If I recall correctly, Striper (the 'shifter assassin from the novels) prefers to use a Kang heavy pistol. I have seen a number of people request information on this weapon in vain, as it is not listed anywhere in canon.

Today I was reading Target: Matrix when I came upon the mention of a custom weapon designer in the Mosaic Data Haven section (pg. 53) who goes by the name Kang. He supplies a lot of weapons to people around the Pacific Rim, where it just so happens that Striper has done quite a bit of work in the past.

So it seems that the gun does have a canon reference after all.

heh. given that the Striper books came out before T:M, it's more probable the that canon reference was sparked by the novel reference.

but, yeah. it's canon!

Yeah I know the release order. I just thought it was cool that it was buried in such an out-of-the-way place.

an SR tradition, that!

Well, I would think Kang Tao, but I doubt any serious assassin would use a Kang Tao if he could help it...

Where were you two months ago? I said so in September. I had happened to find it purely by happenstance while re-reading T:M and since I remembered someone had been looking for it I posted it here:

Kang 11mm, Looking for the previous thread

BTW I also found it nice that it was buried in a completely out-of-the-way place.

Or for a more direct link ( )...
Neue Seite 4

lol - sry but a semiautomatic pistol with damage code 10 M and concealment 5...looks like munchkin

I dunno. I'm personally considering using Raygun's firearms some day in a shadowrun games and there are several pistols in that that do 10M. They just add some extra recoil too.

The picture for the Kang on that site has been extremely poorly chosen, though. There's no way in hell a small framed 9x19 could pack 15 11mm rounds (12 maybe), and the round would have to be extremely short, too. If there are no canon stats for it anywhere, I'd drop the damage back down to 9M, mag size to 12 and the weight to something more sane, like 2.5kg.

Or if you want it to be a real handcannon, keep the 10M damage, drop mag size to, say, 9, and weight to 3kg.

The weights are still WAY too high for real weapons, but SR weapons are supposedly made of osmium, so that should be no problem in an otherwise canon game. If you want a more realistic approach, read up on Raygun's stuff and make up your own stats.

Maybe the rounds are the new 45 Glock?

11mm on a short case!

Well, the .45GAP is ~11.5mm in diameter, so that pretty much rules that out. And it wouldn't change the fact that getting 15 11mm rounds in a magazine requires a really large frame. But that's just fluff, since apparently Concealability 5 does include some really damn big guns (like the Predator, the original drawing of which is fricken huge).

More importantly, though, if it is something like the .45GAP (ie. a really short cartridge so that it can fit into smaller framed pistols), it sure as hell shouldn't do 10M. The .45AGP is nowhere near the most destructive end of the pistol caliber spectrum.

hot loaded hollow points?

+p+ modified Glaser rounds?



Not effective against armor but what the heck

But then that has absolutely nothing to do with the Power of the base ammunition. You could use +P+ Glaser rounds on a Predator, too.

Although just plain higher Power in such a case is probably not the right way to represent the effect -- Power is also Penetration in this game, and making Glaser rounds penetrate better is just plain wrong. But then making them do more damage even against unarmored targets might be wrong (because of the ultra-sucky penetration). Maybe just use Flechette rules for such ammunition. After all, real flechette ammunition acts nothing like the things that one can find in the SR3 book, as has been discussed on this forum several times.

so then we are talking about a 44 caliber cartridge, in a semi auto format, with a 15 round clip.

Would that 10M code constitute a magnum load in the cartridge? Maybe its a wild cat cartridge or a throw back to an older type (44 special, 44 russian).

High concealability could also constitute a custom job desingned around the user. Ergonomic frame, creative placement of the clip.

if its caseless, wouldn't that allow for a 15 round clip?

After all it is a game, and as Austere pointed out the rules don't mimic real life.

There is nothing, anywhere, that says that canon Heavy Pistols that do 10M are .44 caliber. And you'll be really hard pressed to find any gun-freak on this forum that'll second that it should be a .44. Especially when there's a world of difference between a .44 Special, a .44 (Auto) Magnum, and eg a .440 COR-BON Magnum.

But yeah, I think it's a fair call that to do 10M Damage, a gun in SR should be relatively as powerful as a .44 Magnum is today IRL. But that's just personal opinion.

Concealability isn't about ergonomy, it's about concealing the gun. To fit 15 rounds of something that looks like .44 Mag in a pistol, it would have to be really thick and high. A thick and high gun isn't very likely to be concealable, no matter how ergonomic. But, like I said, the Predator is fricken huge and still has Conc 5, so it doesn't matter much.

Going caseless wouldn't help, as far as I can figure. Looking at real world caseless rounds, it looks quite likely that either such rounds would be slimmer and shorter by an extremely small margin (the space the actual casing takes, which isn't that much), or they could be much shorter but significantly wider (especially when considering pistol cartridges -- with rifles you could save in length without adding width). And the main problem with having a large-capacity large-caliber magazine in a pistol is the diameter of the rounds, which would at best be reduced by a negligible amount.

If the books say absolutely nothing about it having a 10M damage code, a mag of 15, or anything else either, then just make up stuff for your games. The rules don't have to make any sense at all when you create such a gun for your games. Just don't post the stats on the net if you don't want me to rip into them.

concealability isn't just size though it also is based on how well the MAD find them. It may have less metal, or maybe it has a shape that the computers in the new fangled SR MADs interpret as something non threatening.

doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't let a 10m big clip 5 conceal, SA pistol into my games.