I suppose the difficulty I have Groking the SR4 setup is in many ways the commlink itself.
I am attempting to clear this out of my head and get it straight as well as have others beat the mechanics into my head.

SR3: No Hub, all systems standalone. No wireless, nothing can be hacked.
Implanted smartlink
Wired reflexes
Retractable Spur
Datajack
Chipjack


SR4: Possibility of connection but not required
Implanted smartlink
Wired reflexes
Retractable Spur
Datajack


All the above can be standalone but they can also all run through the commlink, if I want to share data with someone else. But it isnt required, ala I dont have to connect my spur to my comm to activate it, but If I wanted too it could be a second method of activation, as well as a 'monitor' for my teamates or hackers (yay).

Trying to lay out all the scenarios

1. However, with a fully stand alone system and no commlink I cannot experience AR or VR.

2. With a fully standalone system and a commlink without a sim module, I still cannot experience AR or VR (as per p.209 left column 6th paragraph and p.228 right column 3rd paragraph.) But I can make phone calls, check the matrix and Not get in trouble by the law for lack of ID.

3. With a fully standalone system and a commlink without a sim module but with simrig or trode net or datajack, I cannot experience AR or VR. (as per p.209 left column 6th paragraph and p.228 right column 3rd paragraph.) But can experience "Direct Input" BTLs.

4. With a fully standalone system and a commlink with a sim module and simrig or trode net or datajack, I can experience AR or VR and "DreamDeck" BTLs , as well as Knowsofts and Linguasofts.

Finally:

5. a fully connected wireless cyberware system with a commlink + sim module + simrig/trodenet/datajack, I can do it all. Including get AR bonus with teamates. All I have to worry about is getting hacked.

Though I suppose the commlink serves as the master gateway (which is more difficult to hack) for the cyberware instead of attempting a direct hack on a standalone cybersystem (whish should be easier to hack?). Then again if everything is skin linked or old school fiberwire connected then no worry there.

Again, I do believe the commlink is the culprit for my difficulties.

You don't need a sim module for AR. It's just funny pictures on your glasses.

Malicant,
I just talked that through to myself as well.
Commlink>imagelink glasses> AR glove.

However, why does p.209 say "The easiest and most common way to get your AR fix, though, is through simsense. You need a sim module...blah blah blah Simrig, trode net or datajack."

raxle fraggle mixle fek...




[rant] someone needs to learn how to write a fuckin' book, damned thing is written by some ADD knothead... FEK! [/rant]

Simrigs include a sim module (SR4, pg 318)

You can use a sim module to experience AR, but you don't need it.

Think of it this was. Everyone has a commlink, everyone accesses AR. But not everyone has a sim module. Those have to be bought extra, for even better AR and to get into VR at all.

Does that help at all?

Ya, clear.

I had it clear after I skimmed the sections and lost it when I actually read them. Go figure...

Thanks all.

Me, I'm just going to say all commlinks have sim modules by default and at no extra cost, and that the most common interface is a discreet set of 'trodes, also included in the price.

My main book gives two prices for a cybercomlink: 2000+ for standard, 5000+ for hot-sim. So a comlink was at some point really supposed to come with a SimModule. As that price is already a nice multiplier of 20 compared to external SimModules, the idea to demand another implant on top seems... exzessive.

I think internal SimModules exist for those who do not want to hardwire themselves into a single comlink, but also do not want to carry a SimModule along.

Wouldn't you think that the implanted Commlink would HAVE to come with a Sim Module? After all, the implanted Commlink shouldn't suddenly gain the ability to output information in the form the brain would understand..if it could do that, then you wouldn't have the need of the sim module in a non-implanted commlink, since the Commlink is obviously able to convert the data itself. Thus an implanted commlink would have to have the sim module installed in order to communicate with the brain and to transmit usable information.

Or is it much too early and I'm way off track?

The implanted comlink could rely on cybereyes and cyberears for Output of most of the data, and on DNI for getting Input from your brain. Still, I´m asking how I can buy a hot comlink if there is no VR capability? Right, does not make sense.

Fortunately, I have one of the books saying internal Comlinks come with SimModule. And there is nothing -except what several of you mischievous lot are claiming- that it could be different. LALALA, I can´t hear you!

All implanted cyberware of any kind gets DNI for free. You can use DNI to interact with the implanted commlink. To gain the AR and VR bonuses you will still need to get the extras, but there's no problem working with an implanted commlink directly.

Cyber commlinks come with a Sim Module (pg 228 of main rule book).

Now I want to know if anyone else thought of this:

A Fairlight cyber commlink costs 10000 ... but a Meta Link cyber commlink with response increased to 5 and signal increased to 5 cost only 7100 . Cheesy or what?

The way I got this is that you can buy increases to a commlink and an implanted version only costs 2000 more.

thats talking about if you want the "full" experience for what is available in AR. they mention various degrees, such as limited sim for AR and the basic AR mentioned on the smae page.


pg 318 mentions full sim which, for obvious reason isn't normally used in AR


Ryu, the prices you mention are the prices for a cyber simmodule, not for a commlink, the commlink prices are above that in the list. You have to consider the reason for the price difference is pretty simple. External hardware gets cheaper all the time. You can get a small cd player now for about $25 but when I bought my first sony discman it was $145 or so. Part of the price is, it has to be shrunk down really small to fit that low .2 essence cost. Part of the cost is also the installation surgery. Cutting you open and attaching sensative cyber into your system and sewing you back up w/o causing infection and other misshaps should realistically cost more than Joe Schmoe the store clerk handing you a small blisterpack with a sim module in it. Also if you look at capacity both sim mods and commlinks capacity are listed in brackets, which means they are able to be placed inside of some other cyberware but cannot "hold" anything else themselves.

atleast that is what I get from rereading all of these things.

hmm
I guess that makes sense. Sometimes its hard to tell what works correctly with what and what text is just stuff that was changed and left behind after being altered

okay my pdf version (1st printing) agrees with you


my actual hardcopy of the book (3rd printing) says


Now simrigs are mentioned under bodyware (pg. 334) for 5k . Now this of course begs the question, how much is a sim rig with a "hot" sim mod in it, since it's safe to assume the one listed here is a "cold" sim module. The difference in cost between the implanted hot and cold modules is 3k . would then the hot sim rig be 8k ?

That's how I took it.

i could have sworn i read the exact same thread a year or more ago, when the second print of SR4 came out...

it's quite possible
someone might consider making a sticky FAQ post with links to relevant rules questions, as searches don't always cut it when looking for prior posts

Since it is relevant to the discussion, I figured I would add this recent little tidbit that appeared in another thread ...