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Pendaric
So this is another use for the already useful Masking meta magic, nameliy the ability to sync your aura with a ward and therefore bypass it with out astral combat. I am neutral to the fact this was included but after all the effort to write this up in the wards section of MitS, why give it a rules mechanic that makes it pointless?
It is the same as grey and black IC deck burning abilities, so NERFed as to be pointless!
So here's the refresher:

The initiate rolls twice their initiate grade in dice vs a TN equal to the force of the barrier.
The barrier rolls it force in dice against a TN equal to the initiates grade.

Now how difficult is it to see that you need buckets load of karma to be a rank four or five initiate to have a hope of beating a force four ward. When a basic out of the box magician can put up a force six ward easily!
Take a iniate grade 2 vs a force 4 ward. Thats four dice vs TN 4 (about two hits) against four dice vs TN 2 or (about four hits.)

Now I think the printing missed the sentance that says:
The barrier rolls against a TN equal to double the initiates grade.
Then a rating 3 initiate has a 50% chance of bypassing a force six ward. Factor in karma and you get more than reasonalbe odds of success. However at this power level the PC would be up against more than only a basic lvl six ward but thats a different issue.

Has anyone seen this chewy inconsistency? I know this is minor and SR4 has fixed these but it got to me damnit.
Moon-Hawk
Two things: First, bypassing a ward isn't normally possible at all, so the fact that a high-grade initiate can mask through a low-force ward is nice. If it were easy, then wards would be pointless. It's supposed to be impossible, this is just making sure a great dragon isn't thwarted by a weak ward. (sure, he could bust it down, but he wants to be sneaky)
Second, the mage can use karma, the ward can't, that evens things a bit.

In some ways, it's more generous than in SR4. In SR3 at least you can try. In SR4 you have to see the ward creator's aura, who is difficult to find at best or, at worst, inside the damn ward.
Pendaric
But your looking at this in isolation, an astract not conected to a realistic game world. The amount of Karma on a NPC or PC character to allow this to even factor in the game makes the possibility worthless. While to compared the power of aura masking for free spirits masking becomes even more underpowered. In short it is a waste of space in the book if it fails to add to the game world.

My beef is why NERF something to the point of making it worthless? Why include something that does not actually add to the game? It's inefficent and annoying.
Yes, barriers are there to stop PC's but if that is the point way include another method of bypassing them at all? Why include rules for traveling through the ground? Why create a rule that does not work period?
Like the 'scary' grey IC that could not hope to burn a deck on its best day in its best year. Why have a rule mechanic that will only work long after the character has to be retired?
My current game has been running for four years and masking was the first meta magic the magician got. No brainer as to why. But with over a hundred karma on the sheet the PC could not hope to bypass a force four ward! Come on! Waste of print.
GryMor
QUOTE (Pendaric @ Feb 28 2008, 03:36 PM) *
My beef is why NERF something to the point of making it worthless? Why include something that does not actually add to the game? It's inefficent and annoying.


Uhm, it's not worthless, and it's not exactly hard, just specialised. Take a grade 3 initiate (27 karma, after discounts) with 6 edge. She gets 12 dice for an expected 4+ hits, against a force 4 ward (respectable for a contracted ward), can only expect 1-2 hits, and needs 3. Congratulations, you've just done the impossible. With a couple more initiate grades, you won't even need the Edge. Heck, even without edge, you have a good chance of slipping past any ward with a force equal to or less than your initiate grade, and unless your serious burn out candidate, you can get to grade 5-6 without even having to bump up your magic.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (GryMor @ Feb 28 2008, 04:00 PM) *
Uhm, it's not worthless, and it's not exactly hard, just specialised. Take a grade 3 initiate (27 karma, after discounts) with 6 edge. She gets 12 dice for an expected 4+ hits, against a force 4 ward (respectable for a contracted ward), can only expect 1-2 hits, and needs 3. Congratulations, you've just done the impossible. With a couple more initiate grades, you won't even need the Edge. Heck, even without edge, you have a good chance of slipping past any ward with a force equal to or less than your initiate grade, and unless your serious burn out candidate, you can get to grade 5-6 without even having to bump up your magic.

*cough* SR3 tag *cough*
GryMor
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Feb 28 2008, 05:11 PM) *
*cough* SR3 tag *cough*


Err, what? I'm not following you.
Malicant
He means this is a question to SR3 and you answerd with SR4 rules.
It is pretty useless to try to pass wards higher than force 5, unless you're a serious high grade initiate. Which makes this rule a little weird, indeed.
Kanada Ten
Mages aren't the only thing that can use masking to pass through a ward though. High force bug/free spirits, shedim, (and wraiths, maybe?) use their force in place of grade, IIRC.
Pendaric
Actually they use the spirit energy rather than their force which is considerably easier to raise.

Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Pendaric @ Feb 29 2008, 09:37 AM) *
Actually they use the spirit energy rather than their force which is considerably easier to raise.
Ah, and can bugs share the Queens spirit energy (I think that was one of the hive powers)? I know that shedim received a bonus to bypassing wards, can't recall if it was significant.
Pendaric
Yes. Imps and shedim can bypass wards easier due to their weak astral forms. Can not be bothered to look up the stats but basically spirits run off a different stat and therefore require a lot less karma. Rarely a problem when they are created NPC's though.
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