Dumpshock Forums > Possible Power Source for cyber

Jpwoo

Nov 26 2003, 08:28 PM

Those space conscious Japanese are at it again.

This article on SMH.com talks about using glucose in human blood to generate power. It is very vague. Sure would beat having to go into surgery to put a battery in your wired reflexes switch. Or in a more practical term your pacemaker.

Cray74

Nov 26 2003, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Jpwoo)

Those space conscious Japanese are at it again.

This article on SMH.com talks about using glucose in human blood to generate power. It is very vague. Sure would beat having to go into surgery to put a battery in your wired reflexes switch. Or in a more practical term your pacemaker.

Hell, yeah. This is the sort of thing I've been advocating.

Too many times - especially in SR/BT - you see cyberware powered by "bioelectricity," as if (meta)humans were eels or something. Nerves might use electrical signals, but they generate no electrical power to speak of, a tiny fraction of a watt.

Zolhex

Nov 26 2003, 10:56 PM

great first this then we all end up in the Matrix LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry off topic but it is a funny thing to think about.

Tziluthi

Nov 27 2003, 01:31 AM

I still don't see why the machines didn't use cows for the matrix. I mean, it'd make more sense. You'd just have a huge grazing field.

Ol' Scratch

Nov 27 2003, 01:35 AM

One thing I've always noticed about Shadowrun is that cyberware didn't start working well until after the Awakening despite attempts to do so even today. The same Awakening that caused people to gain the ability to infuse themselves and others with energy simply by sheer act of will.

So in my mind, I have absolutely no problem with "Essence" being a representation of a heightened energy within all living beings, enough that technology can easily be powered off of it (even if they don't quite understand how or why it does so, or let alone that the two are even remotely connected).

I'm obviously not one of the "technology and magic aren't compatible" people, either. Nor am I saying that cyberware is magic. I'm just saying the same thing that makes magic possible makes cyberware possible.

DigitalMage

Nov 27 2003, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (Cray74)

Too many times - especially in SR/BT - you see cyberware powered by "bioelectricity," as if (meta)humans were eels or something. Nerves might use electrical signals, but they generate no electrical power to speak of, a tiny fraction of a watt.

I always took it to mean that the energy was being "generated" (very efficiently) from kinetic energy.

Man eats food (Chemical Energy) which is converted into heat and movement (kinetic energy) which the cyber converts into electrical energy.

El_Machinae

Nov 27 2003, 02:17 PM

QUOTE (Tziluthi)

I still don't see why the machines didn't use cows for the matrix. I mean, it'd make more sense. You'd just have a huge grazing field.

Because the line about needing humans for power was obviously wrong. It was a placebo for the masses who don't understand free will (and thermodynamics).

The machines kept the people around as a way of generating new ideas. Only humans have imagination, the machines didn't. And 6.000.000 people have a lot of imagination.

Cray74

Nov 27 2003, 04:43 PM

QUOTE (DigitalMage)

QUOTE (Cray74 @ Nov 26 2003, 09:49 PM)

Too many times - especially in SR/BT - you see cyberware powered by "bioelectricity," as if (meta)humans were eels or something. Nerves might use electrical signals, but they generate no electrical power to speak of, a tiny fraction of a watt.

I always took it to mean that the energy was being "generated" (very efficiently) from kinetic energy.

Man eats food (Chemical Energy) which is converted into heat and movement (kinetic energy) which the cyber converts into electrical energy.

"Lostech" for Mechwarrior RPG introduces a sort of muscle replacement cyberware (crude compared to SR). The muscle replacements induce a lot of headaches due to the drain on nerves. So, IMO, the writer was thinking of getting electricity straight from nerves.

Lilt

Nov 27 2003, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (El_Machinae)

QUOTE (Tziluthi @ Nov 27 2003, 01:31 AM)

I still don't see why the machines didn't use cows for the matrix. I mean, it'd make more sense. You'd just have a huge grazing field.

Because the line about needing humans for power was obviously wrong. It was a placebo for the masses who don't understand free will (and thermodynamics).

The machines kept the people around as a way of generating new ideas. Only humans have imagination, the machines didn't. And 6.000.000 people have a lot of imagination.

Also: it was nicely ironic. Anyway: The machines have big hovering baloon-assed robots (which I henceforth dub 'balloon buttbots'), and there is still sun high-up (as the 3rd movie can testifies to).

They could presumably just use high altitude baloon-buttbots with solar collectors to provide power. Even better: the black smog stuff will absorb tremeandous amounts of energy as it is, if you could tap the energy from the smog (using baloon-buttbott windmills or similar) you'd have a great power source.

Solidcobra

Nov 27 2003, 06:48 PM

but since the robots are evil at heart (DUH! Who's heard of non-evil intelligent robots? huh? HUH?) they found using humans much more.... evil..... MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

spotlite

Nov 27 2003, 06:55 PM

I beleive the reason could be that deep down they still feel the need to care and provide for the humans because its part of their core programming to do so.

This is based on stuff in Animatrix, and on the assumption that power isn't the primary reason, since in reloaded the architect states that there are levels of existence they can live with if they don't use humans for power. I haven't seen the 3rd movie yet, but I do beleive his threat to wipe out all humans permanently to be a bit of an empty one.

Are we supposed to be talking about this here?

krishcane

Nov 27 2003, 06:57 PM

Not to mention that the machines apparently forgot how to build nuclear reactors for power, even though they can build levitating squid-bots and even the humans have cool maglev floating vector thrust craft. How many humans would it take to output the heat of one nuclear reactor? And hey, how do they feed the humans if there's no sunlight to grow food? Humans use energy. We don't generate it.

--K

spotlite

Nov 27 2003, 06:59 PM

er, in the very first film they explain that they feed the dead humans to the live ones.

Moonstone Spider

Nov 28 2003, 03:37 AM

That still basically feeds the laws of thermodynamics to the lions.

An adult human male has roughly 80 pounds of muscle tissue. I suppose you can derive nourishment from the organs as well so let's just assume the entire human is good edible meat, and figure double the muscle in food. Further lets assume this contains all the nutrition a human needs and ignore carb requirments. A human needs at least a pound of food with every meal, so figure 3 pounds a day.

This means each dead person can feed a living person for a little less than a month. Every year your total supply of humans must therefore go down by a factor of 12 (Let's be generous and make it 10.)

Year 1: 6 million humans
Year 2: 600,000 humans
Year 3: 60,000 humans
Year 4: 6,000 humans
Year 5: 600 humans
Past that: The robots are so screwed.

Sepherim

Nov 28 2003, 12:50 PM

Machines can't use the sun-light, IMO, because of the storm that exists right beneath the clouds and that destroys anything mechanical that gets near (as it appears in Revolutions).

Cray74

Nov 28 2003, 01:54 PM

QUOTE (Sepherim)

Machines can't use the sun-light, IMO, because of the storm that exists right beneath the clouds and that destroys anything mechanical that gets near (as it appears in Revolutions).

Sure. But you still gotta wonder about nukes, geothermal, wind, tidal, wave-action, hydroelectric, etc.

nezumi

Nov 28 2003, 03:01 PM

QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

This means each dead person can feed a living person for a little less than a month. Every year your total supply of humans must therefore go down by a factor of 12 (Let's be generous and make it 10.)

Year 1: 6 million humans
Year 2: 600,000 humans
Year 3: 60,000 humans
Year 4: 6,000 humans
Year 5: 600 humans
Past that: The robots are so screwed.

Actually, that's a common way of looking at it in agriculture: How many pounds of feed equal how many pounds of food. Chickens are about 7:1 (7 pounds of grain makes 1 pound of edible meat). Cows are about 12:1. I believe humans are around 20:1.

Yeah, nearest I can guess is the robots are actually nice and still have a sweet spot for us. They enforce that in Animatrix, and they say that at first they tried to make a happy, perfect universe for us. If you think about it, the 'good guys' in the story are trying to steal people from the closest we can get to paradise and bring them into a world of starvation, darkness and poverty. The fact that the robots will happily kill one or two people makes sense (good of the many) and still lets them be relatively kind hearted.

No, I haven't seen the third movie, but don't worry about spoiling it for me.

spotlite

Nov 28 2003, 05:32 PM

QUOTE (nezumi)

No, I haven't seen the third movie, but don't worry about spoiling it for me.

What he said. I've only been waiting all year with circumstances conspiring against me for three weeks to get in the way of me going to see it. I don't mind. >sob< Go right ahead. >sniffle, choke<.