So according to pg 210 in the SR4 book there is an example of someone having their commlink in hidden mode. According to the rules, some areas require people to have all of this info available in there profile or whatever. So.. what about people who don't HAVE one? I mean I guess you can assume most people have them, but seriously, everyone? Or is it just a matter of people who didn't have one or couldn't afford one wouldn't be in that area?

Essentially everyone who should be in that area would have one, or some other form of RFID on them with the appropriate information.

If an area requires you to broadcast your information, you will probably get harassed by drones or security guards as soon as you enter. At worst they will probably make you leave (after a search, if you're SINless), though if you can prove who you are they can probably give you an RFID that broadcasts your identity.

But realistically, the only people who don't have commlinks in SR4 are homeless people. And only your homeless people who are too mentally ill to realize that they don't have one. Even a bum can get a cruddy used commlink, which they would probably do because lots of people can't even read without a commlink to speak the words for them. So if you walk into a secure area without a commlink, you're either insane or hiding something. Either way, it won't go ignored.

Imagine what happens to all those
cool
old
cell phones
from the 1980's and 1990's...

Even now they are thrown away by the box full...

Someone who doesn't have a commlink isn't just someone who doesn't have a phone, it's someone who doesn't have any key, any money, any ID card...

So it's either someone suspicious, a SINless or, god forbid, a poor... In any case, it's enough to forbid him the access to the area.

some things to note;
1. Wireless culture is so ingrained to a Seattle resident's life that the ability to conduct even rudimentary day-to-day living is almost impossible WITHOUT a comlink....whether implanted or not....that's right, you can't conduct basic transactions without one....no buying gum at the local store....

2. Seattle has Augmented Reality Icons that, (when viewed via your cybereyes, goggles, shades, or whatever) makes the city look as if it is a modern TRON version of the Wizard of Oz....everything has a green crystalline look about it....which plays on Seattle's nickname of "The Emerald City". But anybody can change their comlink to make the AR iconography as seen via whatever visual means they have connected to their comlink....game literature states that individuals CAN make their comlink's AR iconography as varied or as twisted as they wish.....however, in reality if one were to switch off their comlink...one would seen nothing but acid rain washed buildings, smoggy overcast skies that unload tainted rain most of the time.....also, Mt. Rainer seems set to blow again and it is dropping ash and dust over much of the city.....kinda like the effects of having brushfires somewhere in Bexar County.....you can smell it....and your eyes burn......at the very least- and at the most (so far) you car scraping ash and dust off your car like you would ice on a very cold day.....

3. The law in a particular area that you are in, may not actually be the LAW.....so if guys are (mis)behaving in ways that get you seen (such as not broadcasting).....you may be investigated by some very interesting and nasty enforcers.....this could be in the form of corporate security, Lone Star, UCAS Federal Forces, various gangs, the Mafia, the Vory, the Yaks, the Triads, the Rings

I agree with that. If you have no Commlink you're assumed to be a sinless existence anyway, the system does not care about your fate.
And people who just want to hide themselves seriously for some reason use a second commlink to do that. With a fake SIN, of course. We all know this situation...

An old (but fun) example of this kind of use : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGvIrf86g4Y

Dude Thanks, I forgot about that game. Gonna have to dig through my boxes

KK"...oooo whee, Please stop everything from spinnin pardner."

Djninni: so that means the Short One sees the city for what it really is, a dingy bunch of office slabs covered with a fine layer of wet volcanic soot. Otherwise she'd stumble around bumping into things left & right (Simsense Vertigo).


They end up in landfills in 3rd world countries?

Loved that game turning whole city to your side and loading everyone up in a car then arming them and driveing to your target...bloodbath! Lost my old original found download online but wouldnt work with xp ;(. Great early cyberpunk style game.

Another interesting video to illustrate AR:
http://www.dailymotion.com/rated-week/video/x38mz1_life-20

To play Syndicate Wars under XP, you should try DosBox:
http://www.dosbox.com/
(Remember that it was only working under Dos at release: no Win95 compatibility.)
It works very well with a little tweaking.

If you can't make it works, I must still have my config file somewhere...

Right. My point being old technology doesn't just go away. It trickles down to the little people at the bottom of the social ladder who can salvage what's usable.

And most of the 3rd world landfills in SR are in the Barrens...

Arg... double post!!

not exactly simply using AR isn't the disassociation that creates the vertigo, altering the reality to focus on or manipulate is.
if you see a sign in AR that is stationary and doesn't respond to icon traffic for example a road sign, then you do not suffer, but if you walk into a store and receive spam based upon the sales and coupons etc.... that is when the vertigo hits, its not as debilitating as you make it sound.

but being able to ingest the numerous references you constantly make would help to understand how the individual can make due.

...letsee, a -2 to all tests while using AR/VR. That would also include any defaults for actions that use skills the character does not know. Add to that her Dain Bramaged quality and double plus not good. That is why she does not use trodes or other DNI devices. Instead she treats the commlink like old style PS. Yeah she has to take time to use the roll up keypad and holo-display monitor but she can still pretty much function in society. As long as it is active when she is in those areas where running hidden is taboo, she isn't breaking any rules.

There's no law that says you have to be in AR/VR, just that you have the link operating when required to.

Besides seeing the city for what it is gives one a better perspective on things.

Of course, owning a commlink doesn't necessarily imply using AR. I imagine a lot of commlink owners just use the basic interface: "holo projector/'touch-screen' display, ..., retractable earbuds, voice-access controls" (BBB p318). That'd mean that most people carry around their commlinks for secure identification, for financial transactions (especially automated transactions like paying bus fare or something), for commcalls, and the like. In this situation, only those people who are willing to purchase the more interesting interfaces really deal with AR that much. Given that these more interesting interfaces aren't always that expensive (100 nuyen for subvocal mic + display glasses), those who want AR can get it easily. Casual users, though, will just have their commlinks stuffed into a pocket somewhere, in whatever mode is appropriate.

Um. I forgot where I was going with this. I reserve the right to edit my post after I've had coffee.

...I think you were responding to the way I have the Short One use hers. Yes it makes perfect sense that not everyone would use AR/VR, particularly those who have the Vertigo quality. As long as her link pings it's in the proper mode she should be fine.

...but more caffeine...never a bad thing...

You can access AR with Simsens Vertigo. Glasses and earbuds don't use simsens.

It's true, they don't use simsense. But the description of Simsense Vertigo specifically includes AR. So maybe the name of the quality is a bit off...

I while back it was hashed out that Simsense Vertigo was probably similar in nature to the people who get dizzy and quesy when trying to play FPS today.

I've always thought that quality was poorly named, KK, since it doesn't induce vertigo unless you're actually trying to do something (by my reading). I agree with others above: if you're not trying to interact with the ARO, then there's no vertigo. The vertigo kicks in when message windows remain stationary in your field of view when you move or people are highlighted with fancy colors that stick with them when they move.

Does Simsense Vertigo affect knowsoft or langusoft usage?

But everything in AR is interactive; we're not just talking a heads-up display or multimedia messaging here. Video chat isn't a little window with your friend's face in it, but an actual virtual avatar of your friend walking next to you, or perched on your shoulder if you minimize him. You're not going to pull your commlink out of your pocket just to accept a monorail pass, you're going to reach out and grab the virtual ticket. And that's if you're using gloves; for module users, they just think "take it" and the ticket floats to them like coins in a video game. They walk down the boardwalk dragged along by the directions when they see an animated poster for an upcoming concert, they think "show me" and mentally jump into the poster where they experience a short simstream of the band's last live show, with avatars of their friends who've already bought tickets to the next one rocking along with the music (all while walking along the street). Even if you're not siming the Brawlgame, you're watching in unfold in scalable three dimensional box, or even maximized to encompass your field of view. You don't want to fumble around with a commlink to pause the game when a chat comes through, you want to think: pause, hello? and have your buddy's blinking icon resolve into an avatar already talking about how you've got to come play Miracle Shooter, right now cause he's getting the drek handed to him, and you sigh, change the directions, and go back to the game. This will be the casual user of AR. Streetsigns would know where you came from and where you were going to, showing up like a map marking your passing. Everything would rotate to give you the most aesthetic view, unless you specifically tried to manipulate your view of it... Only people with Vertigo or complete technophobes will be using holodisplays and earbuds.

...which, judging by the illustration in the Core Rules (don't have my PDF handy so I don't have the page reference) of how AR would appear while walking down a street in a commercial district, the Vertigo effect would then kick in. It would be even more of pronounced as you moved along with new windows constantly popping, dissolving, or sliding and out of view.

After all, it is a 10BP quality so it should affect the character a fair part of the time and not just when say she is using a Smartlink or actively surfing the matrix.

perfect example of the vertigo effect, atleast for me occurred this week
I just got glasses for the first time
I put them on and woah, everything was much sharper, hey cool, but I have extremely good peripheral vision, so I see lots of stuff beyond my glasses. thats fine if you are holding your head still, but once i moved my head I started getting nauseous. walking is really bad since I have a mangled pelvis, i kind of waddle back and forth somewhat. That makes my vision bob around. I'm getting used to it but its still a little odd when I get up and walk around.

No!

I wouldn't do that, no. There's no appearance of anything, IMO, during the usage of those technologies to induce vertigo.



But it doesn't have to be. If someone can change Seattle's default AR display to be something else, then they should be able to work within their vertigo. Not interested in seeing a full-fledged walking avatar of your chatroom buddies following you around town? Turn off the display of your system and hear their voices talking to you more like a commcall. I guess the line I try to draw is this: If the AR iconography moves on its own, then it causes vertigo. If it remains stationary or specifically attached to another physical thing (like a highlighted person or car) then it does not. The vertigo is the brain's way of trying to reconcile the lack of a physical object and the apparent existence of a virtual ARO. 'Course, VR will always result in vertigo.




The windows and stuff of that nature would cause vertigo (in my games) since they're not attached to a physical object, I'll agree with you there.

Which is essentially turning off the AR, like browsing the web in text only. Which you can do, and vertigo afflicted characters should, but they'll never understand why everyone tells them Seattle's Skywalk is soooo awesome, when it's just an overcrowded kilometer long mall slash conveyor belt... Or just how Chiltons Auto AR Suite makes even the toughest task a simple series of dance steps. It's like part of the world will forever be out of the character's reach.

Though you could manage some of that with knowsofts. Instead of having directions appear as yellowbricking the road, or dogleashing, you could have them streamed as knowsoft data on demand. Rather than flipping through a list of icons looking for your friend's number, you just have the address book knowtarized...

knowtarized ... I like it.

That is essentially, though, what I'm talking about. The average simsense vertigo sufferer doesn't play FPS AR games, doesn't get warned if a vehicle is about to hit him when crossing the street, and definitely doesn't get any handy AR help when firing a weapon or driving their car. But, that doesn't mean that they're completely cut off from all things computer related.

since they are more like simulated knowledge then a encyclopedia or dictionary in your head, no.

still, im having a bit of a hard time envisioning the actual use of knowsofts, but thats maybe its because i have not sat down and thought about how one make use of knowledge in the first place. now that i do however it would be like "i dont understand it at all", chip in, "well ill be, it all makes sense now". as in, there would be no real indication in your head when you where using the knowsoft and when you didnt. maybe except that no matter how much you read or did while making use of said chip, it would not add to the pool of knowledge. something that could become frustrating over time i guess.

hmm, something tells me that if one tap into a knowsoft on some subject for a while, and then "un-chip", it could become ever so slighty annoying as one would have a memory of knowing something on a subject but failing to recall what exactly it was about...

btw, on the topic of vertigo, i read it as being similar to motion sickness. as in, your sense of balance/motion is telling you that your moving, but your eyes are not registering anything moving and so on.

also, while i have a history of becoming motion sick while traveling by boat or car, i dont get it while playing a FPS. but i do get it if im watching someone else play one.

Maybe knowchips work with your short-term memory. When you need some information, it'll be "transfered" from the chip to your short-term memory. Either that or it acts like an external long-term memory: when you're looking for an information covered by the knowchip, the request will be sent to the chip instead of your own memory. As it's already supposed to be somewhere in memory, it won't be stored in the natural long-term memory. So when you unplug the chip, your brain will go looking for that place and won't find it.

It makes sense, but since I don't know much about how memory works, this might actually be totally off.

well given recent research it seems that memory is more like firing off neurons at near random until a "familiar" pattern emerges or something like that.

but then that can make one wonder how we are able to remember said pattern in the first place, so...

Knowsofts actually override a user's natural understanding of a subject, too, which means taking directions via knowsofts would prevent you from remembering a shortcut, or a Consumer Report knowsoft would override your personal experience with a particular appliance - all in addition to not remembering how you got to the store or exactly why you thought Mercury's Masswave Oven was the best buy when you remember the last one melting the entire counter into a pink plastic hunk that looked suspiciously like a bunny.