Woohoo postin few times today toget the feel back for SR!!!

So i am starting up a new fresh group that has never played SR before. I have been playing since 2nd ed but not for a long while. One of the issues i used to come across while gming was the rest of the group getting bored while the decker was doing his thing. Noramlly i try to keep the matrix a little amusing so the other players get to "see" a show at least but i always at the end no matter how "fun" it was feel like i short changed my others players by tossing a Disney scene into Lord of the rings. I noramlly only allow deckers to be npc contacts due to this reason. If i could get the whole group of players to play deckers then the sky is the limit that would be a great game to run.

ANyway before i start ranting how odes everyone else deal with the amtrix so it does not bog down or slow game play for other players?

I haven't really had the problem in SR4 since (a) everyone has a little bit of hacking potential and (b) most matirx "assaults" are about 3-5 dice rolls (depending on how many rolls the extended test to hack takes. Back in SR3, I usually just tried to make sure that for plot reasons, the decker couldn't do their thing until the time of the run. Maybe the system was only accessible from 6 to 8pm (or whenever) so the decker can control the system during the run except within that window. Alternatively, that the deck can only happen from on-site or from a specific bunker off-site (either works) so that the decker has to be able to work with the team (or the team has to split up to defend and prepare the decker).

The key thing for me regardless of edition is always make sure that the run cannot simply be performed by the decker while everyone else stays home. Not every bit of information can be found online. Nor should every system be set up to provide ready-made solutions to a talented matrix specialist. Make sure that people need to do some meat-body legwork because they need to steal some guard's ID card or they have to find the book of pass phrases because that information isn't online for security reasons. As long as everyone at the table has a time to shine, then most people will forgive a brief section of time focused on the decker.

Finally, don't be afraid to let one character make a few rolls and then transfer to a different scene for a few minutes, then back to the decker, etc. If your decker is such an attention whore that he/she won't let you pause for a moment to bring in the rest of the team, then you have an out-of-game issue to deal with before you solve the in-game problems, probably.

As few rolls as necessary. The player wants to break into a system, dig for files, encrypt/decrypt, draw silly pictures... one roll for the whole operation. Unless he is trying to break into Lofwyrs online diary. Then no roll and instant death. Keeps it fairly fast and simple.

Sometimes in still use the complete rules package, when it is really important to know the details. But even then I try to make it short. And provide the rest of the team with something to do. Random (or not so random) firefights (self study style) do the trick. But switching between two seperate "groups" is not something you can do with inexperieced players while you still try to understand the system. So best solution is minimize the necessery rolls to keep Matrix smooth and fast.

I've tried using NPC's for decking and running a concurrent Matrix invasion and simplified rules/rolls NPC's always seem a bit cliche, but if you stick to players asking the NPC to do XYZ, then roll a few die its cool, and you have a tool to redirect lost players.

Concurrent runs CAN work really well as long as the Deckers player knows his Matrix stuff and you trust him I used to draw up system architectures and seperate crib sheets for myself with TN's data defences etc ... and then he could just say going north to see whats there, system roll (I'd drop a TN) he'd ponder and I could go off and do a quick pass through the other players and back to matrix boy, even combat wasn't THAT bad, only had to pay real attention when it was decker vs decker really.

my preference personally is simplified rolls, I always underplayed the matrix content to little more than yes you CAN DNI into the machines but you don't have to, so if you are just snagging data tortoises are the way to go, physical intrusion like.

Although occasionally the players would get sneaky and arrange a hack before a run and they'd see if they could accomplish set events that triggered as they were running physically, I recall someone timing a lab to hermetically seal and flood once they'd pulled a guy out of it, although they were lucky they kept moving as quickly as they did because they were close to arriving at their destination after some sidetracking and finding their target for extraction in a sealed fishtank (pull out the lead scientist and kill the rest kinda job)

By the time I joined the group, deckers were NPC's. The GM before a session would work out what would happen on most decker runs.

In SR4, this is much less of an issue than it was in previous editions.

I remember playing in SR2. The decker might as well have been playing a different game -- specifically, a MUD.
"You're in a SAN.
There are exists east and south."

"Go east."

"You are in a data node.
There are files here. There is IC here."

"Attack IC"

Meanwhile, the rest of the team is doing cool stuff like fighting barghasts and ghouls. Or, more likely, the players have all left for pizza.

SR4 simplified matrix stuff to (in most cases) a single node, and a few dice rolls. Not only that, but there are at least some opportunities for hackers to use their skills against the same opponents as the rest of the team (especially drones, or the opposition's hacker who is trying to do the same) due to the wireless nature of the matrix. Things are much better.

As you're new to SR4, one thing I can recommend is making a cheat sheet for the matrix actions and the rolls. Because there are so many programs and such, if you aren't familiar with it it might take some time to look up what gets rolled with each program for each type of action every time.

All I can really suggest is, give it a try with the SR4 rules, and see if it is still a problem. It shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as SR2 was.

yeah I've always wanted to play in or run an SR game where being a decker was useful and fun for everyone. back in SR1 the guy who ran didn't really do much for anyone wanting to deck. I tried it with one character. fortunately he was also good at shooting and doing other things. (being a weretiger had its advantages) But basically it cmae down to "you look up such and such, roll... okay you succeeded in getting the data you need for the run."

the SR2 games I ran, I just had an npc decker they used, most times he would remote deck, on a few rare occasions (on site hard system w/o matrix hookups) they would take him along and have to cover him.

That is one thing that 4th has, the whole AR thing, maybe it can add more fun to it. I havent had the chance to play or run yet

It can, but only if players and GMs grasp the whole AR idea, what it's supposed to do and all that.

Which is somewhat difficult to do, IMO.

When you have a group of players that don't want anything to do with the matrix, except for one, and that one doesn't want anyone else to help him out in the matrix, AND doesn't want to take a hit in IPs by using AR, it gets you back to the same issue where everyone just has to wait...

Other peoples on my internets? I don'ts think so.

Once again, the problem is not AR, but the players. Look up AR on google, youtube and/or wikipedia. It might help to understand the concept. Everytime someone says AR would impede the work efficiency of scientists for example I truly wish to gouge my eyes out.

But I guess on this topic I might as well be talking to a brick wall.

Actually Malicant, I agree to what you've said so far

It is not so much my inability to understand AR and teh amtrix. I love running matrix runs they can be so "colorful". It is the how do i deal with entertaining the group as a whole (as a gm that is my job after all hehe entertainment) while the decker is in the matrix. In the past i ahve ran the decker through a WW2 horror lab, a cave system in a mountain, have had icon battles with changing icons. The ability to create whatever i want as a "visual" is truly amazing. The real issue stems from the other players being forced to wait and watch the decker do his thing.

Basically what i was asking everyone is how do you run your matrix i guess. DO you use it as a completely different "world"? DO you do the basic you ahcked the node and gained the info based on roles? etc...

I actually do away with the sculpted systems and metaphorical views and just go for the die rolling. Then again, I tend not to describe my world too much and leave it up to the player's imaginations to fill in the gaps. With the wireless world of SR4, there's just too many nodes that a player could hack to come up with a sculpted metaphor for each node. Plus, not having to describe those metaphors means that I can quickly move onto some die rolling and give the information to the player that they're seeking.

Never mind. Nothing to see here. Move along to the next post.

With my runs, everyone understands that what the decker does and that it takes time. He gets them maps and controls the security before their feet ever hit the ground.

Legwork stage:
I usually take hour intervals since that is the time the decker is getting into the system to set up his own account. I go around the table, asking everyone what they are doing. Most of the time my other players are calling up contacts. So the decker rolls his dice-contact-contact-contact, decker rolls his dice-contact...etc. Usually once the decker is in I'll spend a max of 15 minutes one-on-one with him while he gets the info he needs; however the other players are sitting there suggesting things he should look for so it is not a total one-on-one.

Go Time!:
One of two things usually happens. If the decker is at an off site location, he goes in the initiative order just like everyone else. If he is on site, he is going AR and goes with the initiative order (even though it is potentially slower)

When I play a decker, I understand that my time is in the legwork stage. When it is go time, I'm either rigging a drone providing a LMG for my guys as backup, or if I'm on site I'm in AR, shooting my pistol occasionally. Its because that I am such a time-hog at the beginning that my decker will never have more than 2 initiative passes or shoot anything bigger than an SMG; its not my time to shine an I understand that.

Most of these ideas are good in concept, but they just don't seem to hold water when actually playing. While I agree that with wireless and everyone having a way to participate in the matrix, there still seems to be a gap and most people don't want to hop into the matrix with the decker or even on their own.

The only time I see decking and physical actions work as SR4 attended is during combat...and that is only if the decker is using part of his actions in the matrix during combat turns. Otherwise, you have a decker monopolizing the groups time just has you have in every edition.

For my group, I try to resolve matrix and quickly as combat...describe a little, but not really flesh it out. If I can resolve matrix actions just as quickly, our games seem to run much smoother.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...l=matrix++rules

I like them. Forces a decker to move up with the troops because actions require line of sight, you can 'shoot' at the bad dudes, you are totally required because you give counterspelling cover, and actions are really fast.