I don't see the fun in them not being the only, all-mighty privileged ones. It provides a distinct and objective division in capability and future prospect, but any hatred caused by this is most likely to fall on the Elves who aren't "in the club".

~J

You did ask "why not" in the initial post

~J

If 99% of roleplayers really hated elves, they wouldn't be glorified everywhere, included in so many games, or nearly as popular as they are. I'd say your sample size needs to be enlarged, your sample group is skewed, or your idea of what "seems" to be is otherwise horribly off.

It's your idea, dude. Make a suggestion or something.

I guess I was unclear. I know my sample size is not representative. I was just offering anecdotal observation.

it's also been mentioned in the novel series of germany in the shadows or whatever it is called in english. the dwarven underground kingdom of hwaldos, deep beneath the coal mines of western germany. specifically REM the dwarf hails from there.
also it's been hinted that this kingdom has ALLWAYS BEEN THERE . . so they might be immortal dwarves from the 4th world and hwaldos may very well be an kaer

Thank goodness I'm not alone. In another thread, I've got someone insulting my intelligence because I think it's morally acceptable to dislike people on account of their race in instances where that race is fictitious. In other words:

My character is racist against elves---that's not ok
I'm racist against elves---perfectly acceptable

That's where I stand, anyway. I really don't see a problem with it.

my characters(read: all of them[exceptions:the one or two proof of concept elf-characters i built just to show that i can if i want to]) are racist against elves because I am racist against elves . . perfectly fine with me *g*

Minor correction: Garlthik was such a great thief that every night he stole another day of life from Death. That ork was hard-core.

You haven't read it in a sourcebook because it originally was part of a non-canonical novel trilogy. It caused major uproar within the german player community and some of "us" hoped that it would stay in those novels, just as other had hoped that Drakes would stay there when Ryan Mercury made his appearance in the Dragonheart trilogy.

However, in later german publications (i.e. Deutschland in den Schatten II, another german sourcebook with 300+ pages) the dwarven kingdom, including REM who had claims to the throne heritage of said kingdom, were mentioned. Luckily (at least to me), most of it only as part of Shadow Talk. So its actual existance (as well as "immortal" dwarfs or rather a community of dwarves that dwelved there even during the down cycle of mana) is still subject of debate. It could as well be a urban legend within the shadowrun universe (and I for one am treating it exactly that way).

No, hardcore would be if he kept stealing life one night at a time.

This is the sort of approach I would take. Rather than try to come up with the equivalent of IEs for other metatypes, brainstorm reasons why other individuals (of any metatype) might have gained some form of immortality that preserved them through the Fifth Age.

So, Garlthik is an immortal ork, still wandering the 6th world, who gained his longevity b/c he was so scared of death (or otherwise cursed). Maybe you have a small group of dwarves who were somehow bound to earth elementals, gaining immortality -- although the waning of magic might have turned them to stone until the mana returned.

Similarly, perhaps an immortal troll ran afoul of Great Dragon in some earlier era and bears some sort of undying curse. Vampires, blood mages, or some cabal of ultrapowerful mages might have found a way to survive during the low-magic times (or sealed themselves away in an undiscovered kaer or something, only to reawaken recently).

Maybe you have a human cursed with a form of powerful regeneration -- he can be killed, but eventually his body regenerates. Due to brain death his memories are partially erased each time, depending on how much brain tissue had to be grown "new". The regeneration could have moved slowly (taking decades or centuries) during the low-magic era, so he only experienced a few "life-times" during the past few millenia.

These individual explanations allow for immortals of other metatypes without seriously screwing with the metaplot or adding in whole races of immortals.

And stealing a few nights with Death's wife for good measure. Hardcore!

That would probably be enough to make me quit Shadowrun.

Why? You don't have to use them. I don't have technomancers in my campaign, did not run much of the metaplot since years. Bug city and Renraku arcology shut down were squashed by the UCAS military within a few days to a week, not left lingering for months, Leonardo never existed, Dunkie's campaign is in limbo, etc.

Because they would then officially exist in the world, and included in all future material, maybe even to a major degree. I would have to adapt too much to take out an entire race. I also wouldn't get the nearly same enjoyment I do now from reading everything I can about Shadowrun, when I have to edit and change things as I read.

What, seriously? What's the point in paying for something if you're going to tear most of it out?

~J

That's a new one on me, but then my ED collection is far from complete. Him and J'role are the reason my first ED character was a thief. Mostly I think Garlthrik was so hardcore he deserves to survive till the 6th world.

I use most of it - the rules, and many of the ideas. I used both Bug City and Renraku Arcology Shutdown as adventures where the runners were involved in the crucial events - I simply did assume that after a few days, the situation was under control, and that the UCAS and Ares/Renraku would not let the areas be occupied by Deus/insect spirits for months.

Leonardo never made it into any run, and on the level I am running my campaign, it does not matter if Dunkelzahn died or not - I can use the "dragon's heritage" ploy easily without Dunkelzahn dieing - or even without a dragon.

To sum it up: For my campaign, where runners deal with their troubles and runs, and don't fight to save the planet, the whole metaplot does not have much of an effect. I have megacorps rule most of the world, plot against each other, I have dark magical threats of various natures, I have violence and shades of grey.

I don't need the metaplot at all, since the world does not change significantly through it. The wireless matrix I put in as "that's how it always was", since it made more sense anyway.

You'd be surprised. That stuff doesn't really come up that often. I mean, it's been years since I've even remembered "Leonardo" existed. Personally, I'm a big fan of the Bug City book (minus the art), but for years we just didn't have it, and it was really no big deal. Once or twice over about 5 years real time, there was an offhand reference to Chicago being a "rough town" or something, but if your group's in Seattle, no biggie. And we ignored Renraku shutdown, too. That one gets a little harder, because apparently it's the Shadowrun equivalent of 9/11, where everyone just wants to keep talking about it ad nauseum. I don't know if that makes sense or not, because I never read the actual module, but it IS kind of annoying to have to "edit" this stuff out when you're reading it. The middle road I've had to choose is that I just accept that there's some good books out there, and there's some bad books out there, and setting-wise, I don't much like anything that came out after the end of 2nd edition (and I don't really care for some stuff that came out before that, either). But I don't think I'd quit over a new race I didn't like being introduced. I mean, if I was going to do that, I'd never have picked up SR in the first place, because elves are lame.

Actually playing the game comprises only a very small percentage of the enjoyment I take from Shadowrun. That pleasure would be diminished dramatically with the introduction of an entire race of insect dudes.

Insect dudes as invaders from another plane: OK
Insect dudes as residents of the game world: NO



I hate the metavariants from the companion, and they pretty much don't exist in my games. I also agree with you, and wouldn't want to see something like T'Skrang introduced as a race in Shadowrun. However, I still find the above amusing.