So I was going through character concepts. I tend to overfocus some characters just to push their limit (don't we all?). I ended up making a dwarf adept whose sole purpose in life was to open holes. I'm posting this to find out if I made a mistake somewhere, or if this is legit and thus overly powerful. Any insight will be helpful.
Race: Dwarf
Attributes:
Body 6 (8)
Agility 4
Reaction 3
Strength 6
Charisma 2
Intuition 3
Logic 4
Willpower 4
Edge 3
Essence 5.4
Magic 5 (Point not lost due to Gaes, see below)
Skills:
Unarmed Combat 4
Clubs 2
Pistols (Semi-Auto) 1/3
Dodge (Ranged) 3/5
Gynastics (Tumbling) 2/4
Perception 2
First Aid (Combat Wounds) 2/4
Pilot Ground Craft 2
Trowing Weapons 1
Athletics 1
Leadership 2
Qualities:
Adept
Toughness
Quick Healer
SINer (legal, non-criminal SIN)
Cyberware:
Bone Density 2
Adept Powers (Here's where it gets interesting):
Killing Hands
Attribute Boost (Strength) - 4
Smashing Blow - Gaes: Must move at least 2 meters before striking the object. Walking is not sufficient to meet this requirement.
Penetrating Strike
Inertia Strike
Elemental Strike (Blast)
Critical Strike - 4
Okay. So overall a decently rounded character stat/skill wise. It's when we get to unarmed damage that we have a problem.
Base damage on the character is at (Str/2+1)P from Bone Density. Now let's max this out here because of the abilities.
* 4 bonus points of strength from Attribute boost
* +4 damage from Critical Strike
* +5 Damage from Elemental strike (our game has assumed Magic as the force, as an adept can't have a Force rating on Elemental strike, and the book was nonspecific as far as we could find)
So that brings base damage to (Str/2+12)P, or 17P base, WITHOUT successes.
Smashing blow takes that to 34P without adding successes against any barrier. Assuming 3 successes, that's 40P regularly against a wall, door... basically anything that gets in the dwarf's way.
So far, it seems that nothing short of Reinforced concrete (16 armor, thus 32 dice of soak) will stand even a chance of resisting the damage done by this character.
Did I go wrong somewhere?
Full Version: Wrecking ball adept?
How is elemental strike giving you +5 damage?
| QUOTE (SM pg. 176) |
| Elemental Strike Cost: .5 This power can only be developed by characters who already possess the Killing Hands power (p. 188, SR4). Elemental Strike enhances the effects of Killing Hands with an elemental effect (see pp. 164–165 of this book and pp. 154– 155, SR4). The specific elemental effect must be chosen at the time the power is bought, though an adept may take this power more than once to achieve different elemental effects (only one elemental effect may be applied per strike). While active, the power wreathes the adept’s hands with a visible effect appropriate to the chosen element. Activating Elemental Strike is a Simple Action, after which the effect lasts for (Magic attribute) Combat Turns. Given the focus it demands, Elemental Strike may not be combined with Distance Strike. |
Elemental Effect Blast gives the following benefits:
| QUOTE ("Street Magic @ pg 164") |
| The blast elemental effect is like a hurricane wind or the shockwave of an explosion. Blast damage is treated as Physical damage and is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). Characters struck with a Blast damage attack are more likely to be knocked down—add the Force to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender’s Body (see Knockdown, p.151, SR4). Blast damage can also break glass and knock over trees and other objects. At the gamemaster’s discretion, objects with a Structure rating less than the Force may be knocked over, shattered, shredded, or otherwise swept away. |
Because it's not a spell, but an effect enhancing things, we were unsure how to handle the damage portion of the blast effect, and the group set it at the Adept's magic rating.
Edit: Assuming we interpreted it wrong, and there is no added damage, that still makes the character hit at 12P base, and 24P base against barriers, averaging 30P in damage. It still seems too high.
What rule are you using in order to Geas that Magic loss due to implants?
It sounds like it's perfectly legal, in a game where the magic loss/geas rules are being misread, and you've house ruled a .5 cost adept power to add 5 damage to unarmed attacks.
First, thank you for all the critique here. I'm really glad to see we may have overlooked/misunderstood/misread some stuff. This is greatly appreciated. Now on to the answers:
We house ruled because there were no clear indications on precisely how elemental damage "enhanced" killing hands. Does it convert all your damage to the appropriate type? If so, how do you handle the knockdown bonuses of Blast? Does it add damage? Does it take away? How is it handled. Using [Magic Rating] as the force for determining damage seemed logical enough. We're perfectly open to alternatives though.
And it looks like the Gaes rules were being misred by the lot of us. I'm guessing we dragged in the old SR3 way of doing Gaes where you could take one to prevent magic loss.
So let's mod this slightly. Drop the magic to 4, lose the gaes, and pull Inertia and Penetrating strikes. Assuming [Magic Rating = Force] for purpose of elemental damage (until we sort that out) that drops damage a little.
New Damage code: (Str/2+11)P or 16P Base, 32P base against barriers, 38P with average number of successes. I mentioned damage codes after pulling elemental damage entirely in my last post, and it's still way up there.
We house ruled because there were no clear indications on precisely how elemental damage "enhanced" killing hands. Does it convert all your damage to the appropriate type? If so, how do you handle the knockdown bonuses of Blast? Does it add damage? Does it take away? How is it handled. Using [Magic Rating] as the force for determining damage seemed logical enough. We're perfectly open to alternatives though.
And it looks like the Gaes rules were being misred by the lot of us. I'm guessing we dragged in the old SR3 way of doing Gaes where you could take one to prevent magic loss.
So let's mod this slightly. Drop the magic to 4, lose the gaes, and pull Inertia and Penetrating strikes. Assuming [Magic Rating = Force] for purpose of elemental damage (until we sort that out) that drops damage a little.
New Damage code: (Str/2+11)P or 16P Base, 32P base against barriers, 38P with average number of successes. I mentioned damage codes after pulling elemental damage entirely in my last post, and it's still way up there.
You interpreted it incorrectly, because elemental strike only gives you the secondary elemental effect.
Also, even assuming your Strength is boosted by 4 (requiring 4 successes), you will still only have a modified Strength of 10, divided by 2 to get 5, +1 for the bone density, +4 for the critical strike, for 10 base damage, 20 against physical barriers.
So you can punch through walls really well, like Tarantula's number-crunching exercise could climb very well. Is that so unbalancing? He's certainly far from optimal purely in melee, compared to builds with more combat dice and initiative passes.
Also, even assuming your Strength is boosted by 4 (requiring 4 successes), you will still only have a modified Strength of 10, divided by 2 to get 5, +1 for the bone density, +4 for the critical strike, for 10 base damage, 20 against physical barriers.
So you can punch through walls really well, like Tarantula's number-crunching exercise could climb very well. Is that so unbalancing? He's certainly far from optimal purely in melee, compared to builds with more combat dice and initiative passes.
| QUOTE |
| You interpreted it incorrectly, because elemental strike only gives you the secondary elemental effect. |
But Elemental Strike doesn't say that anywhere in the description. It states it grants your attacks the elemental effect of your choosing. Because it never states what does and doesn't apply, that's where we hit the snag.
Going with your interpretation, I'm assuming for blast it'd be the actual blastwave effect, knocking stuff away/over/etc. If that's the case, we're still in the same problem that the effect adds the Force of the effect to the damage for purpose of knocking someone down, which an Adept doesn't have, which renders that specific elemental effect completely useless, or leaves us having to make other assumptions such as Magic=Force as we did.
| QUOTE |
| Also, even assuming your Strength is boosted by 4 (requiring 4 successes), you will still only have a modified Strength of 10, divided by 2 to get 5, +1 for the bone density, +4 for the critical strike, for 10 base damage, 20 against physical barriers. |
Crud! You're right. I added all 4 points of strength instead of just the 2 it'd be giving me. Math > Me apparently. So yeah, 10 base, 20 vs barriers, 26 with successes. Original damage would have been 15/30/36 instead. Thanks for catching that!
| QUOTE |
| So you can punch through walls really well, like Tarantula's number-crunching exercise could climb very well. Is that so unbalancing? He's certainly far from optimal purely in melee, compared to builds with more combat dice and initiative passes. |
I noticed that as well, which is what I think would end up being the balancing factor.
EDIT: Relating to that, I intentionally avoided maxing the appropriate stats/skills, and intentionally stayed away from any reaction/IP enhancing effects. I wanted to keep it a reasonable character, and once you start getting into extra IP's, things get exponentially more powerful in my experience.
Just a few thoughts on this.
I'm of the opinion as well that you get the full elemental effect, and not just any secondary it might have.
So an ES (Blast) attack would be a physical attack (regardless of Killing Hands) and treat Impact Armour as 1/2 (Which makes Penetrating Strke the poor cousin).
On top of this, you get an increase to knocking people down. I would also sub the Adepts Magic stat for the 'Force' of the ES Blast, but this only applies for the Knockdown test, not an addition to Damage (or Breaking Barriers).
The GM might give the ES Blast Strike a little AoE, and simulate the breaking of glass/knocking over small objects with each punch, but ES doesn't convey any AoE to the Unarmed Attack.
I'm of the opinion as well that you get the full elemental effect, and not just any secondary it might have.
So an ES (Blast) attack would be a physical attack (regardless of Killing Hands) and treat Impact Armour as 1/2 (Which makes Penetrating Strke the poor cousin).
On top of this, you get an increase to knocking people down. I would also sub the Adepts Magic stat for the 'Force' of the ES Blast, but this only applies for the Knockdown test, not an addition to Damage (or Breaking Barriers).
The GM might give the ES Blast Strike a little AoE, and simulate the breaking of glass/knocking over small objects with each punch, but ES doesn't convey any AoE to the Unarmed Attack.
Part of your problem is the elemental strike, it doesn't add any damage whatsoever. Read carefully
| QUOTE |
| Characters struck with a Blast damage attack are more likely to be knocked down—add the Force to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender’s Body (see Knockdown, p.151, SR4). |
Add the force to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender's body -for purposes of knockdown- not damage done always, this bonus of damage is applied -only- to see if the person is knocked down or not, not to actually injure them in any way.
*Edit*
Another problem is that you won't always get a 4 str boost from your. You get 4 dice for your ability boost ability and 4 dice from your magic, which gives you eight dice. You'll average about 3 bonus points of str.
So taking this all into account you have on initave pass, and your total damage is (str/2+1) which will generally be about 9/2+1=5.5 Then you get to add 4 points for killing hands. So your damage is 9.5P vs 1/2 their impact armor. Not too bad, but then again you can only do this once per combat turn, while most sammies will be able to do similar amounts -and- have 3 ini passes -and- be able to do it from a range. So overall I'd say your build isn't that overpowered at all.
*Edit.. again*
If you'd like I could post my mystic adept and show you how you can really rack up some close combat powers.
| QUOTE |
| Add the force to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender's body -for purposes of knockdown- not damage done always, this bonus of damage is applied -only- to see if the person is knocked down or not, not to actually injure them in any way. |
Fair enough. But what do we use for Force?
And yes, I obviously misread the Blast effect info. Thank you for correcting me on that.
This is starting to seem a little more reasonable.| QUOTE |
| If you'd like I could post my mystic adept and show you how you can really rack up some close combat powers. |
Nah. If I need to make a twink close combat super-adept, I'm all good on that front.
Luckily I try to avoid going overboard with most characters. Wrecking ball here initially just seemed overpowered, and I wanted to make sure I hadn't miscalculated.I'm actually very glad to see that I did, and that things are getting much less ridiculous.
| QUOTE (Jhaiisiin) |
| But what do we use for Force? |
I'd probably use the Adept's Magic.
Eh, ok, I was bored. Here is a mystic adept I was working on...
So lets see what I get..
Base damage is str/2P, which goes to 5.5P Then I get an extra 1 for critical strike, so 6.5P
Maybe not as impressive as your character's damage, but you have to take into account that I get 18 dice to attack with, whereas you get 8. I also manage to attack three times as often as you, not to mention being able to close the distance to my target quicker. May not be able to beat on walls like you can, but your ability to do that is quickly going down.
*edit* heh, wasn't expecting you to be awake to respond, oh well, suppose it is a good comparison at the least.
Oh, and I'd agree, use the Adept's magic as the force, nothing else really makes sense.
[ Spoiler ]
So lets see what I get..
Base damage is str/2P, which goes to 5.5P Then I get an extra 1 for critical strike, so 6.5P
Maybe not as impressive as your character's damage, but you have to take into account that I get 18 dice to attack with, whereas you get 8. I also manage to attack three times as often as you, not to mention being able to close the distance to my target quicker. May not be able to beat on walls like you can, but your ability to do that is quickly going down.
*edit* heh, wasn't expecting you to be awake to respond, oh well, suppose it is a good comparison at the least.
Oh, and I'd agree, use the Adept's magic as the force, nothing else really makes sense.
So what is the correct and SR4 way Geas are handled? No more voluntary geas to offset essence loss?
| QUOTE (Magus) |
| No more voluntary geas to offset essence loss? |
Not from implants.
Well that ties off that munchkin game. What about voluntary geas to get cheaper PP costs? Does this cost BP at chargen?
The rules for Geasa are covered in Street Magic, and can explain it as well (or better) than any of us.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| The rules for Geasa are covered in Street Magic, and can explain it as well (or better) than any of us. |
Party Pooper
I just about always come away pretty unimpressed with strength based melee adept builds these days. I've really come to the conclusion that melee is best left to stun weapons and monowhips or cybered dwarf, ork and troll wrestlers who can still have the points for other tricks. Especially since cyberlimbs are capable of pretty beastly stats now and they can add to the armor and condition monitor as well as the Ultimate Champion optimization which grants +2 to unarmed tests per cyberarm. Of course, it's also perfectly possible to create an adept with optimized limbs that are pretty mean, but then you just start investing too heavily into what really amounts to a secondary skill at best in shadowrun.
even if you could take a voluntary geas to offset magic loss from impants, you wouldn't be able to geas just one power and make it work. you'd have to run two meters before using any of your powers.
My take, is now that you've gotten how your abilities and such hashed out, he really is a weak character. He's a mediocre damage soak, and no extra ips means not much damage output. Not to mention being absolutely not stealthy in the least. And he isn't even that great at punching through things. (Attribute boost is pretty pathetic)
How about (Don't have augmentation yet, so this is just very rough...) a Mystic Adept (with only one point in Sorcery, for spells sustained thorugh foci), with a tricked out cyberarm (Max Str) and PP spent in Killing Hands, Max Critical Strike and Elemental Strike (Sound).
Buy only Killing Hands and Ele Strike, with the remaining points spent in Critical Strike, up to Max. If you can fit in the essence loss alongside a Cyberarm, get some Bioware (thinking of Bone Density to get the plus to Unarmed Damage).
As high an Unarmed SKill as you can afford (With obvious specialisations), and get your cyberarm as a Weapon Focus (If possible?).
With Sound strikes, you ignore your targets armour (laugh at Penetrating Strike!) and if you do more Damage than your targets Willpower, you not only take them out of comabt for three rounds, but you also double thier wound penalties if you don't! (Laught at Lightnings -2 Dice and resistance roll!).
Not very sublte, and don't try it versus Mages who like to cast Silence.
I wonder how much you could trick that sort of Unarmed Damage up for.
1 Essences worth of Adept powers can net you +4 Damage from Critical Strike, so any Cyberware needs to give +4 Damage or +8 Str to be worth the trade off...
The Mystic Adept point of Sorcery is just there for things like increase reflexes, attribute, deflection, armour. All the potentially nice sustainables.
Plus counterspelling.
Buy only Killing Hands and Ele Strike, with the remaining points spent in Critical Strike, up to Max. If you can fit in the essence loss alongside a Cyberarm, get some Bioware (thinking of Bone Density to get the plus to Unarmed Damage).
As high an Unarmed SKill as you can afford (With obvious specialisations), and get your cyberarm as a Weapon Focus (If possible?).
With Sound strikes, you ignore your targets armour (laugh at Penetrating Strike!) and if you do more Damage than your targets Willpower, you not only take them out of comabt for three rounds, but you also double thier wound penalties if you don't! (Laught at Lightnings -2 Dice and resistance roll!).
Not very sublte, and don't try it versus Mages who like to cast Silence.
I wonder how much you could trick that sort of Unarmed Damage up for.
1 Essences worth of Adept powers can net you +4 Damage from Critical Strike, so any Cyberware needs to give +4 Damage or +8 Str to be worth the trade off...
The Mystic Adept point of Sorcery is just there for things like increase reflexes, attribute, deflection, armour. All the potentially nice sustainables.
Plus counterspelling.
Mystic adepts are absolute crap if all you intend to do is mix in a tiny bit of sorcery. It's simply too expensive and inconvenient to be practical for a lot of reasons. For example, you can only start out with 2 spells per point of Spellcasting, you won't have the dicepool to consistently meet thresholds. This isn't even going into all the foci you'd need and the issues you'd run into when facing wards. You're really a lot better off sticking to minor conjuring and taking a decent counterspell pool as a mystic adept. That said, taking a point or two of sorcery, learning a spell and just having a force 3 or 4 Spirit of Man cast it for you can be pretty useful, but that's really best done with great utility spells like Heal that don't need to be sustained rather than self buffs.,
now that there are actually written words for this you can switch off feeling in your power-arm and just hammer away for some time . . if you hack at something long enough it WILL give . . ok, you have to meet a certain minimum damage . .
but a troll with STR15 redlined to 30 with pain editor and things that let him deal with stun damage better . . or something that further strengthens his arm will do tremendous damage over time ^^
but a troll with STR15 redlined to 30 with pain editor and things that let him deal with stun damage better . . or something that further strengthens his arm will do tremendous damage over time ^^
Whip, rather than spend an expensive 2 PP on increased Reflexes, a Mystic adept could with a magic of 1 over case at force 2, and with a good enough sorcery skill easily get +1 I & IP. Bind that to a Foci and suffer a physical drain of 3.
If you can squeze out Magic 2, you can overcast for the max +3IP. in exchange for 5 Magic worth of PP.
Any extra armour/deflection would just be gravy. As long as you could afford the foci!
If you can squeze out Magic 2, you can overcast for the max +3IP. in exchange for 5 Magic worth of PP.
Any extra armour/deflection would just be gravy. As long as you could afford the foci!
| QUOTE |
| even if you could take a voluntary geas to offset magic loss from impants, you wouldn't be able to geas just one power and make it work. you'd have to run two meters before using any of your powers. |
IF this worked like SR3 (which I was corrected on and understand that it doesn't), then I *could* have taken the gaes for just the powers that were affected by the magic loss. However, realizing I was in error, it's a moot point at this juncture.
| QUOTE |
| My take, is now that you've gotten how your abilities and such hashed out, he really is a weak character. He's a mediocre damage soak, and no extra ips means not much damage output. Not to mention being absolutely not stealthy in the least. And he isn't even that great at punching through things. (Attribute boost is pretty pathetic) |
Yeah, so this is exactly what I wasn't trying to find out.
So here's the thing. This character was intentionally designed without maxing out appropriate stats, going for extra IP's or such. If I wanted, I could EASILY create a hyperfast walking damage machine that just levels anything in his way. In the SR games my group plays, we don't do that though. Due to the rapid escalation problems, we avoid Reaction/Initiative/IP enhancing items for quite some time when starting new characters to keep the game low-powered and slowly build up from there.
Second, the character concept and background don't require or even support stealth. So that's why you see no stealth skills. His job was a point man who helps breach locations without having to carry explosives.
Oh, and for someone who "isn't really great at punching through things", nothing short of a military blast bunker wall will stop him. I'm not sure how that's considered "not really great."
What I don't get about melee characters is the bizarre fascination people have with overkill for them. Honestly now, a troll with high strength and a decent pool will be able to subdue anyone short of other melee trolls on a pretty consistent basis, and at at that point the opponent cannot even fight back at all and you get to deal strength in S vs. the opponents Body+Armor until they break free. All you need for this li'l trick is an unarmed combat, decent attributes and some muscle bioware. I'd much rather try for that than take a swing at a guy, have them soak the 8 damage and then answer back with a full burst. I can say with all honesty, with a completely straight face, that so far the most complete and useful melee artist I have personally had in a shadowrunning team was an ork luchador who dabbled in archery but made sure to have other talents as well.
Elemental Strike Blast doesn't really help you though. It adds nothing to breaking barriers.
I don't think the 1/2 Impact armour has any effect on Barrier, maybe Elemental Strike Metal, for the +2 Damage (again, I don't think the +2 AP Penalty would effect the Barrier) would help more?
I don't think the 1/2 Impact armour has any effect on Barrier, maybe Elemental Strike Metal, for the +2 Damage (again, I don't think the +2 AP Penalty would effect the Barrier) would help more?
| QUOTE |
| Mystic adepts are absolute crap if all you intend to do is mix in a tiny bit of sorcery. |
I've generally seen them played as an adept with Counterspelling. That often seems to be worth the 5 extra BP, the effective -1 to Magic, and whatever BPs are spent on the Counterspelling skill since Magic rating really doens't mater for spell defense.
Plus if you are a mystic adept you can eventually learn the filter metamagic. Which makes you able to function in domains, which depending on game style can really help.
| QUOTE (Whipstitch) |
| What I don't get about melee characters is the bizarre fascination people have with overkill for them. Honestly now, a troll with 11 strength and a decent pool will be able to subdue anyone short of other melee trolls on a pretty consistent basis, and at at that point the opponent cannot even fight back at all and you get to deal 11S vs. the opponents Body+Armor until they break free. All you need for this li'l trick is an unarmed combat, decent attributes and some muscle bioware. I'd much rather try for that than take a swing at a guy, have them soak the 8 damage and then answer back with a full burst. I can say with all honesty, with a completely straight face, that so far the most complete and useful melee artist I have personally had in a shadowrunning team was an ork luchador who dabbled in archery but made sure to have other talents as well. |
...an Ork Luchador? Sweeeeet...
I cannot remember the last time I saw someone actually use grapple against an opponent in games I've been in. Can't remember if there is an adept power that augments this (other than the Improved/Boosted Attribute powers).
| QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Dec 6 2007, 02:19 PM) | ||
I've generally seen them played as an adept with Counterspelling. That often seems to be worth the 5 extra BP, the effective -1 to Magic, and whatever BPs are spent on the Counterspelling skill since Magic rating really doens't mater for spell defense. |
Yeah, I actually meant just Spellcasting/Ritual magic. My bad.
And yeah KK, I really don't see why it doesn't come up more often. It's an incredible way for GMs to ruin the day of Mr. Min-Maxed 1-2 strength and a monowhip type runners. Getting jumped in close quarters by a bunch of gutterpunk trolls amped up on Nitro can actually become scary. I really miss the Luchadores; the previous title to most awesome melee runner I'd seen had been held by a troll luchador who died in an earlier run (the ork was his old tag team partner who joined up to avenge him; not as good of a wrestler but a better runner).
| QUOTE ("") |
| Elemental Strike Blast doesn't really help you though. It adds nothing to breaking barriers. I don't think the 1/2 Impact armour has any effect on Barrier, maybe Elemental Strike Metal, for the +2 Damage (again, I don't think the +2 AP Penalty would effect the Barrier) would help more? |
After the discussions here and the insights leading to me correcting what I thought I knew about the setup, you're right. Now it's serving as fluff to turn the wall-bits into frivolous shrapnel when I blow through it.
Fluff is good!
My thoughts exactly. Plus, if your GM likes you, you can blow through a wall at full force and hurt/injure/kill the fragger on the other side of it.
Hey, even without maxing out "weaknesses" I really liked the idea of the character. Sounds like fun. Plus, I loved him to be a dwarf. I have a soft spot for dwarf shadowrunners...
Cheers,
Max
Cheers,
Max
For some reason, it struck me as amusing to have a 4 foot nothin' wrecking ball blowing 3 meter holes in walls. *shrug* Hooray for concept characters.
| QUOTE (Jhaiisiin) |
| Second, the character concept and background don't require or even support stealth. So that's why you see no stealth skills. His job was a point man who helps breach locations without having to carry explosives. Oh, and for someone who "isn't really great at punching through things", nothing short of a military blast bunker wall will stop him. I'm not sure how that's considered "not really great." |
Well, lets see his punching through things... Strength 6, + average 3 boosted strength = 9 total. /2 round up gives you 5. +4 for critical strike is 9. Average of 2 hits on the attack test, bringing it up to 11. I wouldd give you the half armor on the barrier, but barriers ignore AP which is what that is. Assuming you're punching a concrete wall (Armor 16 structure 13), you now double your 11 to a 22. It gets 2x armor (32), averaging 10 hits, dropping you down to 12 damage. Thats less than the structure rating, so you do nothing.
Now, your average drywall wall, or a wood door someone shuts in your face, sure, you your average melee troll can blow through those too without even needing smashing blow.
Just for kicks though, if you punched a door someone slammed in your face (armor: 2 structure: 3) you'd average your 22 damage. It soaks 1 dropping it to 21. 21/3 = 7 meters of the door destroyed.
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