Several of my players were wanting to know how much money they could make doing 'work' in the downtime between runs.

Like the street sammy doing some bodyguard work on the side.

And the 'faceman' thinking about pimping out some 'tricked out grrls'

Are there any rules for 'supplemental income'?

The side work can't generate too much cash, or the character wouldn't need to do runs. (except to get the mondo adrenaline fix)

Since 'jobs' tend to, generally, be of the same quality as the 'lifestyle' of the person doing the work I was thinking of a simple solution.

If said character had a 'marketable' quality about them and they took downtime to do the 'job', simply allow the character to make an edge roll when it is time to pay the monthly bill for their lifestyle. For each success it reduces the cost of their lifestyle by 10%.

Thoughts and suggestions always welcome

I don't know, personally I liked the solution that another poster came up with in another thread which is just figure out what level of lifestyle the Runner's dayjob would support and just give it to the character.

Of course, the player should realize that there is no such thing as a "free lunch" in the Sixth World and as the DM you have every right to use the dayjobs as plothooks anytime you feel like it, including in the middle of another run.

There was a "day job" edge (Edit: or was it a flaw?) in previous editions that simply generated a set amount of cash per level purchased per month. The key is that the GM has to call on the player at totally inconvenient times (as Ravor suggested) in order to balance it. Otherwise its just free money.

@raverbane: Take a look here.

I had a good concept for a Hacker character who worked like a good little corp employee during the day, but was addicted to his secret life as a Shadowrunner by night. Would be a great character but I've no idea how I could balance the having of a good job against other player's day to day struggle to survive.

If a Day Job isn't going to impact money or "get in the way" of the runner, why isn't this just part of the background? I guess I often question why a player needs to have an item on his character sheet in order to be a part of the character...

"Hey mister GM, I'm cool, can I get some free money between games for my cool skill X?"

Day jobs fall into one of two categories: normal jobs or shadow jobs.

Normal jobs and shadowrunners don't mix. Not long term. Sure, it's hilariously fun when the cybered-up street sam is an accountant by day(*), but the boss is going to get uncomfortable when his fixer or teammates stop by for coffee. Uncomfortable enough that he'll jump to conclusions when the place gets shot up a few weeks from now, and fire the guy on the spot.

Still, I've got no problem with a runner doing that, and even getting money for it for the added role playing -- but it won't last. While it does, though, if the player is jumping through enough hoops to justify keeping the income while staying in the shadows, as a GM I don't have a problem with that. Leading a double life is hard.

Shadow jobs -- and this includes mercenary work, bodyguard work, etc. are a different story. These would just be like "runs" to me. It's not really a "day" job. Once you get into the "normal" side of these jobs (soldier? cop?) you can really see they just won't work for a shadowrunner very long.

I admit, I never had a player want to be a pimp as a day job. That's hilarious. I suspect the first time he has to put a troll john in his place will be the last time he pimps -- at least, once he regains consciousness...


Always, though, the thing to keep in mind is that there is a reason the characters are running in the shadows, and not working at Stuffer Shack. That reason has to be more than "because I've got muscle replacement." If the character's background isn't thought out well enough to elucidate that reason, it needs work.

If the background does allow shadow work and daytime work, it probably won't work out for both for very long. The hypothetical adrenaline junky knasser mentioned is likely to loose his job, get scared out of the shadows, or get himself killed taking a risk. Not that I'd have any problems with a character background like that -- on the contrary, I think it's great! But it's not free cash, as raverbane's players seem to think.


(*) "Jim, what have I told you about slicing the copier in half with your dikoted katana? I don't care if it would only duplicate in half-tone, it's coming out of your salary!"

"Jim, we've had some complaints about you intimidating your co-workers. We've had this conversation before, and I thought we agreed that the last doughnut is not a good enough reason to draw spurs? No, it doesn't matter if it is for your symbiotes!"

"Jim, that's three chairs this week that have crumpled under you. It's coming out of your salary. No, I really don't think the Rehabilitation Act covers excessive weight from bone lacing as a disability we have to support."

"Jim, Joan found EX Explosive ammo in the fridge again. You know you aren't supposed to bring that in to work."

"Jim, I know I told you not to use your spurs in the office... but... could you open this toner package? The plastic just won't tear..."

"Oh, Jim, there you are. I've got some messages for you. Ed, in personel, needs those expense reports checked over. James, in sales, says he needs you to crunch some numbers for him for a client. And someone named 'Bl00dKaet' says your sister is being held for ransom until you return the chips from you-know-where."


Edit: Moon-Hawk posted his quote while I was writing this, and I have to agree. Paying the runner in lifestyle, rather than cash, is a great idea.

We have had a game where we started out as a security firm. That was fun.

Another game we ended up eventually forming a security firm, with a nice abandoned geothermal power complex out in the lava fields as a base. Paid a bunch of money in bribes, etc. It was useful for the character who kept trying to figure out how she was going to get real use of the tbird they had acquired and she spend half her time working on. Never really did....

But if people want to be playing characters who essentially have a secret shadowrunning habit, that's cool also. But you need to set that up when you build the game.

If people want to be small scale crooks that's really pretty perfect. They get a certain amount of money, but they need to "deal with" the kind issues that come up in that sort of lifestyle during play.

The upshot is - nothing prevents a character from taking a temp job for some quick cash. But the justification has to be plausible and not so complex as to overshadow most shadowruns - "hey, I rob banks for fun on the weekends..."

But for the type of money to make the character's time worthwhile represents a significant risk of complication.

Example, as a muscled thug, I could work the door Saturday nights at the local drinking hole. That nets me $100 for the evening. Maybe. And that's on the high end.

A samurai with 400k nuyen of cyberware doing the same thing? Unlikely, unless it's for role-play purposes - "I spend time at this place, building my rep and making it 'my' drinking hole. The waitresses know me, the bartender has my favorite drink waiting when I walk in and the locals know to keep it quiet so nobody disturbs my drinking."

Other character types have it a little easier - wizworms wiggle their fingers, put on a floor show and get paid a lot more because there just aren't as many mages to be had.

Hackers or other critters with high b/r skills might make custom gear and then sold to interested fixers who deal in that sort of stuff. Mechanics with garage owner contacts might start working on cars sitting in the lot. Got a contact with a minor security firm? "Hey Bob, need anyone to walk around with a flashlight for 12 hours at a construction site? Boring, but I need the $7 an hour paycheck."

-Siege

Anyone with astral perception should be able to find someone to pay him to make wards. Even a 1 point ward is very useful to many people.

The problems with these side jobs is not a simple day job with 10-20 nuyen an hour, the problem is PCs doing crime. Oh, not any moral aspect of course, but the fact that the whole team cannot join in and enjoy themselves, so either it has to be something in the background or the group has to wait for one player doing his "GTA" sidejob instead of playing Shadowrun.

This can get even more hairy when the PCs get greedy - stealing a fancy car a week can suddenly net more nuyen than most jobs. So I can either tell a player "you can't do it", or just hand over money just because the PC has a skill.

Then there are all the things you have to consider: What does the job pay? If theft, how often can the PC do it without guaranteed being caught or simply emptying the "pond"? When will organized crime notice the runner (not always easy if the runner is discreet), and take action? When will LS do the same?

Which is why I use Moon-Hawk's idea of not actually giving money for the sidejobs, just handling out whatever lifestyle I think could be supported.

Easy solution: Make the side job a team effort, involve all PCs.

Running a talismonger shop works for that - face handles contacts, dealings, and advertising, mage enchants, samurai covers security (especially on excursions to gather telesma), rigger does transport, hacker covers information, market analysis, and matrix security.

An escort service can be run by a team as well, with similar division of labor. Or a smuggling business, or a weapon customisation shop.

Which is very true - the actual thieves make a small, small percentage of the car's value and re-sale.

And in SR, the risks can be lethal to the point of absurdity - anyone who's going to splurge on genuine Sasquatch hide for the interior is going to have something equally silly and probably morbid for the security rig.

Which leads up to the inevitable conflict between the actual runner's job versus this expensive and risky hobby.

-Siege

one of the drawbacks of having day jobs is less time to train up skills and attributes. If you play with training times, then having a day job makes it that much harder to find the time to actually practice with your katana.
even is you don't use training times, you still should take into consideration the fact that as sinless scum it is that much harder to find decent paying "jobs." Just like in stealing a car, you're going to make much less as a talismonger thatn if you had a sin (which comes with it's own drawbacks.) You will be rather severely limited in where you can sell your goods, the shadows. Probably the best down time job a pc could have is hacking for paydata, but since that always involves risks, i wouldn't allow it to be background.
As far as pimping is concerned, when i play that other game that's not to mentioned on this board, i pretty much always play pc's with some kind of good alignment. In SR I played and encouraged my players to be the good guys. Like it said in loose alliances if you want to play a racist/ fascist etc you probably ought to have your head checked out.

I believe it was specifically only fascists that were singled out in that little tirade in Loose Alliances.

Regardless, this is something to which I strongly object. I have no problem if someone wants to play a character with strange (to me) morals, just as I have no problem if someone wants to play a boy scout. It is a role-playing game, and a decidedly amoral one at that, and I believe that there is nothing wrong with wanting to explore a role. To add to that, the archetypical Tir elf is about as fascist as you can get. I really think this kind of preaching (especially when it singles out one faction and leaves the rest alone) should be left out of the sourcebooks in the future.

And before you say anything, I am not a fascist, but I play one on TV.

On TV?

It's an old joke, based on a tv commercial about medicine from many moons ago. The spokesman was an actor who played a doctor on one of those medical shows (Marcus Welby MD.?), and that is a paraphrase of his tagline ... "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV".

I guess you have to be old ...

personally i'm not interested in role playing a character who sexually exploits others for personal profit: beating your women and forcing them to have sex for money is not amoral, it's immoral. If other players want to explore such themes go for; I just find it repugnant. Now I did play a female character who owned and ran a strip club, but no one was forced to work there
I fairly certain that the tirade included racism. And while some of my characters feel they are superior, in part based on their race, they don't want to exploit or exterminate other races.
Yes typical upper class, tir elves are fascist, and I wouldn't want to play one. A refugee from the tir certainly, a member of the resistance absolutely.
I think that there is a large difference between being an outlaw (shadow runner) and being evil.
I don't play a boy scout in real life or on TV, they're too homophobic.

To each his own, I guess. Which is why I object to being preached at in a gaming book.



The quote in question ...

I'm generally a live and let live type of person, there are just some things that I find repugnant and don't think should be encouraged even in an RPG setting. If your players wanted to explore pimping little boys and girls would you allow them to explore this pedophilia? Especially since virtually every pimp uses his own goods as a means of keeping them in line. In the case of pimping I should make explicit that I have absolutely no objection to prostitution, just the pimping part. And now I think that we have hijacked this thread so far off it's original question as to make it totally irrelevant.
To go back to the original question regarding side jobs. If they're going to just be background then there should be virtually no risk; otherwise they can't really be background. If there is no risk, then the rewards should be commenserately small

We're talking about a side job, so sure. Especially if it were appropriate for the type of campaign I was running (ie Organized Crime/Ganger/Street Level).



This isn't really a factor, because actual sex pretty much always happens 'off-screen' (ie. referenced but not described in detail).

Besides which, this type of thing would make interesting inter-character fodder, as the other PCs deal with the pimp's non-shadowrunning activities.

WEll like I said in another thread, before I agree to run a campaign I amek sure to sit my players down and explain that in my camapign nothing is "off limits", although I will "fade to black" as needed, if your runner gets captured by a troll ganger who likes to rape humans up the ass then your character is going to be getting sodimized and if your character becomes aware that one of the other chracters is stalking him/her then an In-Character premptive strike is the best way to handle the situation.


However, like I said in the other thread, I don't deal with people who are are fucked-up freaks in real life.

And I was so hoping that a) I know a celebrity and b) you've found well-paid and cool job.

I had a friend playing a psychotic ex-marine in a campaign once. When the runs got boring, the game shifted to side jobs (a well needed break). He got bored working at a local sandwich shop, however, and started asking customers if they wanted "extra" condiments... like grenades, bullets, phosphorus, or his "sweat soaked underwear, fresh from his groin". The next day he would come to work dressed like a woman, and his elf buddy (also merc) began cutting the lettuce with his katana. Upon being fired they leveled the place with C4, and the team returned to the Shadows promptly. They made themselves national terrorists for a week before making a Run to edit the security footage and plant scandalous documents matrix-wide about Subway's own insipid attempt at vying for attention. Hey what can I say besides "eat fresh"?

Hey! I'm named in Dunkleberry's Will. How much more of a celebrity do I need to be?



Been there, done that, wasted all the money! Nowadays, work would seriously cut into my Dumpshock time.

You're awesome!

My theory is that players should have a strong reason to be Shadowrunners or they'd be doing, whatever, instead. If a character is willing to sit around in a dull 9-5 for a few extra yen, why the hell are they running around in tight leather at odd hours getting shot at everyone who wants they're stuff back? I personally prefer to let players work "odd jobs", like being a bouncer at a local club, driving a Taxi, or TAing at a local school. The kind of thing that's low profile, low pay, and doesnt' require them to show up at a particular time. I'd give them straight nuyen for these jobs, because realistically they're only going to be making enough money to buy a couple extra boxes of Ex-Ex or a new smartlink for that rifle they picked off the Merc last week. They're primary bread winner is still going to be running and the game never develops into Gold Farmer Run.

I like the comment that players who have day jobs have a harder time training and getting ready between runs. If you work a 40 hour work week and spend an average of 10-30 hours ontop of that planning and completing runs, you're going to be dead tired all the goddamn time. And what happens if you miss a shift? Also, unless runners are SINners they're working under the table or one fake ID's. What happens when DHS hackers scan through employment records and find "ID inconsistencies" with some of their employees? Better hope you can con the immigration officials into deporting you to Kazikstan.

If players have an illegal side job I'd probably resolve it through email. I'd tell players I'm going to make all the relevant roles and let them know how succesful they are. I'd roll the relevant skill and depending on how many successes the pull I'd, give them an amount of money. Glitches would mean things didn't go as planned, critical glitches mean that they've attracted the attention of Very Bad People. Hell, I'd probably start the next game session with.
"Your commlink beeps and a bailsbondsman contracted by Lone Star lets you know that Phil is currently being detained pending trial for <insert crimes here>" Players either spring him, pay the bond, or give Phil's player the stink eye and hand him a new character sheet.

Nothing comes free right?