Ok so I put my brain in a jar then get me a drone body with mimic option to look just like I did before my brain fell out or scooped out..whatever . Raise my body using rules posted on DS and add smart armor using rules from Arsenal, in description not in compiled list (list goes abit higher then allowed in written rules). I go back to my apt/flat/doss/squat and get my armor jack out of my closet. I put it on does it do nothing now as its layered armor that dosnt count? What about form fitting? Just a fashion statement now that I'm a drone or still stackable in some fashion?

Do you mean a actual drone? Or are you a Sam with low essence?

The cyborg from augmentation with modifications from arsenal. So yes believe were treating him as a full drone.

Not sure what you meant to quote on pg.48 end of clothing section,personal armor, armor suits?

Guess my question is simply how would you treat putting old armor on human sized and shaped body. Such as armored clothing,jacket or suits. What about form fitting it stacks with other armors, would it stack with drone smart armor in the example above?

Ahh I thought you were being sarcastic with the whole drone body thing. With that in mind.... I have no idea

I'd personally say drone armor does not stack with worn armor. Otherwise the rating might get to high to quick.

I actually agree but , been some argument about a cyberzombie with limb armor, form fitting and full suit will go well above what a drone cyborg can accomplish with just drone armor if don't allow any to stack.

Aren't cyborgs and drones meant to be one-man armies, and basically GM NPCs? If that's the case, then go ahead and stack armors willy-nilly, and watch your PCs cringe in horror when you bring out the bucket of d6s for damage soaking.

If you've made the mistake of letting a PC become a zombie or a cyborg, then I'd allow the same, but be ruthless with all those negative qualities and cancers and such.

Congrats you've saved up a ton of nuyen and had your brain popped out and tossed into a fighter jet with full military load out. BUT you glitched your test now you have 7 personalities and 4 weeks to live. Oops sorry bout that.

Worn and integrated armor is meant to stack and, yes, this might make a cyborg body almost bulletproof (if you can afford it) - that is one of the reasons cyborgs are interesting options. One of the reasons Structural Reinforcement was not included in Arsenal was that we didn't have enough time to work out all the high-end balance issues. All that said that the only cyborg model that will be able to use worn armor designed for metahuman is the Tomino. The other two models will not pass as metahuman even using Mimic modifications and armor would have to be adapted.

Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Pity you didn't spend more of that karma on willpower, cha and edge. Sucks to be you I guess.

Structural Reinforcement could possibly add 3 more body, at the higher end that would appear be a drop in the bucket. Knowing the folks around here it would allow for a myriad number of convoluted builds that would boggle the minds of us smaller folk.

Nitpicking (cringes) Looking back over Arsenal think you meant Otomo not the Tomino. Otomo mentions ability to use standard gear and Tomino being bigger then a troll.

I think he meant the Otomo... It's easy to get these tri-syllabic japanese names mixed up As you say, the Tomino is bigger than a troll, and the other one is a child sized assassin droid. The Otomo is the only one that makes sense wearing armor, especially because it comes with armor 0 and sorta needs to wear armor if it wants to be combat viable right off the shelf... And what, I ask, is the purpose of spending all the money to make a borg if it isn't going to kill people?

The otomo can be upgraded with let's say 10 points of concealed armor. And if you now put an armored jacket on him, things get awry if the ratings stack.
A full cyberlimb dude that puts armor into his limbs does not end with such a high rating AND his limbs are stuffed with armor, so his attributes suck and he has no flashy toys build in. I'd say that's a good enough reason not to allow drone armor to stack with worn armor.

While you intended to mention the Otomo - wouldn't it be possibe to use custom-made armos like coats to euqip the Tomino... and give it a barely metahuman shape again?
You know, like the MiBs from IX.

Except that you've paid your entire Essence for the privilege of being able to do that, with all the problems that entails, where a sam still has some left on other items.

Besides, cyborgs are clearly meant to be high-level NPCs--or very, very special PCs. Loading armor into a non-customized, non min-maxed limb is available pre-chargen.

Except that the cyberlimb guy paid even more essence for far less benefit. Know your facts.
Cybrogs should be special, but if we start the "armor jacket stack" route, it is not long until the first "armor jacket for cars" enters discussion. Wait, it just did. See what I mean?

Someone should definitly clarify this in the FAQ. Since it is not a new rule and all.

So, cyberlimb armor stacks. Form Fitting stacks. The can of worms is open already. I see no reason why you shouldn't allow drone armor to stack from a balance point of view. Jarheads are gimped enough already anyway.

Gimped? Sweet mother of god! No way.

And balance reason is simple: Armor rating 24. Or 34 if not concealed. Further questions?

or to flip it another way, wearing armor in a vehicle that takes damage. hell, how does the rigger cocoon stack vs the rest of the vehicle?

i dont recall, does adding hardened armor to the mix make the whole setup hardened?

It is already hardened. Basically.

hmm, intriguing...

Some people put rain/dust covers on their parked cars. Take one of those, re-do it in Kevlar with fisheye vision ports.

Vehicle design is a tradeoff of weight, cost and functionality. It should be possible to create a vehicle with 100 armor, as long as you have unlimited resources and don't need it to move fast, handle well, or go far between refuelling. Main battle tanks have a lot of armor because they expect to need it; they would have more except that a) they want to also go fast carrying a big gun and b) the military wants to have money left for other things.

A sammy with normal cyberlimbs can get that high as well, and wear armor. Pretty much the same.

Proof or it did not happen. 34 points hardened armor on a sammy is something I'd really like to see. Even 24 would make me quite happy. And I'm willing to negotiate the hardened part. Go for it.

I know it adds more admin, but surely you can separate the two types of armor but still wear both at once? So assume an Otomo with concealed armor 10 is the base. It then wears a full body form fitting suit with armor clothing on top.

The worn armor is B10, I5. Assuming the attack is below 10 DV, then the damage is turned to Stun, and then stopped completely by the drone armor.

If the attack is above 10 DV then it penetrates the worn armor - compare the remaining DV to the concealed armor and if it is below 10 then there is still no damage.

If the DV is above 20, then the attack has the potential to do damage, and the Otomo rolls 10 Ballistic + 10 Concealed + 6 Body to resist the damage.

Yes this makes jar heads essentially bulletproof to anything short of Assault Cannons or big bore sniper rifles with a lot of successes, but I was assuming the point of jar heads was that they would be bulletproof. And that is why APDS and AV rounds exist.

A Barrett M121 with AV rounds with a single net success to hit would be 10P -8 AP vs the clothing (so 8P would penetrate), and -10 AP vs the concealed armor (so a net result of 8P damage against a soak of 6 Body).

It does get to be an issue with obvious armor and concealed armor (potentially 28 drone armour), but in the immortal words of Martin Brody (and I be paraphrasing here) 'You're gonna need a bigger gun'.

Cyberlimb guy paid MORE than 5.9 Essence? Huh, guess cyberlimb guy is a cyberzombie then?

Even if he gets it all as a suite, deltaware and has Biocompatiblity, basically the full body still costs a crapload of essence and money without any real benefit benefit. Then you start craming the limbs with stuff, it get's really expensive and you still are just a guy with no modified eyes or ears, only 1 IP, not an agility of around 13, etc, etc.
The Cyborg is cheaper and way more badass if really geared into the combat angle. Only maintenance is a bitch.

You should really know the facts if you start splitting hairs.

I know full borgs are supposed to be badass and all, but given that the bottom layer of armor is always going to be hardened....yikes. I wonder if a house-rule that personal armor on top of hardened armor only adds 1/2 might be in order. I'd have to play with one and see first, though, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Every armor a cyborg wears can be considered hardened, since they don't have a stun track to apply converted stun damage to.

I recently build a cyborg and did some number crunching and decided for myself that worn armor does not stack, only highest value is applied. I want them badass, but not armor-rating-TANK badass just from wearing an armored jacked. Does not even make sense, if you think about it.

This is just another of those little thingies that seem to be forgotten/overlooked/misplaced when the cyborg rules were written.

Good point.

Oops, I meant the Otomo. Serves me right for answering with out my books on hand.

Ok, now I will bear a grudge against you for shooting down my logic, Synner.

I still don't think that vehicle armor should stack with personal armor. A cyborg with more armor than a Banshee tank simply doesn't strike me as a good idea. It's not only weird, it creates the practice of wrapping kevlar around armored vehicles to make them even more bulletproof.

What? you don't have custom made armor jackets for all your vehicles? Next you'll tell me you don't pay a lifestyle cost for them either...



... what sort of neglectful monster are you?


I shall call the SPCV on you now... (society for the prevention of cruelty to vehicles....)

I shall wear the hat of shame as a mark of my misdeads.

Also, I promise to better myself in the future. I'm already ordering some new fashion for my sweet Dodge Scoot.

After chargen, 4 points of armor are available on each limb, giving you 20 points of armor before you count the head....Pretty close. I'm not sure right now, but I think with the capacity upgrade on the head you might be able to cram in 3 more armor there. And if you make it a cyber-suite their is still room for MBW 1.

The new rules for cyber-limbs makes for some pretty decent physical attributes as well.

This is without worn armor.

Instead of flapping off our mouths based on nothing, let's start with the rules please



That is about as clear as it could get. Could the RAW be telling us "most gear except for every single piece of armor?" Fuck no. That's the kind of enormous exception that needs to be spelled out.

Let's not get our panties in a knot about how balanced cyborgs are. Cyborgs are not supposed to be fair or balanced. They're supposed to be ridiculous and cheesy. The Otomo has a special rule that lets it wear and use metahuman gear, so it can. Just because it can wear a jacket does not mean we'll suddenly have to let players put jackets on their cars. That's because the cars don't have a corresponding special rule allowing them to wear metahuman armor.

It was never a question if they can wear it, or not. It was about stacking of the armor rating of personal armor and the cyborgs vehicle armor.

It has been resolved, though.

I was pretty sure you take avarage armor rating from limbs to add into the total. A guy with a single arm armored up adding 4 point of armor overall seems fishy.

Ok, you delivered the armor. Well, not all, but much more than I anticipated. Cyborgs kick more ass still.

No, if Mr. Cyberlimbarmor puts on an armor jacket, that makes 22 (conservative cyberskull armor) + 10/5. He's got 32 ballistic armor. That's above your "quite happy" mark and very (very if you can use the capacity upgrade to fit one more point in the skull) close to the 34 you'd really like to see. And yes, it is my understanding as well that cyberlimb armor adds up like that. Scary? Yes. -- Metal body = scary. Of course Mr. Otomo's armor is hardened.

Armor Jakcet is 8/6, not 10/5. Cyberlimb armor does not consume capacity (not in my book, anyway). Cyberlimb guy can have more armor than the Cyborg. I already realized that. Does not affect my opinion to stacking in any way.

Keep seeing the term hardened when talking about vehicle armor. This term is used alot differently in 4th edition, only difference between vehicle armor and PC armor is that vehicle has no stun track so takes no damage if DV of the attack does not exceed its armor value +/- AP.

Now if personal armor stacks with say your Otomo armor, you would simply add these two together to get a total armor value for determining if the damage gets through.

Example: If drone has 10 armor internal and is wearing another 6 as an outer layer, Modified DV of an attack would have to exceed 16 to do damage at all.

Edit: Using the same example above but replacing the drone with a cyberzombie works the same except if the damage did not exceed 16 the zombie would take damage but only as stun.

there is always military armor, its hardened as well...