Hey, I know a lot of people are underwhelmed by technomancers as written, and I was throwing around some ideas for making them a little better last night. thought I'd throw them up here and see what people thought or if there's something I'm totally missing. This is just an idea for a simple fix that would make them worth playing in comparison to a hacker.

Basically, let technomancers buy complex forms like spells for 3 BP. They are then usable at a rating up to your resonance without any additional actions or cost. Threading can boost them up to resonance x2, but if you have bought it, you don't need to sustain the threading. Instead, threading a form you know to a higher level lasts for a duration of resonance combat turns. Also, make fading from threading a form have a DV = new Complex Form rating/2.

This lets them buy a few programs at a level a hacker can't touch out of the gate, but unless they drop over 50 BP on forms, they can't have them all. It also keeps them from losing too much of their dice pools to forms they don't have, crippling them.

This would work especially well if you're using the logic+skill rolls for hacking rather than the RAW skill+program/form, since technos would be able to do the amazing that a hacker can't touch, but a hacker can go for the cyber to boost logic and dice pools that would set a techno back.

Edited for spelling.

I don't think technos need to be able to outgun hackers out of the gates, because they have greater potential than hackers in the long run. Giving them more starting power /and/ more potential power just makes the hackers irrelevant.

As it is, a starting techno can get his stealth up to 9 or 10 with a good threading roll when hacking a system, giving him a damned good chance of getting admin access on even rating 5 systems and far outperforming anything a hacker can do

The as writen matrix rules make me sad. As it is a Hacker will beat a technomancer every time because a Technomancer cannot stand up to a hacker in Matrix Combat. They just get the crap kicked out of them straight away. Stealth in the Matrix has a bad mechanic, where finding hidden icons is an extended test. The system gets a limited number of chances to find an intruder as he is getting in, meaning that having a high Stealth is a requirement to sneak in to higher end nodes. But a user has an unlimited nmber of chances and will thus eventually find any opponent - higher stealth simply buys extra time and not very much time at that.

So if there's a security hacker on the other side, he will find a technomancer and he will defeat him in cybercombat. The technomancer can really only accomplish anything by sending Sprites or attacking unoccupied networks. Meanwhile the sprites are a fucking joke. The Fault Sprite can't fight at all, because it only rolls negative one die for Matrix Perception and doesn't have Edge - so it will literally never find any opponent and cannot make attacks.

But that's all just numbers. The real problem is that the technomancer doesn't do anything special. Sprite powers aren't well defined enough or interesting enough to actually constitute a real difference you'd care about. Especially with Agents coming in practically limitless amounts, the advantages of sprites just aren't that interesting. A technomancer really is just a hacker with slightly different numbers. And instead of spending thousands of to get there (upwards of 20 BP!) they spend hundreds or thousands of BP and Karma. It's just sad. It's not a good exchange rate.

And honestly, it can't be. The ability to spend massive amounts, or even reasonable amounts of Karma to get something that anyone can purchase over the counter for laundry money is just never ever going to be impressive. We aren't impressed with Mages because they can shoot fire bolts, we're impressed because they can astrally project and levitate heavy objects silently.

-Frank

I really do not think Technomancers should be good in Cybercombat. They suck hard, but that's not they field of play anyway. Given, the Perception thingy sucks bigtime, still haven't found a good solution for this one.

What makes them good is their flexibility. They can do shit, but a rating 5 Sprite can can do whatever they suck at. Well, not in combat, but... well... you get it

Oh my good... I posted after Frank... don't troll me... please... I have family

Personally I think that Technomancer shouldn't be something in between hackers and Matrix-mages. They shouldn't be threading hacker's programs but technomancer's complex forms (which should be distinct from hacker's programs, like the sprites' powers), just like a mage doesn't magically build an Ares Predator but casts a Manabolt spell.

Here's a complaint about hackers, with the addition of augmentation. Hackers/Riggers can get 4 passes out the gate with another 13 BP worth of gear, and its only a rating 8 availability. NOBODY else gets 4 init passes out the gate in any plane of existance, and anybody else to get there needs to spend large amounts of karma or massive amounts of nuyen. 13 karma for the Technomancer to submerse and overclock. So now drones can have 4 passes out the gate, and hackers can have 4 passes out the gate. [/RANT]

Just looked like something that wasn't well planned.

I can't recommend that. Makes threading something in between pointless and weird to handle (Drain). Also, the focus of TMs should be Sprites, not Complex Forms. IMO.

Wow, lots of replies, I picked a bad day to have a lot of homework.

@NightRain: I see hackers as being able to go multipurpose more than technos, so don't really have a problem with the idea of them being better than hackers at their one thing, but you raise a good point. Hackers have access to a lot of cyberware, however, which raises their dice pools rather quickly to levels technos would have a hard time reaching in a decent length campaign, so I think it balances to an extent.

@Frank: Actually, it was your house rules thread that got me thinking about this. I took your idea that hacking should work more like magic, and literally this is an attempt to better technos by making them "matrix mages". I was specifically thinking of these changes in the setting of matrix actions being attribute+skill limited by program/form. This would make technos able to apply more successes than hackers (whose program are limited in rating compared to threading) while making hackers king of the dice pool but limited in successes.

I'm not seeing why a techno loses in cybercombat to hacker mechanically, help me out here? (No one has played a techno in my group.) Doesn't a Fault sprite default to pilot rating (which equals rating, -1 for defaulting maybe) for matrix perception using the agent rules? And I don't know that I would make a sprite roll to perceive the IC construct that's pummeling them. Faults also seem to be designed to assist a techno in cybercombat, not necessarily to be sent on remote to attack something (though maybe they were designed the other way and just fail).

@Malicant: I agree they suck right now, and they're mostly good for sprites, but that's the whole reason to rework them...

@Blade: That would be better, but takes a lot more time to write than I have right now.

I'll work on a build of a techno using these rules, but I haven't had a chance to playtest them yet.

Anyone have thoughts on a different way to rewrite them? I know Frank is working on a complete matrix section rewrite, and I'm looking forward to seeing it.