Augmentations presents the qualities Genecrafted (5BP) and Genetic Heritage (10BP), allowing you to create a character who is either genetically engineered, has inherited genemods from his parents or even both.
Even though this might fluffwise be a nice option for some characters, it takes some twinking to make the minor benefits of these qualities amortize the BP you have to sink in them.

In fact, one would have to build a character starting with 125.000 worth of geneware to reach the point of break even when taking the Genecrafted quality.
Yes, i know there's some good and useful geneware, but enough to blow half of your possible starting money for it until a quality starts to pay off?

And i don't even want to talk about Genetic Heritage; one geneware mod for free, whoa.
And then, you just have to sink a quarter million into transgenics (which means excluding most of the interesting geneware options) to have gained more than just some character fluff from a 10 BP quality.
Not to speak of combining the two.


However, to come to the reason for starting this thread, there's a loophole here, a possibility that in fact, if widely applied, could render at least the Genecrafted quality a complete no-brainer for all aspiring biosams.

See, Augmentation p. 93 mentions that it is possible to replicate the effects of most bioware implants as transgenic modifications...however, it does not state which implants exactly fall under this category.

Imagine saving 20% off your new lvl II synaptic accelerator...
Or even getting it for free (well, actually for 10 BP, which saves you 6 badly-needed points and does not eat up almost two thirds of your possible starting money), since you inherited it from mom and pop biosam.
Or wait, it isn't gear anymore, why apply the availability at all?
Lvl. III please, it runs in the family.

You see where this leads.
Is there any FAQ regarding this issue?
Anything beyond a lame "GMs decision wether these options completely suck or totally shift/derail the way sam builds are conceptualized" ?

If there isn't, how would you handle this issue?
Leaving cultured bioware out of the available options for transgenic mods would prohibit the cheesiest uses of this, i think.
Any other suggestions?

Transgenic Modifications are basically animal features, or Bioware that imitates animal features.

I'm with Fortune here. The two qualities you mention basically allow a 20% cost reduction for genetic modifications, which include those enhancements listed in Augmentation, and maybe some Transgenic Modificaitons from Bioware. Since they reference page 61 in the information about Transgenic Modifications, I take it to mean that the Biosculpting bioware is definitely allowed, and I would allow the Cosmetic Bioware as well. I think this is in keeping with the following quote:

What about transgenics-based bioware such as spidersilk glands, sharkskin, gecko hands and so on?
Including those among possible options would increase the use of the qualities without resulting in the no-brainer effect a general allowance might create.

That's FAQ material IMO. But I would surely not allow many biomods under that umbrella...

BTW, my group and me are currently generating chars using Serbitar karma creation rules; there the cost of money is 3000Y to 1 bp, so the quality makes more sense.

Cheers

Max

I wouldn't allow it because those bioware modifications have a specific mechanical change and thus they aren't simply cosmetic. The Transgenic Modifications in Aug are only for cosmetic changes, anything else "requires much more profound metabolic alterations" (p. 93, Aug). A GM could allow it if they want to, but I'd charge a lot more and I'd consider it an R&D style modification and perhaps subject the character to a negative quality with respect to the modification (with their permission, of course).

Page 93 specifically references page 61 in this section:



Page 61 has the following three topics:
[*]Bioware Grades
[*]Second-hand Bioware
[*]Biosculpting

It's pretty clear that only one of those is applicable to transgenics (which have no grade.) So it would seem that only biosculpting procedures are being referenced here.

So... Uh.. I guess you could pay 10 bp to have the equivalent of "human looking" instead of 5 points, by having it be a transgenic metatype reassignment? (I guess you could also have "ork looking" and "elf looking" for 10 points instead now?)

I would have expected that it would be possible to reproduce a wider aray of bioware effects using genetics, but what you have quoted here is quite obvious.

No, no, no, if you want to have a genegineered Dark Angel-like supersoldier character that is stuffed to gills with geneware and bioware goodness, Genetic Heritage and trying to fit vanilla bioware into the transgenic enhancements concept isn't really the way to go, despite the fluff. Instead, you have to buy both the Genecrafted (5 bp) and the Type 0 System (30 bp) Qualities, buy a truckload of geneware and bioware, and state in the background that every bio-ware and gene-ware modification you got at character creation was engineered in your genes before you were conceived and grew with you in the vat, never came by post-birth surgery or treatment. There's really nothing in the rules contrary to this approach. I'd bargain inability to get cyberware implanted, for waiving of the Availability limits on bioware and geneware, for such a character.

Being born as an heavily genemodified transgenic metahuman from an artificial womb and being raised as a talking guinea pig in a lab can justify all kinds of interesting biological and psychological foibles, well-represented by Negative Qualities like Addiction (custom drugs or diet), Allergy, Biosystem Overstress, Cyberpsychosis, Delusion, Emotion Leak, Hallucination, Implant-Induced Immune Deficiency, Mania/Phobia, Multiple Personality Disorder, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Sensitive Neural Structure, Sensitive System (if the above house rule isn't allowed), Uncouth (being raised in a laboratory), Uneducated (ditto), Weak Immune System.

Good luck with this character concept, it is one I'm much fond of. It needs at least 500 BP for statisfactory realization, although. Few corps would take the effort of developing such a cutting-edge bio-/gene-ware project like this if it weren't to build a high-powered, elite operative. Oh, yes, you also have to assume that they would want to keep a tight leash and a get a nice return from theri "investment", so you either are an elite operative of the corp that created you, or you successfully escaped in the shadows, and they keep some kind of manhunt active on you.

Sounds like the way to go.



I'd add Genefreak to the mix, too.




It's not an actual character concept, i was just unsure how the rules on genecrafting work out and wanted some feedback.
Since i have always spent more time GMing than being a player, any genecrafted characters i'll stat out in the future are more likely to wind up as NPCs, anyway.

However, a "failed experiment" type character might well be possible with 400 BP, and would also be less likely to be searched by his corp.

Uneducated and uncouth would seem a bit strange for an elite corp operative. If the corp simply wants some dumb firepower, drones or bound spirits would do as well. An elite operative needs education and socialisation, IMHO.

Good point. Let's discard Uncouth and Uneducated from the list of suggested Negative Qualities. I still think such a character could well have some basic difficulties in social skills from being raised as a thinking, talking guinea pig, which Uncouth would have represented well, but I suppose such problems can be represented adequately by Cyberpsychosis, too.



One is glad to be of service.




Uhm, no, I'd really advice against it, for the same reasons Fuchs above advised against Uneducated and Uncouth. Having more subtle biochemical and physiological genetic defects, as represented by Negative Qualities like Addiction, Allergy, or the mental disorder Qualities is one thing, and may well be an acceptable compromise for the crerators of the genetic template. But Genefreak would make the transgenic supersoldier always stick out like a sore thumb, and it would be a failure for any kind of subtle shadowrun. I think they would discard that kind of template. If they wanted that kind of blatancy, they could just pick up any troll and turn it into a cyberzombie or cyborg.




Well, if you really really wish. IMNSHO, however, the character concept makes much more sense at 500 BP. The template is still somewhat imperfect and buggy if you give it at least a couple of the suggested Negative Qualities, so this may help justify the creator corp give up the chase after a while, if you don't want to include an ongoing "fugitive" subplot. But really, it would make no sense for a corp even to try an ambitious project like this if they wouldn't stuff the genetic template with bioware and geneware abundant enough to push it well into the high-powered, elite-operative range. Besides, 500 BP is very good but not unbeatable in the shadows, it is in the upper fringe of the shadowrunners population distribution. And it's wholly specialized in biological augmentation, it gets little or no cyberware or magic. If you wish a really overwhelming superhuman template that the corp would never ever give up for searching, you should think in terms of 600+ BP.

Of course, this advice of mine may well be biased from my notorious preference for high-powered gaming. I definitely prefer to game in terms of high-powered elite runner operatives, not neophyte runners a rung above the street gang, so I would always start PCs at 500 BP anyway.

How high-powered a game is depends on the campaign world, not just the stats of the runners. You can easily take the runner you have, and simply adjust the world so he/she's elite no matter the actual stats.

On a general note, yes, you're quite right. OTOH, this specific superhero-like character type requires to have a very large amount of bioware and geneware which is impressive both in absolute terms and relatively to the power level of the setting, pretty much all of which is owned at birth, not acquired later in play. Therefore it requires a rather generous, definitely above-average BP amount to be spent at character creation on bioware and geneware.

...I'm currently running a "genebrat" character with the Genetic Heritage quality. Her "free" Alteration was Genetic Optimisation Logic (being that she is a Matrix Specialist and we are using the Logic + Skill rules for matrix tests). She also has the PuSHeD Transgenic Protein Exchange treatment. on top of this she has Cerebral boosting giving her a pretty nasty DP base for any technical or logic linked skill.

Genetic Optimisation also stacks with the Exceptional Attribute quality. Furthermore it can be taken for more than a single attribute. So, basically for 45,000 , .2 essence (bioware scale), and 2 months downtime per attribute, a character can have more than one "exceptional" attribute and possibly one über-exceptional attribute if she also has the Exceptional quality. This is also a way that metas with attribute cap reductions can overcome them to a limited degree.

The bonuses to skill pools from Transgenic Protein Exchange treatments such as (PuSHeD and Neo-EPO) are also considered Dice Pool modifiers.

Transhumanism...gotta love it.

Of course, it does let you get considerably more than 250k worth of gear at character generation, if you invest in genetic modification. Furthermore, Genetic Heritage reduces the cost of all future genetic modification as well, not just those at character generation.

DS

Who says they actually wanted it?

BTW, i disagree on the notion that genecrafted would most likely be Dark Angel/Agent 47-style specops monsters.
The flavour text in Augmentation reads as if genetweaking your kids is becoming the way to go among high-ranking corp personnel.
In fact, there's tons of mods perfectly suited for a business career- genetic optimization, puSHeD, and of course, if possible, genetic equivalents of cerebral booster, tailored pheromones, sleep regulator etc. pp.
Ware increasing their offspring's physical performance might also be desirable for many parents, ranging from muscle toner/augmentation and a syntharcadium to enhanced articulation.
Not to mention the needs of families living and working in extreme environments such as underwater arcologies, orbital stations or nuclear wastelands.

Of course, genecrafted corp soldiers are also a possibility, but Augmentation suggests that there is a constantly growing number of genetically altered metahumans outside of this field.

Does "would be willing to deem it an acceptable flaw, or not" sound better ?



Well, you're right that supersoldiers are not the only likely application of corp genegineering and "super-brats" with intellectual augmentation would be the other most typical application of human genecrafting. That's right. As a matter of fact, supersoldiers and super-smarts, in that order, would also be the most likely type of heavily genecrafted individuals that would show up in the shadows. Not to mention, if your budget is decent enough, nothing stops you from going for a genetic template that combines physical and intellectual augmentations. It's only that in the shadows, you are much more likely to find "monster" genecrafted people with heavy amounts of "utilitarian" biological augmentations (either physical, mental, or both) than "beautiful" people with stacks of cosmetic bio-/gene-ware, or otherwise ordinary (meta)humans with just an inherited genefix or two.

Yes, and another very nifty property of Genetic Optimization is that it pushes forward the boundary of your Natural Attributes, so you are allowed to reap full effect from your stacking 'ware augmentations and become the Human Troll



Say it strong and loud, pal