepspace probe isn't possible but that it will require copious amounts of shielding to ensure the nanites don't get fried.

sorry to resurrect this topic, but I need to make a point here:

the whole idea of making nanites is that you can manufacture millions of them. losing one or two (thousand) to high energy particles isn't going to affect your mission capability. the extreme redundancy of having so many units makes this a lot less risky than sending one big, over-engineered
probe. (see: the viking landers).
Slump
Except that those highly energetic photons arn't alone. Enough of them will come at once to eliminate an entire colony of nanites. You also have a problem trying to power those nanties without frying them. Inside the human body, you could probably work up some sort of wacky system to utilize your own energy source (atp, blood sugar, whatever), but outside of a living thing, you have problems. In space, it's even worse. So you set up a solar panel which shades the nanites and provides power, but how are you going to get the power to the nanites? You can't beam it, as that would likely fry your nanites. So you have to use wires, but how much power can an individual nanite store? I'm willing to bet it's "not enough," At this point, you have a crazy contraption that is made up of a giant array of solar panels danging trillions of microscopic nanites from hundreds of miles of extremly fine wire.

How is that better?
Stahlseele
QUOTE
and make clear to you why proliferation of nanotechnology in Shadowrun is a horrible, horrible idea

nanoforge or however that stuff is called, make enough cutters to get enough raw-materials of the surroundings and have them transport the raw materials into the nanoforge to make more cutters and violent, you've got a nice and clean Grey Goo Scenario *g*
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (Fix-it)


the whole idea of making nanites is that you can manufacture millions of them. losing one or two (thousand) to high energy particles isn't going to affect your mission capability. the extreme redundancy of having so many units makes this a lot less risky than sending one big, over-engineered
probe. (see: the viking landers).

I was mainly thinking of solar storms and the occasional (and as yet unpredictable) deep space gamma ray bursts. Some of the gamma bursts have been horribly powerful. Solar storms will probably be the more common threat and they can take out macro-tech satellites.

Both phenomena are large enough (volume of space) to have a high likelihood of crippling or destroying an entire nanite cloud. Since individual nanites are idiots, if enough of the cloud is damage or dispersed, the entire system fails. All it takes is a sufficiently long disruption of communication for a bulk of the nanites to drift out of range to kill the cloud.
Fix-it
QUOTE (Slump)
Except that those highly energetic photons arn't alone. Enough of them will come at once to eliminate an entire colony of nanites. You also have a problem trying to power those nanties without frying them. Inside the human body, you could probably work up some sort of wacky system to utilize your own energy source (atp, blood sugar, whatever), but outside of a living thing, you have problems. In space, it's even worse. So you set up a solar panel which shades the nanites and provides power, but how are you going to get the power to the nanites? You can't beam it, as that would likely fry your nanites. So you have to use wires, but how much power can an individual nanite store? I'm willing to bet it's "not enough," At this point, you have a crazy contraption that is made up of a giant array of solar panels danging trillions of microscopic nanites from hundreds of miles of extremly fine wire.

I think you need to do some research on power density scaling, robot design, solar power, and the deep-space radiation enviroment. then get back to me.

QUOTE

I was mainly thinking of solar storms and the occasional (and as yet unpredictable) deep space gamma ray bursts. Some of the gamma bursts have been horribly powerful. Solar storms will probably be the more common threat and they can take out macro-tech satellites.

Both phenomena are large enough (volume of space) to have a high likelihood of crippling or destroying an entire nanite cloud. Since individual nanites are idiots, if enough of the cloud is damage or dispersed, the entire system fails. All it takes is a sufficiently long disruption of communication for a bulk of the nanites to drift out of range to kill the cloud.


I don't see how any of these problems could not be circumvented by simple design features.

EM shielding on the nano scale isn't hard when you can custom place molecules in 3 dimensions.

GRBs have not been a problem in 50 years of space travel, for any vehicle, manned or unmanned. gamma, solar, and x rays could even PROVIDE energy in a nanite.

you guys are fighting a losing argument here. what you're saying is that "We can't do it now, so we won't be able to solve it in the future."
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Fix-it)
EM shielding on the nano scale isn't hard when you can custom place molecules in 3 dimensions.

Um? Yes, yes it is—you might want to double-check how radiation shielding works. Even depleted uranium has a halving thickness of 2mm, which is totally unfeasible for this sort of application (and halving is almost certainly not good enough).

~J
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