Full Version: Modern Day Dollar to Nuyen Conversion
I'm wondering if anyone knows how much a modern day dollar would equal in nuyen. I'm doing some research for my first game session and this information would help me. Thanks for any information you can give me.
For an almost entirely unresearched, unsupported quick answer, the Nuyen is worth about 3 UCAS dollars, and when you adjust for inflation (assuming a slightly low rate of inflation), that actually works out to one nuyen to the 2007 dollar. That should make calculations easy. Happy birthday.
The short answer, and the bad news, is that there's no good conversion. Some things (most ammunition, for example) are fantastically expensive if seen as a 1:1 ¥:$US conversion, while others (the diving fins, say, or the binoculars) are an absolute steal at the same ratio.
~J
~J
I think you've misunderstood the question.
That, or I deliberately misunderstand the inquiry in order to deliver the following lines of text.
He asked how much a modern day dollar would be worth in Nuyen. The simple answer is "a lot, or nothing at all, depending on who you're trying to sell it to, and what it's condition is."
Paper money is fragile, and it's been what, half a century or better since the fall of the United States of America? In the going from USA to UCAS, the remnants of the Federal Government probably changed all the money - the CAS probably refused to honor greenbacks except in a narrow exchange time frame, and in the rest of the country, they were simply so much paper.
So, if you can find some really rich old geezer who fondly reminisces about the United States of America, or a collector of money, you could probably sell him a dollar or any number of dollars for a lot of
, provided they were in good condition. Mint-condition dollars would be worth the most, half a dollar with the edges singed, not so much.
That, or I deliberately misunderstand the inquiry in order to deliver the following lines of text.
He asked how much a modern day dollar would be worth in Nuyen. The simple answer is "a lot, or nothing at all, depending on who you're trying to sell it to, and what it's condition is."
Paper money is fragile, and it's been what, half a century or better since the fall of the United States of America? In the going from USA to UCAS, the remnants of the Federal Government probably changed all the money - the CAS probably refused to honor greenbacks except in a narrow exchange time frame, and in the rest of the country, they were simply so much paper.
So, if you can find some really rich old geezer who fondly reminisces about the United States of America, or a collector of money, you could probably sell him a dollar or any number of dollars for a lot of
, provided they were in good condition. Mint-condition dollars would be worth the most, half a dollar with the edges singed, not so much.
Confederate money would probably be a good comparison, although I too think the OP was asking about conversion rates. (We won't know for certain until the OP shows back up and tells us.)
Ammo is highly priced in SR. That's always been the joke in SR, its two nuyen to shoot somebody these days. It makes me think of Chris Rock's old bit about we don't need Gun Control, we need Bullet Control-- if a bullet cost 5000 bucks, there'd be no innocent bystanders. It would almost seem like a game balance concern, except the price isn't really high enough to matter. It was SR3 before I saw anybody every have to change a magazine. Most runners, even merc gun bunnies, aren't firing the thousands of rounds of ammo necessary to make price and issue.
It did sort of matter when it came to special ammo. APDS was 28 a round back in the day, factoring in Street Index. 280 bucks for a 10 round burst was pretty steep, but if you think of the things that required long bursts of APDS to deal with, it was steal.
You could argue that mass production and cheaper synthetic materials make some items-- like diving fins and binoculars-- cheaper than today's counterparts, while the dystopian desire of the powers that be to keep ammunition out of the hands of the general populace makes the cost of bullets higher. But then, grenades still cost about as much as shuriken, so that seems a little odd. (Although I explain that by saying shuriken aren't the chrome danglies they sell next to the skull lighters at the local Gas-n-Go, but rather properly balanced weapons made of high grade materials that actually hurt people. Still, it seems like grenades wouldn't be comparatively priced. Unless you figure the people throwing the shuriken are the phys ads who do more damage than grenades, but I don't think a company is going to make a lot of money thinking that way.)
Or, you could say Wal*Mart 2070 still sells ammo for 10 cents a round, but all ammo is tracked by batch number and all purchases recorded, so every time a runner bought and used that ammo it would burn a fake (or real) SIN. If rounds you purchased show up in Billy Bob the sec guard, someone'll come a-knockin'. The 2 a cartridge regular ammo in the books comes laundered through street dealers, so its untraceable but has an appropriate mark up. (Even though that still makes grenades pretty cheap. Grenades, no problem. Bullets, now that might take some finesse.)
Or you could say they didn't put much thought into back in '88, and no one has bothered to update the ammo prices since then. I'm down with whatever.
Ammo is highly priced in SR. That's always been the joke in SR, its two nuyen to shoot somebody these days. It makes me think of Chris Rock's old bit about we don't need Gun Control, we need Bullet Control-- if a bullet cost 5000 bucks, there'd be no innocent bystanders. It would almost seem like a game balance concern, except the price isn't really high enough to matter. It was SR3 before I saw anybody every have to change a magazine. Most runners, even merc gun bunnies, aren't firing the thousands of rounds of ammo necessary to make price and issue.
It did sort of matter when it came to special ammo. APDS was 28
a round back in the day, factoring in Street Index. 280 bucks for a 10 round burst was pretty steep, but if you think of the things that required long bursts of APDS to deal with, it was steal. You could argue that mass production and cheaper synthetic materials make some items-- like diving fins and binoculars-- cheaper than today's counterparts, while the dystopian desire of the powers that be to keep ammunition out of the hands of the general populace makes the cost of bullets higher. But then, grenades still cost about as much as shuriken, so that seems a little odd. (Although I explain that by saying shuriken aren't the chrome danglies they sell next to the skull lighters at the local Gas-n-Go, but rather properly balanced weapons made of high grade materials that actually hurt people. Still, it seems like grenades wouldn't be comparatively priced. Unless you figure the people throwing the shuriken are the phys ads who do more damage than grenades, but I don't think a company is going to make a lot of money thinking that way.)
Or, you could say Wal*Mart 2070 still sells ammo for 10 cents a round, but all ammo is tracked by batch number and all purchases recorded, so every time a runner bought and used that ammo it would burn a fake (or real) SIN. If rounds you purchased show up in Billy Bob the sec guard, someone'll come a-knockin'. The 2
a cartridge regular ammo in the books comes laundered through street dealers, so its untraceable but has an appropriate mark up. (Even though that still makes grenades pretty cheap. Grenades, no problem. Bullets, now that might take some finesse.) Or you could say they didn't put much thought into back in '88, and no one has bothered to update the ammo prices since then. I'm down with whatever.
| QUOTE (Mercer) |
| Or, you could say Wal*Mart 2070 still sells ammo for 10 cents a round, but all ammo is tracked by batch number and all purchases recorded, so every time a runner bought and used that ammo it would burn a fake (or real) SIN. If rounds you purchased show up in Billy Bob the sec guard, someone'll come a-knockin'. The 2 a cartridge regular ammo in the books comes laundered through street dealers, so its untraceable but has an appropriate mark up. (Even though that still makes grenades pretty cheap. Grenades, no problem. Bullets, now that might take some finesse.) |
You can't actually say that, because all prices are explicitly legal, off-the-shelf prices. Street Index exists to cover the things you talk about (among others), and according to it regular ammo is cheaper on the street.
~J
It's totally random.
For example a Javelin AT missile cost $350,000 each, vs 4000
A 40mm programmable grenade cost $211 vs 45
An M-67 frag grenade cost $27.64 vs 45
A M855 rifle round costs about $0.40 vs 2
A luxury limousine costs $130,000 vs 20,000
It tends to make you think that the people writing the rules really don't give a damn about making sense or are totally clueless. Take your pick....
For example a Javelin AT missile cost $350,000 each, vs 4000
A 40mm programmable grenade cost $211 vs 45
An M-67 frag grenade cost $27.64 vs 45
A M855 rifle round costs about $0.40 vs 2
A luxury limousine costs $130,000 vs 20,000
It tends to make you think that the people writing the rules really don't give a damn about making sense or are totally clueless. Take your pick....
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| You can't actually say that, because all prices are explicitly legal, off-the-shelf prices. Street Index exists to cover the things you talk about (among others), and according to it regular ammo is cheaper on the street. ~J |
True. I keep forgetting which forum I'm in. Trying to learn SR4 wrecks my SR3 advice because the systems are similar enough that they start to blur. And as always, what shoddily written rules we are using will determine which totally out of our ass explanation we'll require. Neither of which solves the shuriken/grenade conundrum, which has withstood 4 editions thus far.
Well, the earlier part of the post, mass-production-cheaper-synthetics for cheap diving fins and the Man trying to keep us down by jacking up the price of ammo I stand by. Its cheaper on the street because so much of it filters down to the shadow market. Wal*Mart sells it for 2
a round, but the guy that just stole the truck full of ammo is selling it for a buck-fiddy. Power to the People.(I miss Street Index, to tell you the truth. I enjoyed buying regular ammo and ordinary clothes and real leathers with starting money instead of Tech to save 50 bucks in character creation. But alas.)
If you want a basis to find the right price for some everyday item that's not in the books, 1:nuyen: = 1$ should be ok.
If you want to find a price for some piece of equipment, game balance will come into play so it'd be better to adjust the price by comparing it to other equipments.
If you want to find a price for some piece of equipment, game balance will come into play so it'd be better to adjust the price by comparing it to other equipments.
In Shadowrun, bullets cost an unrealistically large amount. But people also fire an unrealistically low number of them during combat. People have a very low rate of fire and are incredibly accurate with their bullets.
Realistically people would be spending the same money for more bullets and firing more of them. What it comes down to is that characters reload less often than they "should" - meaning that they live in Action Movie worlds where reloading is done only to give the viewer a breather.
-Frank
Realistically people would be spending the same money for more bullets and firing more of them. What it comes down to is that characters reload less often than they "should" - meaning that they live in Action Movie worlds where reloading is done only to give the viewer a breather.
-Frank
Unless they are really spiffy deadly weapons, like anti-vehicle missiles. Which cost peanuts compared to what they really cost.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Realistically people would be spending the same money for more bullets and firing more of them. What it comes down to is that characters reload less often than they "should" - meaning that they live in Action Movie worlds where reloading is done only to give the viewer a breather. |
I see your line of thinking here, but I can't really agree—they reload "when they should", but just don't pull the trigger (or hold it down) as much as they "should".
~J, hairsplitter
In SR people hit at least 10 times more than they really do in actual combat. Plus weapons in SR are overrated as to average effectiveness and speed of effect (and underrated from another POV, but I digress), so you don't have a cop needing to shoot a guy 11 times before he goes down.
There is an argument to be made that Shadowrun Heavy Pistols represent heavier firepower than is commonly used today—an argument partly backed up by the fact that the archetypal Heavy Pistol, the Ares Predator, is IIRC styled after the Desert Eagle and is in any case one hefty piece of hand-cannon.
Not that that destroys your point, it merely lessens the magnitude.
~J
Not that that destroys your point, it merely lessens the magnitude.
~J
I thinkl it's called Smartlinks, Targetting Skillsofts, Improved Combat Technique (Firearms), and/or Spent Edge.
If you say so. That's why grandma with a colt America, no pistol skill and agil 1 can't EVER drop someone with one shot, right? For that mater, she can't do it with a Remington roomsweeper. Because being shot in the head by an old lady with a shotgun does a lot less damage than being shot in the head by a hard core skilled thug, right?
Well, even at its grittiest, a game still has to be somewhat... (I don't want to say playable, since anything is playable in theory, so I'll just say) fun. It's like Vonnegut said about writing. Don't write realistic stories. Real life boring, its anti-climatic. People hate reality. Thats why they turn to fiction.
That said, if we come up with a mechanic that makes an untrained user dangerous with a pistol that doesn't break when the Saint of Killers pulls his six-gun, I'd implement it in a second. Because I'm all about the grit.
That said, if we come up with a mechanic that makes an untrained user dangerous with a pistol that doesn't break when the Saint of Killers pulls his six-gun, I'd implement it in a second. Because I'm all about the grit.
The problem is we don't have any conversion scale. In 1942 it was $0.30 to the Yen. today its about 112 Yen to $1. I thought in Harlequin they said it was about $5 to 1
1
Yes the rate from 2070 dollars to 2070 nuyens is $5 to 1.
But modern-day dollar to 2070 nuyen conversion is closer to 1 to 1.
Actually you can say $1 today is worth $5= 1 in Shadowrun.
1.But modern-day dollar to 2070 nuyen conversion is closer to 1 to 1.
Actually you can say $1 today is worth $5=
1 in Shadowrun.
| QUOTE (kzt @ Dec 28 2007, 01:58 AM) |
| If you say so. That's why grandma with a colt America, no pistol skill and agil 1 can't EVER drop someone with one shot, right? For that mater, she can't do it with a Remington roomsweeper. Because being shot in the head by an old lady with a shotgun does a lot less damage than being shot in the head by a hard core skilled thug, right? |
Unless the guy is prone and immobilized, or she puts it to the thug's head, she only gets to roll one die opposed by the thug's entire relevant dice pool.
Her long life should give her time enough to have built up at least some Edge, so she might want to spend a couple points (once to invoke the Rule of Six, and again to reroll and/or mitigate a Glitch she has too. Don't think she'd want to burn Edge at her age, though). That means a maximum of 2 dice against the thug's (for the sake of arguement) 2 Gymnastics, Tumbling, or Broken Field Running (whichever is the most relevant skill at the moment), 4 Agility, and an Armor Rating of 1. That's Seven Dice. The Thug is 3.5 times more likely not to get hit than Granny has of hitting him. This is by no means impossible, and rolling that many dice, it is always possible for the Thug to Glitch, unless he choses to spend Edge.
Of course, as you can see, a few assumptions have been made. As this is a bad neighborhood, it can be reasonably assumed that any guns Granny might have won't just be wallhangers and display pieces. This means that she'll probably have at least a 1 in Firearms (maybe more), and depending on the layout of her home,she might qualify for the Home Ground edge (Which should add at least a little more to her pool). Then again, the Thug in question is made from a standard Mook Template. Harder core gangers and even Player Runners at Charecter Generation will be made of sterner stuff.
Still, I think my point is made. Vanishingly Unlikeley =|= Impossible.
That's assuming she did in fact obtain Edge. You don't just gain it, like Karma Pool, you have to "consciously" purchase it, and not spend that karma on other attributes or skills. It's not at all unreasonable that Granny might have the same amount of Edge she came out of the womb with, or less if she'd burned some earlier in life.
~J
~J
But my point is that people actually get killed by totally inferior opponents all the time. With SR it's like koblods and 10th level fighters in DnD. "I laugh at your pitiful 12 gauge shotgun pointed at my head." That's the area where SR breaks the other way.
"Bullets work on veteran cops too. They also work on weight lifters, martial arts experts, department marksmen, Narco Investigators, S.W.A.T. jocks, and others who consider themselves immortal."
"Bullets work on veteran cops too. They also work on weight lifters, martial arts experts, department marksmen, Narco Investigators, S.W.A.T. jocks, and others who consider themselves immortal."
Well, if you rolled for everybody in the SR world, you'd probably get enough botches (almost said crit glitches there) to rack up some serious accidental injuries.
Which is not to say that you don't have a valid point, kzt, because you do. Guns aren't that scary in the game without skill backing them up. You have to massage so much of the game to make them barely usuable; a shotgun blast from an unskilled opponent can be serious to most PCs if they're not wearing armor and if you catch them by surprise. (Which is never and never and begs the question of how the incompetent 0 dice shooter managed to get the drop on a shadowrunner.) At a base 10S, most PCs (barring karma, but that's what karma is for) will take wound, although if they're burly is likely to only be a scratch.
But there's a lot of things that will never happen in the game. A character's light wound won't get infected and kill them. People won't develop lymphosarcoma. There's all sorts of situations the mechanics don't support, and not all of them involve vehicles.
Which is not to say that you don't have a valid point, kzt, because you do. Guns aren't that scary in the game without skill backing them up. You have to massage so much of the game to make them barely usuable; a shotgun blast from an unskilled opponent can be serious to most PCs if they're not wearing armor and if you catch them by surprise. (Which is never and never and begs the question of how the incompetent 0 dice shooter managed to get the drop on a shadowrunner.) At a base 10S, most PCs (barring karma, but that's what karma is for) will take wound, although if they're burly is likely to only be a scratch.
But there's a lot of things that will never happen in the game. A character's light wound won't get infected and kill them. People won't develop lymphosarcoma. There's all sorts of situations the mechanics don't support, and not all of them involve vehicles.
Sorry about the long rambling post, I just found myself really intrigued by this problem.
| QUOTE |
| But my point is that people actually get killed by totally inferior opponents all the time. With SR it's like koblods and 10th level fighters in DnD. "I laugh at your pitiful 12 gauge shotgun pointed at my head." That's the area where SR breaks the other way. |
While I agree that this is a problem I don't think it's quite as absurd as all that.
Short range for a heavy pistol goes all the way out to about 16.5 feet. I submit to you that if you were to find an elderly woman in the real world who had roughly 1/3 the coordination of the average human and no experience with firearms and then hand her a handgun chambered in 10mm, 44 magnum, .50 AE, or similar very high powered cartridge, and then take her out to your local gun range, give her a big shot of epinephrine to simulate the adrenaline dump of combat, and then have her shoot at a paper silhouette target at a distance of 16.5 feet she'd miss anything vital more than 9 times out of 10 and would frequently miss the whole target. Keep in mind that this is still a non-moving target with no cover and even with the epinephrine she doesn't have the mental stress and urgency that comes with an assailant actually attacking.
With the above example I might go so far as to say she'd likely miss the whole target until she'd put enough rounds through the gun to qualify for a 1 skill in pistols unless she got really lucky. I've seen friends, with average coordination and no firearms experience, miss a target completely at similar ranges with much more controllable hand guns.
Now skill is going to have a much bigger impact on accuracy as range increases. At 2-3 feet Granny should have pretty good odds of hitting just by pointing in her assailants general direction and pulling the trigger with her eyes closed. On the other hand, the extreme for medium range is 65.6 feet and she's going to miss that every time unless God smiles on her personally!
So in SR3 terms if we were to add a point blank range category that was half of short range, with a target number of 2 instead of 4 and then change the rules for defaulting to an attribute such that it's +1/range category it might prove more reasonable. So for Granny using a heavy pistol it would be target number 3 out to about 8 feet, 6 out to 16 feet, 8 out to 65 feet, 9 out to 131 feet, and 14 if she were shooting out to 196 feet.
Now of course said thug gets to try to dodge with combat pool and he's going to succeed almost every time if he's got even a couple of dice to rub together. Your average thug has a combat pool of what 4-5? Granny's in trouble unless she catches him by surprise, or is extremely lucky.
But with a quickness of 1 she's close to crippled so this may not be completely unreasonable. If we were to bump her to a 3 quickness and allow her to use some combat pool at point blank range, our thug is probably in having some sifficulties.
Just some thoughts...
kzt, Mercer, I don't know about you guys...
My grandma was a terror to behold with a double-barreled break-action in her hands. She had two, and kept 'em loaded next to her bed.
I never saw her have to use them For Real, but my older uncles all said they'd seen her take out four foxes fixing on her chicken coop in the middle of a field at nighttime with four shots from two shotguns.
So, if we're talking "down-home country grandma", I woulden't say it's at all unreasonable to give her Firearms 2 or 3, with a specialization 4, 5, or even 6 with shotguns. She may not have wired reflexes or anything, but you bet your ass she has the skill pool at least to go a round or two.
And frankly, in the Sixth World I'd say it's entirely likely that someone who's lived into the good ole golden years and hasen't been in a sheltered corporate enclave the whole time has some Edge backing up their survival.
Now, if you're talking citified grandma who's never fired the piece she's trying to use to protect herself, she'd better hope some good samaritan Shadowrunner comes along to bail her ass out. That, or hope she's chipping a skillsoft. (Old folks can use 'ware too, y'know.
)
My grandma was a terror to behold with a double-barreled break-action in her hands. She had two, and kept 'em loaded next to her bed.
I never saw her have to use them For Real, but my older uncles all said they'd seen her take out four foxes fixing on her chicken coop in the middle of a field at nighttime with four shots from two shotguns.
So, if we're talking "down-home country grandma", I woulden't say it's at all unreasonable to give her Firearms 2 or 3, with a specialization 4, 5, or even 6 with shotguns. She may not have wired reflexes or anything, but you bet your ass she has the skill pool at least to go a round or two.
And frankly, in the Sixth World I'd say it's entirely likely that someone who's lived into the good ole golden years and hasen't been in a sheltered corporate enclave the whole time has some Edge backing up their survival.
Now, if you're talking citified grandma who's never fired the piece she's trying to use to protect herself, she'd better hope some good samaritan Shadowrunner comes along to bail her ass out. That, or hope she's chipping a skillsoft. (Old folks can use 'ware too, y'know.
)
Why? Serious question. How does Edge help the ordinary person, who is much more likely to encounter a very long series of tests rather than individual high-difficulty tests?
~J
~J
When you're rolling against congenital heart disease, Alzheimers, and the like, woulden't you want a high Edge score to bring to bear?
And of course, random chance, especially in the fifth world, means that sooner or later you're going to come up against a life-threatening situation, even if it has nothing to do with crime - automobile accidents, house fires, and the like. To say nothing of the chance of crime happening to or near you.
It's for situations like those that having the Edge to offset the fact that you don't train for such eventualities daily will be important. The random average joe with little or no Edge will have a much lower survival rate against such happenings than the random average joe with a higher Edge rating.
And of course, if you're human and invest everything in Edge, it may eventually come to the point that you have the possibility to make a Long Shot test using edge only - and with 8 edge, that Long Shot becomes a Sure Shot. For things like, say, jumping out of a building and surviving (albiet injured), guiding an aeroplane in for a landing, or simply surviving health conditions that would otherwise eliminate your dice pool.
And of course, random chance, especially in the fifth world, means that sooner or later you're going to come up against a life-threatening situation, even if it has nothing to do with crime - automobile accidents, house fires, and the like. To say nothing of the chance of crime happening to or near you.
It's for situations like those that having the Edge to offset the fact that you don't train for such eventualities daily will be important. The random average joe with little or no Edge will have a much lower survival rate against such happenings than the random average joe with a higher Edge rating.
And of course, if you're human and invest everything in Edge, it may eventually come to the point that you have the possibility to make a Long Shot test using edge only - and with 8 edge, that Long Shot becomes a Sure Shot. For things like, say, jumping out of a building and surviving (albiet injured), guiding an aeroplane in for a landing, or simply surviving health conditions that would otherwise eliminate your dice pool.
Who's to say that the average person in question didn't invest a little in their Edge, but then during the course of that dangerous lifetime already had to burn it off in an occasional 'life-threatening situation', or even just in staving off that congenital heart disease?
It's possible they burnt it, if they had a high BODY and decided burning a die o Edge to re-roll failures was more likely to net successes than rolling the dice and taking their chances.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Who's to say that the average person in question didn't invest a little in their Edge... |
The GM.
On the grandma front, we had a terrible incident in Atlanta last year when the police serving a (falsified) No-Knock warrant broke into the home of an eldery woman. She wounded three police officers before they shot and killed her. Its a pretty tragic story all around, and I'm not really using it as an explanation of game mechanics, its just its what this dicussion reminded me of.
Gaining Edge is almost purely a metagame concern. How in the world does somebody make themselves "luckier"? All the other stats I can see being improved through effort, but to me Edge seems like its beyond conscious control, even beyond a character's awareness.
| QUOTE (Mercer) |
| The GM. |
And just what great difference does it make to the game whether random average dude A has an Edge of 2 because he didn't bother to raise it, or because he used to have a 4 and burned a couple of points? The important stat is that he has an Edge of 2, not how he come to end up with it at that rating.
Mercer, that is a terrible story.
So, crooked cops try to play stormtrooper, grannie wounds three of them before they take her out, and none of the fascist wannabes get themselves deaded?
That's sad.
So, crooked cops try to play stormtrooper, grannie wounds three of them before they take her out, and none of the fascist wannabes get themselves deaded?
That's sad.
If it's the tale I remember the police were not using a false warrent but the moron who got it had the wrong address on it,sending the swat team to the house next door.
It is tragic but the boots-on-the-ground cops were not at fault. A no knock warrent means they're expecting something really bad and do not want to give any heads up to the bad guys. No one blames the victim for shooting back since all she knew was 'home invasion' there was no cry of 'police open up" It makes sense that the officers didn't take casualties, they were expecting trouble, maybe armed resistance and so acteed accordingly.
It is tragic but the boots-on-the-ground cops were not at fault. A no knock warrent means they're expecting something really bad and do not want to give any heads up to the bad guys. No one blames the victim for shooting back since all she knew was 'home invasion' there was no cry of 'police open up" It makes sense that the officers didn't take casualties, they were expecting trouble, maybe armed resistance and so acteed accordingly.
| QUOTE (Mercer @ Dec 28 2007, 10:54 PM) |
| On the grandma front, we had a terrible incident in Atlanta last year when the police serving a (falsified) No-Knock warrant broke into the home of an eldery woman. She wounded three police officers before they shot and killed her. |
Actually, later reports are she didn't hit anyone. The highly trained narcotics team wounded each other with cross-fire and bullet fragments when shooting at her. Then all got arrested because they lied about every aspect of the incident.
EDIT:http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/
Johnston got off one shot, the bullet missing her target and hitting a porch roof. The three narcotics officers answered with 39 bullets.
Five or six bullets hit the terrified woman. Authorities never figured out who fired the fatal bullet, the one that hit Johnston in the chest. Some pieces of the other bullets -- friendly fire -- hit Junnier and two other cops.
The officers handcuffed the mortally wounded woman and searched the house.
There was no Sam.
There were no drugs.
There were no cameras that the officers had claimed was the reason for the no-knock warrant.
Just Johnston, handcuffed and bleeding on her living room floor.
That is when the officers took it to another level. Three baggies of marijuana were retrieved from the trunk of the car and planted in Johnston's basement. The rest of the pot from the trunk was dropped down a sewage drain and disappeared.
The three began getting their stories straight.
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