Would the adept power of Improved Reaction affect astral initiative and reaction?

No, because Astral Initiative is calculated using 'Intuition x 2' in place of 'Intuition + Reaction'. On the Astral, a character's Mental Attributes stand in for their Physical ones.

I have a hunch he's asking about Improved Reflexes.

If it were the spell Increase Reflexes it wouldn't, because the spell is Physical and I'd be tempted to use that as my guideline here.

That occurred to me, but since he specifically used the word 'reaction' twice, I figured I would answer the question as asked.

Also, as a weird side note, apparently the spell Increase Attribute: Initution wouldn't boost Astral Initiative either because the Inc. Att spells are Physical. Personally, I think the mental boosts should be Mana. If this has been, or is ever, mentioned in the errata, somebody tell me.

Hmm.. it was specifically asked about the adept power. In which case yes, at least as much astral as you'll get which is perception. Adepts/Mystic Adepts cannot project. So an adept will continue to work in the meat when astrally perceiving and get his bonus to initiative while fighting things that are not projecting.

I believe the answer is yes (please note, he specified SR3). However, I don't believe the mystical adept has astral projection, only perception, so there's no way to get the adept power of increased reflexes AND astral perception, so you always use your normal, physical initiative because at best you can astrally perceive.

I think you were closest to the correct answer (with my correction) for most circumstances.

However, SoTA64 introduces the Limited Astral Projection metamagic (page 63) for Magicians Way Adepts. The text says all adept powers function normally while projecting, so the answer to the original post is Yes.

I hate tags!

Thanks for the answers everyone, and yes I did mean third edition and the adept power.



As a side note, this is why third and fourth edition should have separate forums. Otherwise you get about 6 posts before someone realizes it's not for the same edition

I don't really think it's all that hard to actually include the fact that you are talking about an out-dated edition (there are 3 of these ... should we have a forum for each?) in your post. That would go a lot further to alleviate any confusion.

You normally aren't such a troll Fortune. He tagged it properly. Would be nice if a post icon was mandatory and people actually looked at the tag.

He did tag it properly, and I (obliquely) admitted my error in not noticing the tag.

I then responded to his comment about separate forums with my opinion on a way (actually two ways) to further alleviate confusion. In what way is that being a 'troll'?

SR4 is the officially supported product (at the moment), and therefore should logically be considered the default, at least in the eyes of most posters, when discussing Shadowrun. If a poster wants to discuss another edition, I really don't think it is that hard for them to actually come out and say as much in the post. The onus is totally on the original poster to avoid confusion as much as possible.

I guess it came down to good old how one interprets a post.
It seemed a bit "chirpy"

Reading the post I replied too ... didn't acknowledge that, it's only when I scroll back up you mention that you hate tags.

Anyhow ... It wasn't meant to bait you.


Regarding the 3 previous versions you mentioned in a post, sr3 will suffice for all previous versions since they all use similar stats and mechanics and people would make note of specifically mentioning sr2 or sr1.

That's the thing though. Why make a separate forum, and then still require only a subset of the people that would use that forum to indicate their edition preference? You end up with the same confusion and such as we have now, but with more clutter of an additional forum. People will get used to the tags, but really, as I said, the default should be SR4, being the current edition and all.

From a purely organizational standpoint, it is best to heave separate forums for all editions, including SR1, SR2, SR3, SR4, SR:TTCG , SR Duels, and DMZ - with a separate series of forums for each of the SNES, Genesis, Mega CD, and Microsoft video games, a general forum for MUSHes, MUCKs, and MUDs (with subforums for popular ones) - and a general Shadowrun forum.

The problem is traffic. In the last incarnation, general Shadowrun forum's traffic become terribly crappy after SR4 got some steam. A single cluttered forum is the best way to get the maximum amount of viewer and poster traffic to all posts.

Do not worry; it is already progressing in such a way.

Look at new topics since the merge that are not tagged. Some of them relate to SR in general, but the SR4 specific threads seem to use the SR4 tag when they feel like it. I predict in a bit more than a month (Damn, this is February) surprisingly small amount of time, only the SR3 tag will be showing up, as the forum will become default SR4.

Why the prediction? Disruptions like this about a properly conforming thread, yet no one is being an ass in any/all the omitted SR4 tagged threads. I must say, my contrary bearing has me longing to do so in all those threads, but my good sense was wanting to avoid this discussion and the ultimate reality of its conclusion.

My point is, with one large forum, how do I search ONLY in the third edition posts? You just can't do it. Then I have to add a whole lot of time finding posts addressing my issue, but then discarding them because they don't fit. Even having a third edition subforum would be nice. Maybe I just like to be difficult?

Anyway, sorry to have started this quasi-argument

I would say that the adept power does not stack because the adept power specifically states that it does not stack with magical or technological increases. Astral Projection grants you a +20 to Initiative, which I would classify as a magical increase because it comes from a magical ability. If the adept wanted to waive the +20 and instead gain their extra dice, I'd allow that.

Technically the +20 is not an increase. the power adds to reaction, whereas the +20 is in the reaction algorithm, and therefore clearly not a bonus.

Fygg--The bonus to reaction wouldn't apply as Reaction is not actually used in Astral Projection. Mental stats are reworked instead of using Physical ones. The +20 is to Initiative while Astrally projecting, not to reaction for purposes of determining initiative.

Physical Initiative = Reaction + D6s
Astral Initiative = Astral Reaction (Intelligence) + 20

As the power adds to Reaction, not Astral Reaction, the plus rating doesn't add. The (Rating) D6s as additional Initiative dice also doesn't figure into the calculation.

Oh wow, I completely forgot that the +20 is for initiative and not reaction. dur. But I still don't see why the power wouldn't work, as the +20 is still not a magical bonus, as anything on the astral plane not tied to a physical analog gets that "bonus"

For what it's worth, my group plays it as the +20 is a bonus from a magical ability (Astral Projection). As no awakened individual or entity can project, the ability is magical and thus does not stack with the Increased Reaction D6s.

Actually, as seen by the sample characters:
Astral Initiative = Astral Reaction + 20 + D6s

To me, the bonus to Reaction stated in the powers description applies to ALL Reaction - Physical or Astral. Also, since the Reaction bonus is magical in nature, it seems like it would still apply on a purely magical plane.

My point exactly. No matter how you put it, the +20 is just how the astral plane works. It's not from an ability, because anything that naturally occurs on the astral plane also gets that +20.