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nezumi
I was reading through the critters book and was absolutely floored by the strength of some of the powers. Take for instance the Barghest's paralyzing howl.

The barghest howls. Everyone who can hear it (presumably dampening decreases the potency, but the rules don't explicitly say so) has to make an opposed willpower vs. essence test. The barghest's essence is 6, so it's almost guaranteed anyone with a willpower of less than 6 will be affected and anyone with a willpower of precisely 6 has maybe 50-50 odds.

If the power takes effect, the target's quickness is reduced by the creature's essence. The number of successes determines how many MINUTES it lasts.

In other words, if you have a character, it needs either a quickness of 7 or a willpower of 7 (both superhuman) to reasonably survive ONE attack from a barghest.

Check out some of the other creatures which use paralyzing touch. Some have a minimum essence of 7, a maximum of 24!! Imagine that, roll a willpower test with a TN of 24, beat the creature's successes, or you get 24 points of quickness loss!!!

I checked errata and there's nothing in there. Anyone alter these crazy rules to allow a party to survive a single barghest?
Kagetenshi
No. "All your weapons and cyberjunk don't mean drek when you hear the Barghest HOWL!!!!"

~J
pbangarth
Creatures are way tougher than humans are, anyway. Add magic into the mix, and they are really tough!

I remember a Virtual Seattle scenario, "Culture Shock" I think it was called, in which the party meets a piasma (?) bear early on. When I ran the scenario, I had it flip their vehicle and open it through the "soft underbelly". The looks on the players' faces was priceless.

Some very powerful teams who were full of themselves and their invincibility lived the title.
Stahlseele
if it's really dependent on hearing . . switch off your cyber-ears or install sound filter and filter the sound out . .
Kyoto Kid
...yeah, dealt with barghests before. Definitely not high on my list of favorued activities for the weekend.

Then there's those lovely hellhounds. No paralysing howl but man I'd rather deal with a well armed sec guard or two any day.

...and don't even get me on critters from the ocean's depths. The PCs are usually the sashimi.

Critters are way nasty, at least in the pre 4th ed days.
ShadowDragon8685
Barghest Howls, Steel Lynx Howls Back (With a machine gun).

Guess who wins? I'm betting on the Drone. smile.gif


Drone > Critter. And even if Drone !> Critter, Critter does not kill operator.
Stahlseele
as long as there is no regeneration or immunity to that nice 10D Stun Poison i am set against them with a pair of switchoffable ears ^^
Pendaric
I like bargests. They scare player characters mundane and awakened. Down side is that they have no armour and one wired street sam can make them eat lead, very effectively. Critters are plain cool. Especially chuck monkeys.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Pendaric)
I like bargests. They scare player characters mundane and awakened. Down side is that they have no armour and one wired street sam can make them eat lead, very effectively. Critters are plain cool. Especially chuck monkeys.

So one rigged Steel Lynx can feed them a very high dosage of lead very easily? smile.gif
Pendaric
Yes. But you can not play chuck monkeys with a steel lynx.
Wounded Ronin
Critter powers are indeed very powerful. Which is a good thing, because if they were just like grizzly bears or wild boars in real life a team of 6 dudes with SMGs would just waste them without much of a problem.
Whipstitch
Yeah, the lack of armor is a real weakness.
ElFenrir
QUOTE
Creatures are way tougher than humans are, anyway. Add magic into the mix, and they are really tough!

I remember a Virtual Seattle scenario, "Culture Shock" I think it was called, in which the party meets a piasma (?) bear early on. When I ran the scenario, I had it flip their vehicle and open it through the "soft underbelly". The looks on the players' faces was priceless.

Some very powerful teams who were full of themselves and their invincibility lived the title.



Ahh, the Piasma. I usually don't tell war stories...but i had a troll(giant subtype)ganger...alone...ice one of these things. Now, before you scream ''Munchkin'', he was made from the book, with no edges or flaws and very little cyberware, with a handful of weapons, mostly a pipe, chain, knife, and a shotgun...the one of which saved him was his shotgun.

It was more two LUCKY ass rolls than anything. Basically, he ended up getting involved on a big game hunt with a more refined elven fellow who was trying to get him into the higher life. Piasma jumps out. Troll on pure street instinct sticks shotgun at piasma(while friend is doing amusing roaring sounds holding the picture of said terrifying thing up to me, i thought i was doomed), and pulls trigger, twice, of the gun loaded with either EX-EX or APDS(he had recieved some better rounds at the place where he was going on the hunt). He had a decent(4/6)shotgun skill and a few combat pool, with a smartlink.

Well, Bear, despite it's good body, fails miserably at the damage soak rolls(i had won the initative), and i rolled REALLY well on both hits. Needless to say it was described as Piasma jumping out, Ganger shoving shotgun in mouth Aliens style and pulling the trigger, Piasma on the ground with four legs in the air. I howver, counted myself VERY lucky that the rolls went for me and against the bear, because my puny armored jacked wasn't doing much against the 10D hits with +2 reach. nyahnyah.gif

I think, though, it's an instance of powers. Its only powers were offense enhanceing stuff, which isn't nearly as good as, say, the Barghest's powers or some of the others. Some of the smaller critters with Fear, Mind-Controlling stuff are more terrifying. Hell, i recall having more trouble with one of those Astral Mind Controlling Blob things who don't even hurt you than the Piasma.

But as a rule of thumb, be careful around critters, yes. grinbig.gif Like Juggernauts and Krakens. Those are two big critters i wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley.
Kagetenshi
I'd rather meet a Juggernaut in an alley than anywhere else. At least there, I'd know it wouldn't be able to move.

~J
Fuchs
My first shadowrun character had some traumatic experience in the wilderness in his background, and tended to shoot at everything that looked like it was an animal, or might be thinking of evolving into one in the future when away from a sprawl. He wasn't alone in that though - from that campaign comes this dialogue (while travelling through the sewers or a forest, I believe):

GM: "You see a..."
Player: "I shoot it!"
GM: "I did not tell you yet what you see!"
Player: "I don't care, I shoot it."
Stahlseele
heh . . one of my GM's once asked:"do you have any character with heavy artillery?"
when i answered an honest to god:"no" he was dumb enough to tell me:"make it so" . .
end of story:Troll Heavy Weapons-Specialist with enough built in Recoil Compensation to fire Full-Auto from LMG without penalty and one Ares Great Dragon ATGM. . and Strength 15 with 2 Dikoted retractable spurs *g*
Long Story short, when a Piasma approached my Troll and growled, i growled back at it . . when it roared, i roared back at it . . when it attacked, i threw away my LMG and began skinning it alive . . suffice to say my GM was not happy about this happening and shortly thereafter threw a small feathered serpent on the head of said character, which broke off both of the spurs . . i got to fight back in unarmed combat for 3 rounds, before i went into overflow and dropped with my last strength below a truck and another character shot the snake with ma ATGM . . and singed off all of my characters hair and splattered me in lizard-bits <.<
nezumi
Compulsion power would have turned that around mighty quick.
Stahlseele
yep. should have seen the face of the piasma(read:the GM) when i told him about that . . he'd only wanted to set me Bear-Like Troll up against a bigger bear *g*
Mercer
As the GM who invested in the various Paranormal Animal Guides (North America, Europe), and as the GM who likes to get the game out into the wilderness (Africa, South America), I've run most of the crittery games. A few years ago I snagged a wild animal behavior guide from some safari company's site; I've found it to be an invaluable resource in running animals in games. But its kind of long, so:
[ Spoiler ]

If anything, I think Critter Powers tend to be a little overpowered (anything that last minutes in SR combat might as well last years, and the powers that tend to use the creature's Stat + Magic or Ess vs the target's Stat), and their physical stats seem to be a little underpowered. I'm pretty sure I could make an unaugmented human who stood a good chance in a bare knuckle fistfight with a lion, which seems a little odd. (If it we were going to lock Mike Tyson in a cage with a lion, I'd probably bet the lion pretty heavy.) Wolves seem kind of anemic as well. (BOD 2? I'd be inclined to give them a 4. I think that most things that survive in the wild are probably more hardy than a pedestrian.) I guess if you consider the critter in the book the "pedestrian" critter, its not that bad-- certainly not as bad as some other systems I can name. You figure your average street sam is going to be as deadly as great cat, faster and about as tough and with hand razors of his own. (The B-List sam I'm currently playing has almost exactly the same stats as a great cat, with a 4P physical attack to the lion's 5P, everything else almost identical.)
wind_in_the_stones
Critters seem to have a powerful offense, but go down easily once you get a shot at them. No armor (except for the biggest ones), and low Willpowers.
hyzmarca
1) Unless you're a satyr-legged Night-One Ghoul Horse Shaman, don't run from hungry predators. They're faster than you and running is what food does.

2) If you expect to encounter elephants, then bring mice with you. Elephants are wary of mice and tend to give them a wide berth. That is a fact.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
2) If you expect to encounter elephants, then bring mice with you. Elephants are wary of mice and tend to give them a wide berth. That is a fact.

As seen on Mythbusters, eh? biggrin.gif
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 12 2007, 01:28 AM)
2) If you expect to encounter elephants, then bring mice with you. Elephants are wary of mice and tend to give them a wide berth. That is a fact.

As seen on Mythbusters, eh? biggrin.gif

I was amazed. I have to admit I did not see that coming.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT @ Dec 13 2007, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 12 2007, 01:28 AM)
2) If you expect to encounter elephants, then bring mice with you. Elephants are wary of mice and tend to give them a wide berth. That is a fact.

As seen on Mythbusters, eh? biggrin.gif

I was amazed. I have to admit I did not see that coming.

Probably a lot of people didn't see that coming, I sure didn't and neither did my roommate. It was good that they did the other various scenarios to make sure it was just the mouse and at that point I went 'whoa'.
Platinum
It's not much different from people not liking spiders. I also wonder if it has to do with the size of the creature. Would they act the same with a toad or a non-venomous snake.
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