Comments/Criticisms/Suggestions welcome.

Base plan is to have him utilize turn to goo to harvest people unconsciously, taking their cyberware in the process. Take them over to his body buyer, and from there, profit. Transport is done via his warded van, with a barrel in the back that the goo goes in.

Collector
Dwarf 25bp

Bod 3 10bp
Agi 3 20bp
Rea 3(4) 20bp
Str 3 0bp
Cha 3 20bp
Int 3 20bp
Log 5(7) 40bp
Wil 6 40bp

Init 6, 2IP
Edge 3 20bp
Magic 6(5) 65bp
Essence 6(5)

Qualities 0bp
Magician(Chaos Magic, Will+Log) 15bp
Focused Concentration 2 20bp

Gremlins 1 -5bp
Sinner -10bp
Scorched -5bp
Sensitive Neural Structure -5bp
Spirit Bane (Watchers) -10bp

Skills
Active
Spellcasting 5 20bp
Counterspelling 5 20bp
Infiltration 3 12bp
Negotiation 3 12bp

Knowledge
Biology 6
Slums 6
Safehouses 6
Tamanous 6

Language
English N

Spells 24bp
Stunbolt -1
Decrease Body +1
Detect Life Extended +2
Levitate +1
Turn To Goo +2
Diagnose +0
Agony -2
Sterilize +2

Gear 28bp 140k
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit 500
GMC Bulldog Step-Van 35k

Cyberware
Cybereyes 1 0.2 500
+Thermo 1k
+Vision Mag 1k

Bioware
Cerebral Booster 2 0.4 20k
Synaptic Booster 1 0.5 80k

Low Lifestyle(One Month) 2k

Contacts 4bp
Tamanous Body Buyer (1 Loy/3 Con)

Sounds well thought out, just let me warn you against the regular dangers of organlegging. Notoriety is a big one. Another is the possibility of not getting as many jobs, and general dislike from others, which may include assassination attempts, ambushes, betrayl from Mr.Johnson, etc. Sounds good otherwise, just remember that turn to goo turns too goo. The goo has a barrier test. But you are probably aware of all this... So, happy (head)hunting!

Yeah, goo, with cyberware not affected. Thusly, they're goo, you pull the cyber out of the gooey mess, levitate the goo into the barrel, and you have pristine condition cyber, and once you stop sustaining the goo, a mostly pristine body for harvesting.

The barrier test remains. You can't simply reach into goo. It's more like a solid mass of molasses or coagulated blood than it is the slimey goo we think of. The barrier rating can be as high as a cement wall for trolls, and I can't imagine you getting cyberware out of cement wall unharmed. We just argued this in another thread about organ legging.

I treat the goo from turn to goo like a non-newtonian fluid. Gooey and thin normally but when pressure is applied it resists and turns basically solid. If anyone played with Oobleck as an elementary student they will know that with a certain amount of care and gentle manipulation you can remove things from non-newtonian fluids with little to no problem, it just takes awhile. If you tried to shove your hand in quickly it would be like hitting a brick freaking wall,(or whatever the barrier rating is equal to), however if you take your time or set up a sieve or what have you then it functions as a very think liquid.

At least, that is the way I personally reconcile the spell description and the spell mechanics. Helps it makes sense with current physics.

Chris

Alternately, replace levitate with Shape Goo, and shape them out of the cyberware.

Huh, I really expected some kind of response on the whole non-newtonian goo idea I had. Apparently I am the only one that cares.

Chris

I'd always considered it to be very similar to the non-newtonian fluid myself, I guess I just assumed most people did.

Well, for most people: Wiki on Non-Newtonian Fluids

Non-newtonian fluid is the way I roll, too. Here's the Mythbusters playing around with one such fluid.

If a ward is moved in relation to its anchor it is destroyed. The anchor is the van itself. Now, if you hit it with a wrecking ball and took out the roof, then the ward would be disrupted.

wasn't there a bit that the anchor could not be moved without destroying a ward too?

Again, can't be moved in relation to the ward. I make the anchor some kinda inscribation on the floor of the van. If someone tears up the carpet/burns it/removes the inscription, then the ward is disrupted as well.

And if I instead went for a Shape Goo spell instead of levitate? Does that make it quick and easy?

It should never be quick and easy. Organleggers, even pros, should need time to do their thing. Cyberware, when out of the body, should be easy to damage, and when in the body should be difficult to remove. No amount of magic or tech should make it quick and easy. At least not without an entire factory dedicated to gently sifting through gooey remains like gold panning machines.

Because you say so? Why shouldn't turn to goo + shape goo = removed cyber?

I'm a big fan of using the drive shaft casing as the anchor for my warded van. Someone moves that in relation to the rest of the van and as I understand it, it is basically totalled anyway.

Chris

Precise effects of Turn to Goo are totally a GM call.

I favor the ruling that many use for Shapeshift: if it has an Essense cost, it becomes part of your body's aura pattern, and when you're shapeshifted, it goes the same place that your teeth go when you Shapeshift into a bird... dunno where that is, but it's for sure Not Available during the spell's duration.

Meanwhile, I recommend that you take the computer you're using to read this, pour some Oobleck or other non-Newtownian goo into it, then scrape the goo out, and see for yourself whether there's any impact on its functionality (and thus its resale value). If your PC is only casting Turn to Goo on corpses whose cyberware is safely shut down at time of Gooing, then you get to turn off your computer before filling it with goo. Afterwards, please post your observations and results., preferably using the same computer. Good luck with that!

As for Simon May's professor... he's just flat-out wrong. Agreement is agreement. Sometimes silence is just disgust, or "different strokes for different strokes and thank God you're not my GM". If EVERY user of Dumpshock posted EVERY time they disagreed with a post, the results would reduce the usability of Dumpshock.

I would liken it more to taking your video card, sealing it off in some way, letting it sink into a non-newtonian fluid and then dredging it out. Either Cyberware has to be water friendly or it had to be sealed from the system or you would get shocked all the damn time. Also, we aren't, or at least I'm not, saying you go *yank* and it is out and pristine. I think that if you take your time(talking several combat turns, maybe 30 seconds or so) and ease it out of the fluid, or let the fluid slowly sieve off of the cyber while you are elsewhere, then you can let it go back to flesh take MORE time and MORE care and carefully remove all the flesh you can, THEN sell it. That, in my game, would probably get you about 10-20% of the cyber's cost, maybe a little more depends on your contacts and of course your ability to negotiate. It would take time, planning, and increase your chances of getting caught, but it would have a payoff.

i would tend to think that the use of a sieve would apply the full weight of the body onto many small, delicate components for the record.

i would also houserule (and wonder why it needs to even *be* a houserule in the first place) that cyber also becomes goo.

Bah, the fact that Turn to Goo flies in the face of the Magical Theory as it has been presented in the Sixth World still bothers me to no end. I want the ability to make someone's left pinky finger explode or at least the ability to turn someone's implanted cyberware into acid.

I think the big difference in time between us and the reason I don't see a sieve as damaging is that I imagine cyber as being pretty damn tough. Now, maybe not the beta or delta ware because it is so integrated.

To me, cyberware isn't some ephemeral collection of delicate wires and circuits. It is rip out a hunk or your body and replace it with metal durable. I mean hell, if I went to my local old folks home tonight and killed some old man, I could use kitchen utensils and take the pacemaker out of his chest in mostly usably condition. It takes massive amounts of time and care when implanting that stuff not because IT is delicate, but because you are trying not to damage all the fragile human tissue around it.

Wired Reflexes aren't nanotech to me they are "neural boosters and adrenalin stimulators" in strategic nerve clusters and glands all over the body. Which says to me that they are chunks of metal that do two different things. Neural Boosters create a flow of positive ions to major nerve clusters that create excitatory post synaptic potentials which basically means that your neurons in that area would always be just on the edge of firing instead of at rest like normal. The adrenalin stimulators are just that, they stimulate the body to produce and release copious amounts of adrenalin thus increasing reaction speed.

Since this is the way I think of these things, it makes sense to me that it would be little to no problem to take them out of a dead person relatively quickly provided you don't care about mess, or in the case of Turn to Goo have a bit to deal with the fluid or have a sieve you can drop it on. Because of the way sieves distribute force from gravity and the returning normal force there is no reason that it would damage the cyber unless the cyber would be damage by a fall. Hell, it would be less force than a fall, actually.

Anyway, I don't know why I keep talking. I admit having the cyber goo as well would be a lot easier and it is probably what will happen in my game when someone gets the spell, but that is more for balance reasons and ease of use(mainly the latter) than because I don't think it should work. I see no reason for this to be a problem to DO, given a small amount of time and preparation. Keep in mind, the 30 seconds to remove from goo without damage isn't getting it CLEAN, it is getting it out of the goo. It would still have bits and pieces all over it that would convert to meat when you drop the spell. Then you have to clean THAT off.(can anyone say organic substance only acids?) But this is the way I see Tamanous doing alot of their work. Sieve out 4 or 5 corpses at a time, when they fall all the way through to the trough at the bottom you can release the spell and the ghouls can come get it.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, just my thoughts.

Chris

I'd be cool with this character honestly; however it would be in a much darker toned campaign. Obviously.

I like the Farstar and Glyph mentioned as well. I'd rule it as a non-newtonian liquid, that you'd need to take some time picking around the goo, and that certain pieces of cyber you'd have to leave to the ripper docs after you drop the spell; like the hard to get to or fine nerve-ware or whatnot. Cyberlimbs, eyes, commlinks, things that you can pluck out without breaking them i'd be quite ok with. In addition, the higher grade of ware, the longer it will take and the more delicate(im not sure how someone would tell by looking, but perhaps you'd find out by trying. ''Hmm...let me pull this *snap* oops....'', making it so you're REAL careful in trying, 'just in case' I dont think Beta or Delta this way is really viable; aren't they basically attuned to each person?(im forgetting my SR4 lore, and its been awhile since ive had to deal with either of those ratings).

I do like the Turn to Goo spell to be honest, but it DOES leave a lot up to each GM, and its rare that I find alot of GMs that actually agree on how this damn spell works. Give it too much leeway and it becomes crazy, too little leeway and its useless, and you don't want either one.

So far no ones really addressed my question that if I swap levitate for Shape Goo, could I then turn them to goo, and then shape their gooform via the spell around whilst leaving the cyber completely intact?

I would argue that shape goo allows you to mold parts of the body much as a child does play-doh. Trying to do fine things with it and pull it out of small crevices on cyberware would still be difficult, but if you wanted to build a statue of king kong around it, you could do that.

More like, I have the goo move 5 meters away, it affects magic in meters of goo, thats a persons worth, all the goo is over there, and all the cyber is now in a heap.

The goo still has a barrier rating. Why wouldn't the goo drag the cyber with it? I would assume it works a little like a snowplow if used that way: sure the snow is moved, but so are all the leaves, sleds, and bodies of dead boys mixed in.

It still seems to be a GM call, regardless. That's just my reading.

Because my shape goo spell can't move the cyberware? So I shape the goo however I need to in order to get the cyberware out of it. Whether I tell the goo to shape into a spaghetti noodle thats really long, or whatever i need to to make it such that the 'ware comes out.

Even better, Clean Goo spell. It clears all impurities out of the volume of the goo. Meaning the spell gets all the cyberware out for me.

Clean Goo should work I would think. I still like the idea of this guy having a vat of acid that only affects organic material. Levitate it out with some goo attached drop turn to goo, drop cyber in vat to clean off bits of flesh.

Chris

Who ever said acid? I figure, just sustain the turn to goo spell and throw 'em in a bucket, then unsustain when at the docs.

This brings up a good question, I interpret the spell when it says "sticky, glue-like substance" to mean very much like glue. Meaning it wouldn't hold its shape, but would rather slowly slump to a big puddle on the floor with cyber laying about in it.

I think Turn to Goo + Shape Goo would work fine. Also, you might think about Sterilize to get rid of those annoying bits left over after you drop the Turn to Goo spell. Saves a lot of time with a toothbrush when attempting to get maximum value from your newly recovered goods! Fix might also be a spell worth looking into.

Doesn't this ignore bioware, where the big money's at? A 500-nuyen datajack vs. a 90,000-nuyen adrenalin pump and all that.

Turn to Goo only ignores cyberware.

I do have sterlize. Fix is a good idea though.

Funk, turning them to goo doesn't kill them. Just makes them unconcious while they are goo form. He takes the cyber + goo to his contact, via diagnose already knows what bio is in them (cast it before goo) and voila.

You can get it used, so obviously you can.

Ahh ... I found the appropriate section. I was thinking of Cultured Bioware.

Hmm, makes me wonder if Aztechnology has looked into Goo as a form of nutrient paste for the growing ghoul market? Kinda like flavored soy paste, but different. I can hear the jingle now, "Yummy yummy, soylent green in your tummy!"

I don't think a "shape goo" spell would be able to remove cyberware from the goo. You could, for example, spread the goo out onto a thin sheet or puddle, but the cyberware would still be stuck to it. Just as the shape water spell doesn't let you filter the salt out of seawater, the shape goo spell would be limited in utility.

But why not simply make a more specific spell, such as a "delicately sift cyberware out of goo" spell? I mean, if you're going to have to create a brand-new spell already, you might as well make one that does exactly what you want it to.

I also wonder if the Fix spell might be a good investment. Cyberware may be incredibly delicate, but other than things like cyberlimbs, it doesn't weigh much. And you will usually have all of the "pieces" of the 'ware.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole point of turning them to goo is just to get the cyber/ bio out... and if your going to design a spell why not just design one that specifically removes the cyberware and or bioware without bothering to learn turn to goo? You may have to design 2 spells to get it done, one for cyber and one for bio.
you could also design remove targeted cyber (for getting rid of cranial bombs, this may be specific spell but I can't remember off the top of my head how they work when trying to remove them, and other such negative/obsolete ware) and remove all cyber for harvesting.

The reason to avoid designing spells, is to keep the character by the book and thusly mostly portable to most games. Shape goo and clean goo would not be new spells, but "delicately sift cyberware from goo" would be.

How would shape goo and clean goo not be new spells? Just because they have shape/clean element spells doesn't mean that shape/clean spells for everything else exist. And neither would be any use to you. Shape goo would let you make snot castles out of the goop, but wouldn't let you sort cyberware out of it any more than shape earth would let you pan for gold, or even find a lost contact lens. Clean goo would get rid of the non-goo items, not separate them out.

@Sion_Smee: You can't specifically target cyberware. Which Turn to Goo does, in a way, but I agree with Ravor that Turn to Goo violates the rules of magic as set forth in the books.

I don't care to weigh in on the goo shaping debate

I am also from the essence cost = part of you school of thought, ergo, turn to goo turns the entire person to goo, everything they paid essence for included.

Ok I forgot that you cannot target things essence was spent on but does the you cannot target cyber because it was paid for with essence argument still hold when the target is a corpse? It is the main theme of the thread after all.
Or have I missed a more specific ruling?