Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Navy: Accelerate your Railgun
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
fistandantilus4.0
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327205,00.html

love.gif

*drool*

QUOTE
DAHLGREN, Va. —  A futuristic weapon getting a trial run by the Navy demonstrated its destructive power at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren.

In the demonstration Thursday, engineers fired the electromagnetic railgun at what they said was a record power level: 10 megajoules.

The previous railgun power-use record was about 9 megajoules of muzzle energy.



Railguns use electromagnetic energy to launch projectiles long distances — more than 200 nautical miles.

Because the railgun uses electricity and not gunpowder to fire projectiles, it eliminates the possibility of explosions on ships.

The Navy hopes the railgun will eventually replace the standard 5-inch gun on its ships. The weapon isn't expected to be deployed until at least 2020.

[A joule is defined as the energy needed to produce one watt of electricity for one second.

The railgun tested Thursday actually has a capacity of 32 megajoules, but the Navy is slowly building up the energy level in a series of tests.

That's a lot of power, but with a new series of electrically-powered ships coming on line, the Navy figures generating capacity will not be a problem.

According to the Navy, the railgun, when fully developed, will be able to launch solid projectiles at Mach 5, or about 3,700 mph.]
hobgoblin
electrically powered ships? more like they have some reactor or good old fashion diesel engine hooked up to a generator, and then runs some very big cables to the engines. electrically powered make it sound like they are running on big big banks of batteries...
Nightwalker450
Lots of sailors running around in giant hamster wheels will power the ships. Its a good exercise program biggrin.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
electrically powered ships? more like they have some reactor or good old fashion diesel engine hooked up to a generator, and then runs some very big cables to the engines. electrically powered make it sound like they are running on big big banks of batteries...

...or a very long extension cord. grinbig.gif
stevebugge
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 1 2008, 06:16 AM)
electrically powered ships? more like they have some reactor or good old fashion diesel engine hooked up to a generator, and then runs some very big cables to the engines. electrically powered make it sound like they are running on big big banks of batteries...

...or a very long extension cord. grinbig.gif

Sounds like it's time to buy stock in the power company in Norfolk

Seriously they probably mean nuclear reactors
mfb
QUOTE (Nightwalker450)
Lots of sailors running around in giant hamster wheels will power the ships. Its a good exercise program

...which is why the Navy picked it up instead of the Air Force. OHHH!
Stahlseele
our(german) submarines are actually powered by big batteries or lithium ion accus or something like that . .
and yes, if damaged the Rail-Gun will STILL explode like crap . . because the formerly controlled electrical charge and the magnetic field in the capacitators and coils will get out of control and accellerate the parts of the Gun itself into various undesired directions
bluedragon7
QUOTE (Stahlseele)
our(german) submarines are actually powered by big batteries or lithium ion accus or something like that . .

fuel cells, a lot quieter than nuclear powered and higher endurance than the old diesel/battery subs
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (bluedragon7)
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 1 2008, 04:47 PM)
our(german) submarines are actually powered by big batteries or lithium ion accus or something like that . .

fuel cells, a lot quieter than nuclear powered and higher endurance than the old diesel/battery subs

How do they recharge? Do they have to put in to refill their hydrogen tanks, or do they have a noisy nuke plant they can fire up to turn water into hydrogen?
imperialus
IIRC I think they still use a high efficancy diesel engines to charge the batteries. It's still a lot more efficiant than the old diesel electrics though and they have no moving parts outside of the shaft that turns the propeller so they're really quiet.
Stahlseele
and no more poisonous gas when hit by salt water . .
and if they are build with a quick release maybe they can just switch out whole fuel cells(yeah yeah you know it all <.<) on the fly from a supply-ship or something . .
bluedragon7
they have to refuel once a while to get new hydrogen and oxygen, but they can stay submerged for much longer than normal conventional subs, more than 2 weeks, which ist enormous for a nonnuclear sub

they still have a diesel to recharge batteries however


U 212
hobgoblin
there is always these babies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland_class_submarine
bluedragon7
they are also aip, using a sterling engine with diesel and liquid oxygen instead of fuelcells they still have to vent the gas outside, but dont need to snorkel to get the oxygen and Sterlingengines, while still having moving parts are also quieter than diesels
Kyoto Kid
...I remember seeing something about Sterling Engines back in the 70s.

hobgoblin
QUOTE (bluedragon7)
they are also aip, using a sterling engine with diesel and liquid oxygen instead of fuelcells they still have to vent the gas outside, but dont need to snorkel to get the oxygen and Sterlingengines, while still having moving parts are also quieter than diesels

strange that wikipedia say that they use diesel and liquid oxygen as tv program i watched had one of the people working onboard say they used a chemical that would burn without oxygen to produce the heat needed.

still, could very well be that i got some bad memory sectors...
Fortune
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
strange that wikipedia say that they use diesel and liquid oxygen as tv program i watched had one of the people working onboard say they used a chemical that would burn without oxygen to produce the heat needed.

Keep in mind the absolute unfailing reliability of Wikipedia. wink.gif
hobgoblin
i did a bit of searching, and other sites say the same. sadly the place that built it will not say anything specific about it...
Stahlseele
gee, wonder why O.o
perhaps you should find yourself a little group of specialists in breaking and entering/espionage and try to find out? o.O
hobgoblin
thing is, if they could talk about it on tv, why isnt it on the net?
Stahlseele
'cause on the net you'd probably actually find hard specs and not things like:"we're using that and that tech" . . you'd probably find things like:"they're using that and that tech together like this to acchieve this effect which in return does this so THIS actually happens which gives them THAT advantage"
hobgoblin
looks like i either have memory corruption, or the program was lied in the face:
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/aipstirling.html

interestingly, thats their swedish page, but its in english. and it confirms that its running on diesel and oxygen.

i really would love to dig up the program i was watching and check if its me or the program...
Stahlseele
of course they lied into their face O.o
people don't go out and tell everybody and their mom all about the new technology they will be using . . they tell people THAT they will be using it, but they will not tell more than maybe 10% of truth to steer of the competition o.O
hobgoblin
and then the webpage of the maker of said engine goes around and say the truth?

what would then be the point of lying in the first place?

hell, its not like sweden have a direct enemy, like some other nations have...
Stahlseele
disinformation is one of the strongest weapons in war(and marketing pretty much seems to be a battlefield to me) . . but of course they need to tell the truth SOMETIMES to get funding for the other Weapons *g*
the difficulty is being able to lie to the mayority who is your enemy(and in marketing basically the rest of the world appearantly falls under this category) and still being able to convince the people you want to pay you that you're telling THEM the actual truth this time . .
Riley37
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Because the railgun uses electricity and not gunpowder to fire projectiles, it eliminates the possibility of explosions on ships.

That's a serious limitation, if it's used in ship-to-ship combat, because it prevents all explosions on all ships, and sometimes one wants to cause explosions on the target.
DTFarstar
The projectiles themselves can still be fissionable materials, not to mention who cares about making them explode when you can just put several hole below the water line and sink their asses.

Chris
kzt
Typically insensitive modern explosives are safer than the propellant charges.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Riley37 @ Feb 2 2008, 09:23 AM) *
That's a serious limitation, if it's used in ship-to-ship combat, because it prevents all explosions on all ships, and sometimes one wants to cause explosions on the target.


rarely if ever are guns used in ship to ship these days iirc.

its mostly anti-ship missiles.

the guns are most often used for shore bombardment, or maybe taking potshots at lesser targets where a missile would be a waste of money...
nezumi
Drek! Somebody else thought the stupid, purple dwarf picture was too funny to pass up... Now I need to find another picture. You suck, hobgoblin!

(Okay, you don't really suck, but I still need to find another crazy/stupid avatar picture...)
hobgoblin
heh, if you can point me to a copy of acme magic circle paint, im willing to give it up wink.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 3 2008, 04:52 PM) *
heh, if you can point me to a copy of acme magic circle paint, im willing to give it up wink.gif


Heh, I have a copy of that pic on my computer, but I didn't see it among the choices available.
DocTaotsu
Ship guns are no longer considered the optimal way to kill other ships. Surface skimming missiles fired from a multitude of weapon systems are supposed to be pretty damn effective at killing most ships. Submarine launched torpedoes are supposed to be even more effective and that’s not even getting into things like the super cavitation weapons like the Russian Shrike torpedo. Aside from sniping at the occasional pirate/drug runner they don’t get used much. Still pretty cool though, I’ve been told that, used in conjunction with the AEGIS system, a destroyers main gun should be able to shoot WWII artillery shells out of the sky. No, I have no idea how they figured that. In that vein I’ve seen footage of Coast Guard cutters shooting the rudders off fleeing ships.

Riley, I think you misread that quote. The AGS system itself isn’t supposed to have anything that goes boom so if it gets shot it just stops working (instead of ripping the ship in half). The rounds themselves /could/ have HE heads in theory, although the kinetic kill power is supposed to be enough that they don’t need them. This weapon isn’t supposed to put holes in things, it’s supposed to be the next best thing to an orbital bombardment. High velocity .50 round rips people apart just by grazing them, I suspect that a 225 lb AGS round does something similar as it jaunts back to Earth after a brief stint in the upper atmosphere.

In all the literature I’ve read and stuff I can find on the internet the AGS turrets on the DD-1000 are specifically designed for shore bombardment. One article says that the two turrets working in concert can provide the same weight of fire as 18 M-198 howitzers. Looking at some stats it looks like a single AGS should be able to provide twice to 5 times the rate of fire, at least 4 times the range (6 if the get the LRLAP’s to work properly), and draw upon a 300-600 round automated magazine. I’m also seeing that they might be able to resupply and reload these magazines while firing is underway. Currently the only glaring negative (besides the fact that it hasn’t been fielded or combat tested yet) is that the rated accuracy is 50 meters circular error probable. Of course if you’re throwing 10 of these in a minute at the same target that probably isn’t going to be as big a deal. Also I can’t find any firm numbers on destructive capability. I’ve read in the past that the kinetic kill strength was equivalent to a cruise missile. But this was also back in the day when it was going to shoot 200 dollar non explosive rounds (the price is now upwards of 35k a pop).

Basically the long and short is that it shoots real far, real fast, and accurate enough for government work. Given the proper funding and development I’m sure we’ll see it tossing GPS guided, penetration=yes, Doom Bringer rounds

A word on militaries lying about their capabilities. There really isn’t all that much a point in lying about the capabilities of a weapon system you’ll be fielding publicly in a couple of years. First off, it’s artillery, it’s not like it’s some secret weapon that our enemies don’t have a defense against because they’ve never heard about it. Secondly, this is a ship weapon system which means that the people responsible for maintaining, loading, and firing the damn thing are 18 year old enlisted service member. If you don’t think you can’t bribe/finesse a guy fresh out of highschool to slip you a few technical specs on the gun he went to school for 3 months to learn, you probably have very slow Shadowrun games. The parts that you’ll notice conspicuously absent in all the tech briefs are the specifics on how it works. No word on what materials are used in the barrel, how capacitors are installed and rated, or any of the info you’d need to make your very own AGS.

Besides, deterrent force isn’t very effective if the enemy isn’t clear on how thoroughly you can kick the crap out of him. Releasing all the fun facts on how far, how fast, and how badly you can hurt your enemy only lets him now how far behind the power curve he is.

By the way, I’m a big fan of the AGS program. Nothing says “Support The Troops? like timely and effective offshore bombardment.
DocTaotsu
Oh yeah, and the DD-1000 uses a traditional destroyer power source, gas turbines. The particular engine planned for the DD-1000 is a navalized version of the rolls-royce jet turbine mounted on the 777. Turbines are more fuel efficient than traditional boiler power plants and a whole hell of a lot safer. My understanding of boiler power plants is that you throw fuel onto a very hot plate and try to strike that balance between generating a sustained fire and blowing a boiler shaped hole through the bottom of your boat.

Nuke power is limited to subs and carriers. They're kinda a pain in the ass to man because the school for an enlisted nuke tech is a little over a year long and it takes almost 2 years before they get to a ship, you also have to pay them more. Also it makes making port visits a pain because most countries are antsy about letting us park a nuclear pile in their backyard. Japan in particular has a ban on nuke ships using their ports. That's why we have the monsterously old carrier Kitty Hawk in Yokuska. I think they might make an exception for us when we finally scrap the Shitty Kitty but for now, no nukes. I think the Navy built a couple of smaller keel nuke ships back in the 70's but I'm pretty sure we don't field any of them today.
Riley37
The original quote says it prevents ALL explosions on ALL ships. I was making fun of the bad writing. I find it highly implausible that a railgun on Navy Ship A in the Atlantic prevents firecrackers from going off Herring Ketch B in the Pacific, or a fuel explosion on Luxury Yacht C in the Indian Ocean, or Strongbad exploding your head on Ferry D in Puget Sound.
Sure, I realize that one use a railgun to shoot chemical or fission warheads, and that kinetic energy alone would do plenty of damage, varying with specifics of the projectile, eg expensive alloy rounds designed for max penetration, vs cheap lumps of iron.
DocTaotsu
Ha! My bad, I totally missed that. Chalk that up for my entry in the next edition of "Pandas eats, shoots, and leaves."

I'd also like to think we aren't going to start tossing fissionable anything into a weapon that shoots 10 times a minute.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012