Greetings all!
I've played in only 4 short sessions of Shadowrun (though I've played Star Wars Saga Edition and D&D 3.5 before, so I'm not totally new to RP), and I happen to be the group hacker/aspiring rigger.
The problem is, the GM and myself are both confused as to how signal range affects accessability. I have a Signal Rating of 5, which (I thought) let me mess with about anything within 4km. Then I read something about protecting your devices (mainly cyberlimbs) by having a low signal rating, but I'm afraid I don't understand. How does turning down the signal of something I'm trying to hack protect it?
I've obviously missed something, and would be much obliged if somebody could point me in the right direction.
Thank you.
Full Version: Newbie Confused About the Matrix
You use the lowest of the two signal ratings. So you can send out a broadcast to 4km, but if the target is only broadcasting out to 100m then you have to be withing 100m to do anything. Think like a cb. If your cb will send a signal out for 100 miles, then anyone withing 100 miles can hear you. Yet if someone wants to reply and they can only broadcast out to 5 miles. Then for the both of you to talk you would have to be within 5 miles of each other.
So in order to read that there was a node there, and get data transmission for hacking. You have to be within the lowest signals range. So if the signal rating on your target's cyberarm is set to 0, then you have to get within 3m of him to hack the limb.
So in order to read that there was a node there, and get data transmission for hacking. You have to be within the lowest signals range. So if the signal rating on your target's cyberarm is set to 0, then you have to get within 3m of him to hack the limb.
Your signal range is the range at which you can send high density signals. However to do most really hacking you'll need to also receive high density signals from the computer you are trying to interface with. It's called a "handshake."
-Frank
-Frank
I see.
So is there no way I can hack through the Matrix? Hop nodes or something like that?
Just because my hacker's not really a "hands on" kind of guy, just because I'm fairly sure I'll die if anybody finds my body.
So is there no way I can hack through the Matrix? Hop nodes or something like that?
Just because my hacker's not really a "hands on" kind of guy, just because I'm fairly sure I'll die if anybody finds my body.
There is a technique available in Shadowrun Matrix Defense called "dropout" where if you don't want to get hacked you just don't get hacked. Hackers can't just sit in their homes and haxxor things while the rest of the team runs around and does stuff because in most cases you have to physically compromise some device in a targeted network before you can get any real hacking done.
All the stuff about hacking wirelessly is basically a joke unless and until you've actually gotten your hands on an actual device that is already hooked up to their stuff, because generally the network administrator can simply turn off your ability to hack in cold from a distance.
That being said, you can do much the same thing to prevent yourself from getting hurt by the Matrix. Just log in with AR. Don't pass out and leave your body drooling in a corner while you hack, just do it in windowed mode while walking around. It's much safer and not much different in actual effect.
-Frank
All the stuff about hacking wirelessly is basically a joke unless and until you've actually gotten your hands on an actual device that is already hooked up to their stuff, because generally the network administrator can simply turn off your ability to hack in cold from a distance.
That being said, you can do much the same thing to prevent yourself from getting hurt by the Matrix. Just log in with AR. Don't pass out and leave your body drooling in a corner while you hack, just do it in windowed mode while walking around. It's much safer and not much different in actual effect.
-Frank
QUOTE (KurenaiYami @ Feb 10 2008, 02:24 PM) 
I see.
So is there no way I can hack through the Matrix? Hop nodes or something like that?
Just because my hacker's not really a "hands on" kind of guy, just because I'm fairly sure I'll die if anybody finds my body.
So is there no way I can hack through the Matrix? Hop nodes or something like that?
Just because my hacker's not really a "hands on" kind of guy, just because I'm fairly sure I'll die if anybody finds my body.
You can as long as the node in question is connected to the matrix. And people are not going to do that with cyberlimbs, but they sure might with a public node.
Even so, secure installations are likely to have their security node off the matrix, which means you might have to get dirty anyway and go in with a bunch of gun-toting magic-wielding manaics.. that is your runner team
You can connect to a node that's outside your (or its) signal range by hopping from nodes to nodes. Commlinks are routers, and I expect a lot of nodes also are. This way, if the node you want to access is close enough to a routing node which is also close enough to another routing node, etc. all the way to you, then you can access it.
But if there's no way leading to that node, you'll have to go there physically and either hack in AR mode or have your teammates cover you as you go VR.
But if there's no way leading to that node, you'll have to go there physically and either hack in AR mode or have your teammates cover you as you go VR.
Alright, I think I'm starting to get it, but I have one more question concerning my drones:
Rigging would obviously require the 'handshake,' but what of sending commands? Can I do this one way?
This will help me figure out if what happened in the last session was possible:
We were assassinating 3 higher ups in a ninja clan (apparently one of our team is a ninja, and his dad had a rivalry going with another clan). The Mage put up a Rating 10 Area Jammer. My Commlink has signal 5 and ECCM 6, so I believe that leaves me unaffected (correct me if I'm wrong). The drones, on the other hand (three Steel Lynx models, 1 with a Panther XXL Assault Cannon...despite my not wanting it...and the fact that it shouldn't be able to carry it...) only had whatever they get stock.
Would I be able to send these drones commands?
Rigging would obviously require the 'handshake,' but what of sending commands? Can I do this one way?
This will help me figure out if what happened in the last session was possible:
We were assassinating 3 higher ups in a ninja clan (apparently one of our team is a ninja, and his dad had a rivalry going with another clan). The Mage put up a Rating 10 Area Jammer. My Commlink has signal 5 and ECCM 6, so I believe that leaves me unaffected (correct me if I'm wrong). The drones, on the other hand (three Steel Lynx models, 1 with a Panther XXL Assault Cannon...despite my not wanting it...and the fact that it shouldn't be able to carry it...) only had whatever they get stock.
Would I be able to send these drones commands?
So long as your drones are operating on their own autopilot you can just send them commands so long as they are in signal range. You won't get real time video feeds or anything from them, but you can tell them exactly where to go and send them updates on who is and is not a valid target for shooting in the face.
If you have simpler commands like "go to rendevoux point A" or "shut down" then you can do it from even farther away (although the actual rules for sending low density signals aren't actually in the book and you have to hand wave it).
In your example situation you would indeed be able to send commands (but not receive commands). And yes, I know that's backwards, but whatever.
-Frank
If you have simpler commands like "go to rendevoux point A" or "shut down" then you can do it from even farther away (although the actual rules for sending low density signals aren't actually in the book and you have to hand wave it).
In your example situation you would indeed be able to send commands (but not receive commands). And yes, I know that's backwards, but whatever.
-Frank
Thanks guys! You've been very helpful!
as drones are just comlinks in a can (im going to never hear the end of it but thats my take on them) you could probably bounce the signal via the matrix just as a hacker would for getting onto a distant node.
also note that i dont care about setting up a bounce chain for general matrix use. only if a node (comlink, drone, whatever) have been set up so as to only talk to a specific list of other nodes would one have to worry about first going to the node that talks to the matix in general and then go onto the picky one from there.
also note that i dont care about setting up a bounce chain for general matrix use. only if a node (comlink, drone, whatever) have been set up so as to only talk to a specific list of other nodes would one have to worry about first going to the node that talks to the matix in general and then go onto the picky one from there.
Well, according to the FAQ, such chains don't work.
I think they made that choice to avoid endless chains, both for PCs and the opposition, leading to unhackable systems or too long hacking time.
I think they made that choice to avoid endless chains, both for PCs and the opposition, leading to unhackable systems or too long hacking time.
And add in a little more confusion...
With arsenal we now have the "Retrans Unit" modification to drones and vehicles. These allow the bouncing of signals through them. So you're not supposed to do it from everyday devices, unless your actually operating from that device. Since this retrans unit is 4,000
not very many things will have them.
In general cities will have repeaters spaced so that you can have continual uplinks to everywhere. But when you get into extraterritorial they might have limited signals since they aren't worried about the public at large needing access.
Here's what I'm doing to have some fun...
Bust-A-Move doll
Modifications
--Gecko Tips
--Retrans Unit
--ECM rating 6
--Signal Rating 6
Software
--Pilot Rating 3
--ECCM Rating 3 (I've only upped the pilot to 3 so far
)
--Electronic Warfare Rating 3
Sensors
--Camera w/ Rating 6 Vision/Audio enhancements
This is my infiltration hack unit and jammer. Gecko tips will allow him to cling to an ally, or scale walls and infiltrate, using his retrans unit he has a 4 km range, that I can connect to him from (which I'll probably be using a satellite uplink since I'm a technomancer with only 3 signal).
For larger drones or even vehicles you can actually outfit the drone with a satellite uplink, and retrans unit so then you can reach it from a 100 km range.
With arsenal we now have the "Retrans Unit" modification to drones and vehicles. These allow the bouncing of signals through them. So you're not supposed to do it from everyday devices, unless your actually operating from that device. Since this retrans unit is 4,000
not very many things will have them.In general cities will have repeaters spaced so that you can have continual uplinks to everywhere. But when you get into extraterritorial they might have limited signals since they aren't worried about the public at large needing access.
Here's what I'm doing to have some fun...
Bust-A-Move doll
Modifications
--Gecko Tips
--Retrans Unit
--ECM rating 6
--Signal Rating 6
Software
--Pilot Rating 3
--ECCM Rating 3 (I've only upped the pilot to 3 so far
)--Electronic Warfare Rating 3
Sensors
--Camera w/ Rating 6 Vision/Audio enhancements
This is my infiltration hack unit and jammer. Gecko tips will allow him to cling to an ally, or scale walls and infiltrate, using his retrans unit he has a 4 km range, that I can connect to him from (which I'll probably be using a satellite uplink since I'm a technomancer with only 3 signal).
For larger drones or even vehicles you can actually outfit the drone with a satellite uplink, and retrans unit so then you can reach it from a 100 km range.
QUOTE (Blade @ Feb 11 2008, 09:02 PM)
Well, according to the FAQ, such chains don't work.
I think they made that choice to avoid endless chains, both for PCs and the opposition, leading to unhackable systems or too long hacking time.
I think they made that choice to avoid endless chains, both for PCs and the opposition, leading to unhackable systems or too long hacking time.
heh, faq be damned i say
and part are you refering to specifically? the one about how subscription lists work?
No the part specifically about daisy-chaining commlinks:
But of course, you're free to ignore it or house-rule something. Just be careful about having an explanation as to why the hacker doesn't have to go through 300 nodes to get highly sensitive data.
QUOTE ("The FAQ")
What does subscribing/slaving a device mean, in terms of access/hacking? If a device is subscribed to someone else's commlink, can you hack/spoof that device directly, or do you need to hack the commlink first? If a group of devices were subscribed in a daisy-chain together, could you hack the last device directly, or would you need to hack them all in successive order?
The act of subscribing is merely the act of creating and maintaining a connection between two nodes. Subscribing does not automatically grant access to a node (unless it happens to be a public all-access node) -- that is the purview of accounts. Subscribing is essentially the "handshake" that occurs between two nodes, a protocol check and very basic form of authentication so that each node knows it's connecting with the right other node.
Slaving isn't really covered in the basic rules (you'll see more about this in Unwired), but it essentially counts as instructing one node to only communicate and take orders from another node (or nodes). The instruction to slave a node can only come from someone with admin privileges.
In the basic rules, subscribing and slaving have no effect on hacking or spoofing commands. The act of hacking and/or spoofing is presumed to incorporate an impersonation of a legitimate connection (that's why you need a successful Matrix Perception Test before you can spoof a command). You will likely see an advanced/optional rule in Unwired that makes hacking/spoofing a slaved node trickier.
This means that even if multiple nodes are daisy-chained together, each subscribed or slaved to the next, you don't need to hack/spoof them all in order to hack/spoof the last one -- you can go straight to the last node and attempt to hack/spoof it.
Note that if a node that has other nodes slaved to it (we'll call this the master node) is hacked, then the hacker has open access to the slaved nodes as well (i.e., he does not need to hack them).
The act of subscribing is merely the act of creating and maintaining a connection between two nodes. Subscribing does not automatically grant access to a node (unless it happens to be a public all-access node) -- that is the purview of accounts. Subscribing is essentially the "handshake" that occurs between two nodes, a protocol check and very basic form of authentication so that each node knows it's connecting with the right other node.
Slaving isn't really covered in the basic rules (you'll see more about this in Unwired), but it essentially counts as instructing one node to only communicate and take orders from another node (or nodes). The instruction to slave a node can only come from someone with admin privileges.
In the basic rules, subscribing and slaving have no effect on hacking or spoofing commands. The act of hacking and/or spoofing is presumed to incorporate an impersonation of a legitimate connection (that's why you need a successful Matrix Perception Test before you can spoof a command). You will likely see an advanced/optional rule in Unwired that makes hacking/spoofing a slaved node trickier.
This means that even if multiple nodes are daisy-chained together, each subscribed or slaved to the next, you don't need to hack/spoof them all in order to hack/spoof the last one -- you can go straight to the last node and attempt to hack/spoof it.
Note that if a node that has other nodes slaved to it (we'll call this the master node) is hacked, then the hacker has open access to the slaved nodes as well (i.e., he does not need to hack them).
But of course, you're free to ignore it or house-rule something. Just be careful about having an explanation as to why the hacker doesn't have to go through 300 nodes to get highly sensitive data.
meh, i dont think i would ever be as mean as setting up 300+ nodes in a chain just to give the hacker something to work with.
that would result in the rest of the group going out for pizza while things got resolved...
but the old chokepoint trick is a SR classic, and im sure that unwired will bring to the table rules for exactly that kind of setup, basically a node thats stuffed to the brim with ice and other high rating defenses.
and to add a little bit to the overall thread. i just recalled that real life wifi have two modes. one is the most often used one, where the node hooks onto a access point (more often then not built into a router these days) and goes onto the matrix in general from there.
but another is ad-hoc mode, where one wifi device is put into a AP like mode, and other devices can then hook up to it. nice for connecting two laptops together without having a cable handy and so on.
the last one is a nice equivalent to a rigger running his drones without the matrix "present". and it can also explain the retrans unit as a device with two wifi chips, so that it can run two ad-hoc setups at the same time.
that would result in the rest of the group going out for pizza while things got resolved...
but the old chokepoint trick is a SR classic, and im sure that unwired will bring to the table rules for exactly that kind of setup, basically a node thats stuffed to the brim with ice and other high rating defenses.
and to add a little bit to the overall thread. i just recalled that real life wifi have two modes. one is the most often used one, where the node hooks onto a access point (more often then not built into a router these days) and goes onto the matrix in general from there.
but another is ad-hoc mode, where one wifi device is put into a AP like mode, and other devices can then hook up to it. nice for connecting two laptops together without having a cable handy and so on.
the last one is a nice equivalent to a rigger running his drones without the matrix "present". and it can also explain the retrans unit as a device with two wifi chips, so that it can run two ad-hoc setups at the same time.
QUOTE (Blade @ Feb 12 2008, 07:23 AM)
No the part specifically about daisy-chaining commlinks:
But of course, you're free to ignore it or house-rule something. Just be careful about having an explanation as to why the hacker doesn't have to go through 300 nodes to get highly sensitive data.
But of course, you're free to ignore it or house-rule something. Just be careful about having an explanation as to why the hacker doesn't have to go through 300 nodes to get highly sensitive data.
That was talking about daisy chaining subscribed commlinks, which is not exactly what people are referring to here. The ability to use a commlink as a "router" and hope from node to node is not talking about subscriptions
Without the Retrans Unit or Public Use Repeaters, I have a theory on how this could work to hop between nodes.
You would have to first hack into the one you would hop through, then issue commands to that commlink to connect to the next one. Window in a Window... Other than the extra hacking on the middle man commlink/vehicle you have one other result. Your program ratings and response are now limited by this middle mans commlink, since you are ordering his commlink to establish the connection for you. Voila chokepoint for a corporation if you wanted it on your matrix run. That and this system we're using as a router probably isn't under your hackers control, and might wander off or drive away breaking your signal as it drops out of range.
The repeaters/retrans units though just bounce the signal, like amplifiers, they don't actually affect your response and likewise your programs. If there's a rating 6 Retrans unit on the edge of your range, you're good to go for another 4 kilometers.
You would have to first hack into the one you would hop through, then issue commands to that commlink to connect to the next one. Window in a Window... Other than the extra hacking on the middle man commlink/vehicle you have one other result. Your program ratings and response are now limited by this middle mans commlink, since you are ordering his commlink to establish the connection for you. Voila chokepoint for a corporation if you wanted it on your matrix run. That and this system we're using as a router probably isn't under your hackers control, and might wander off or drive away breaking your signal as it drops out of range.
The repeaters/retrans units though just bounce the signal, like amplifiers, they don't actually affect your response and likewise your programs. If there's a rating 6 Retrans unit on the edge of your range, you're good to go for another 4 kilometers.
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