Dumpshock Forums > Inspiration for Cyberzombies

MaxHunter

Mar 12 2008, 08:34 PM

It was inevitable. So much talk about CZ and I haven't seen any posted in the forums lately!

Actually, I haven't used any CZ in my games yet -kind of- so I am looking for some inspiring concepts and/or stats.

Some of the basic questions in my head are:

- What's the CZ like? (concept / backstory)

- What does it do normally? :grin: of course, killing people comes naturally, but maybe we can go a little deeper. And take "normally" with a grain of salt.

- Any ideas for in game use? (adventures with CZ)

- Stats?

Cheers!!

Max

Jhaiisiin

Mar 12 2008, 08:46 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, you can't create a CZ during character creation, because you're not allowed to reduce your essence to 0 or less. That may explain the lack of character concepts posted. It's a post-chargen concept, and thus many of the rules/limitations go right out the window. Because of the greater range of options after chargen, optimization isn't as necessary on the front end.

Another reason might be because CZ's still get viewed negatively (in my opinion, anyway) because of their sub-zero essence, sociopathic nature, and background count issues. *shrug* No idea.

Were I to create one, I'd rarely (if ever) give it a backstory. They're usually GM NPC's designed to scare the players, more than anything else...

Moon-Hawk

Mar 12 2008, 08:59 PM

Well, it has to be said, so I might as well do it. Check out Hatchetman's story in Cybertechnology for SR3.

Rasumichin

Mar 12 2008, 10:22 PM

Isn't Cybertechnology SR2?
But it's a great read, even though i also enjoyed the CZ fluff provided in Augmentation.

As far as the OP is concerned :

With jarheads being comparatively cheap and biosams hailed as the new SOTA in in-the-long-run-not-fatal-or-mentally-debilitating personal augmentation, the most obvious application for becoming a CZ is to cheat death.
This might be a good starting point for the backstory (and a NPC can use one of those, too, especially if he is an inhuman [or ex-human?] killing machine designated as this week's BBEG).

As far as the crunchy bits are concerned, people always think of full body replacement when talking about Cyberzombies.
Now that there's jarheads for that, i'd try out a different approach.
Even though an articulate weapon arm and two weapons platforms are undoubtedly fun.

What about a dodge monster?
Start with MBW 3 and reaction enhancers.
Keep in mind that becoming a cyberzombie raises your attribute hardcaps, enabling you to push reaction to completely obscene levels when combined with exceptional attribute and genetic optimization.

After pushing reaction to the limit, you might think about adding a syntharcadium.
I cannot recall on top of my head wether syntharcadium and MBW just provide dice pool modifiers or raise the effective dodge skill rating, but i think that at least one of them does the former, which means they would stack...which would result in an absurd DP for dodge tests.
Wide burst time for your players, i'd say.

After having cheesed out on that aspect, there will still be enough room for other useful stuff.
The usual no-brainers attention coprocessor and radar system are, of course, a must.
Some other senseware on top of that is certainly nice to have.

Then there's the obligatory muscle toner, damage compensator and probably also platelet factory and pain editor.
Once we're at it, some more defensive ware, like bone density augmentation or orthoskin with some fancy options might be nice.
And, of course, a suprathyroid gland, everyone would have that thing if it weren't for the availability.
Fill the remaining essence space with whatever fits the concept, if you've used all delta and want to go substantially sub zero, there might still be plenty of space.

Of course, it might also be interesting to create a CZ noncombatant, e.g. a zombie hacker/rigger/tech wiz.
Coming up with enough ware for that purpose could become difficult if you already have access to a delta clinic, though, so one might want to combine this with other options.

Also, instead of making the CZ your next BBEG, you could think about sending some friend of the PCs down that road, which would be highly interesting (or highly depressing) from a roleplaying viewpoint.

Feshy

Mar 12 2008, 11:51 PM

Following Rasumichin's suggestion, here is a cyberzombie with a "normal" body and absurd reaction.

[ Spoiler ]

Chrysalis

Mar 13 2008, 12:00 AM

Inspiration:

Cyberzombie concepts:

AD Police Files 3: The Man Who Bites His Tongue

Cyber City Oedo Episode 2; "Psychic Trooper" (aka "The Decoy" or "The Decoy Program"); Gogl's investigation of a murder pits him against an experimental military cyborg as he tries to rescue his ex-partner.

Terminator I: In the Year of Darkness, 2029, SkyNet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear. Something unstoppable. They created 'THE TERMINATOR'.

Tyrant from Resident Evil: Numerous Tyrants have been created throughout Resident Evil’s story line, each with its own defining characteristics. The games' creators have consistently depicted Tyrants as brutal, grotesque, and violent creatures. Additionally, the intelligence of Tyrants has varied; the first two Tyrants in Resident Evil 0 and Resident Evil were depicted as unintelligent, while Nemesis and Mr. X were shown to possess some intelligence and the ability to carry out specific instructions. Tyrants also possess phenomenal strength; they may actually be the strongest creatures in the Resident Evil series.

Vegetaman

Mar 13 2008, 12:12 AM

It depends... Are we gonna make this bad boy with deltaware? If so... *evil grin*

It trolls!

Mar 13 2008, 12:26 AM

I view the CZ as more of a tool for open warfare. He is maybe a battle-hardened veteran who has lots of combat experience, complete loyalty to his "constructors" and high willpower to sustain a will to live through all this.
Infiltration jobs or covert ops are largely impossible due to the CZs background count, dual nature and distinct aura - also he won't be much of a socializer anymore post-op. That leaves deploying the CZ in areas where it doesn't matter if he's seen. You don't even need to necessarily make him look human from close up. By itself, the zombie is a deadly weapon that'll even take out light artillery plus a devastating effect on enemy morale. Just think of a T-800 like creature breaking an enemy position and tearing apart the puny soldiers whose spray'n'pray from their assault rifles is just shrugged of by it and the astral space looks like torment, suffering and blood magic wherever the CZ roams.

Kyoto Kid

Mar 13 2008, 12:58 AM

...In my RiS campaign (3rd ed), a branch of the Serbian SSID managed special "retraining" centres which were no more than hack labs for creating CZs using POWs & political prisoners. To make matters worse, if the CZ'a biomonitor flatlined, It armed an area cortex bomb which was set on a timer.

...I really am not a

really...

WeaverMount

Mar 13 2008, 02:49 AM

Wacky Idea, What about loading up your Cyberzombie with all the really sweet rigger 'ware that a normal sami doesn't have the essence to think about. I've never actually number crunched rigger 'ware, but I'm about too..

Kyrn

Mar 13 2008, 04:05 AM

QUOTE (It trolls! @ Mar 13 2008, 12:26 AM)

Infiltration jobs or covert ops are largely impossible due to the CZs background count, dual nature and distinct aura - also he won't be much of a socializer anymore post-op.

Where do people get this stuff? Activesofts for all social skills at 4, tailored pheromones 3, emotisensors 6 = charisma + 13 for social tests. Add in an infiltration pool of...hell, just default from agility for 12 dice. Adding in skill and ware makes it sicker. Basic computer skills and a crapload of ware plus cutting edge programs make him a better hacker than any starting character can be.
So he can schmooze, he can sneak, and he can hack, but oh wait there's still that background count.
He won't be hiding that.
Because he doesn't need to. A well-designed, trained, and deployed Zed should be so blisteringly fast and mindfuckingly devastating that by the time his background count is detected, well, you're one dead motherfucking security mage.
These dudes can have body, agility, reaction, strength, and logic in the double digits! They'll be adding four to six dice to most actions they were designed to perform on top of attribute, skill, and basic hardware like smartlinks.

They're like made of win.

Feshy

Mar 13 2008, 04:12 AM

QUOTE (Vegetaman @ Mar 12 2008, 08:12 PM)

It depends... Are we gonna make this bad boy with deltaware? If so... *evil grin*

I've found that the cost of an all-delta cyberzombie tends to be around 10 million

, +/- 50%. I figure that's about right, given the massive amounts of cash that must go into researching and actually carrying out the cybermantic rituals, not to mention the cost of the mages and facilities. If it wasn't delta, you could only fit half as much, and that half would cost 1/10th as much, so you'd be looking at only ~500,000 for a cyberzombie. That seems way too cheap for how rare and difficult to "produce" they are supposed to be -- at least, according to my interpretation. If cyberzombies are just another military-grade weapon in your game, and not something unique and terrifying, then you might view it differently.

Kyrn

Mar 13 2008, 04:25 AM

But deltaware isn't anything special anymore.

fatal2ty

Mar 13 2008, 04:41 AM

QUOTE (Kyrn @ Mar 13 2008, 12:25 AM)

But deltaware isn't anything special anymore.

time to invent Gammaware

Kyrn

Mar 13 2008, 04:46 AM

Or design a cybersuite, use Adapsin genetic alteration, and try to to find a subject with Biocompatibility. Final essence cost modifier with deltaware is 20% of regular. You'll be hardpressed to cram in enough ware to warrant zombification.

Kyoto Kid

Mar 13 2008, 05:23 AM

QUOTE (Kyrn)

But deltaware isn't anything special anymore.

QUOTE (fatal2ty @ Mar 12 2008, 08:41 PM)

time to invent Gammaware

..why pussyfoot around?

Omegaware. -99% Essence, Cost multiplier: your mortal soul (or immortal one).

fatal2ty

Mar 13 2008, 05:52 AM

QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Mar 13 2008, 01:23 AM)

..why pussyfoot around?

Omegaware. -99% Essence, Cost multiplier: your mortal soul (or immortal one).

i doubt 1 person's soul would be worth much, get a great dragon to sign over its soul though, whole other ballgame

MaxHunter

Mar 13 2008, 06:13 AM

to jhailslin; I never mentioned character generation. I am a GM and so far I have not been able to talk any of my players into GMing for me

So, this thread is more about CZ as a plot device. Sorry I didn't clarify that when I started the topic.

to chrysalis: I haven not seen AD police files 3 nor cyber city oedo, maybe you could elaborate...

Some sources I have been thinking about are Global Frequency (big wheel episode), of course, the Terminator, and also that Phillip K. Dick tale: "second variety" i.e. a) government's WMD cz got insane and is loose in a lab b) hitman sent to terminate someone hard and fast c) a cz made to look like something else, more inocent.

Thank you all posters, Keep it up!

Cheers,

Max

kindalas

Mar 13 2008, 06:35 AM

Robocop, even though I am 90% sure Robocop as presented in the first (and second) movie(s) can be built without hitting negative essence the whole killed by criminals while doing job makes for a compelling back story. Just replace criminals with PCs and you now have an effective Lone Star CZ concept.

Vegetaman

Mar 13 2008, 06:45 AM

I don't have the SR4 Augmentation book, but does Deltaware Move By Wire 4 still exist? As I recall, that was like 16 million nuyen in SR3... It was pretty sick. Too bad nobody could ever afford it.

ArkonC

Mar 13 2008, 08:52 AM

MBW now has a max rating of 3 and would cost 2.5 E and 1.75 million

...
[sarcasm] Much more affordable... [/sarcasm]

hyzmarca

Mar 13 2008, 09:51 AM

A cyberzombie isn't an unstopable killing machine. A cyberzombie is a rather pathetic fellow who will forget to live if left alone for 15 minutes. Their tendency to get lost in the details combined with the Invoked Memory Stimulator which automatically makes them remember to keep living makes them very confused most of the time. Certainly they have difficulty telling past from present and memory from reality just as much as they have difficulty determining if guys pointing a rocket launchers at time are more or less important than pretty flowers.
The thing is that they're in bodies of killing machines so when they are forced to get their acts together they can dish out some damage. But, they need a guy there all of the time to make sure that they stay on mission instead of just zoning out and humming Tainted Love for several days.

FrankTrollman

Mar 13 2008, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (kindalas @ Mar 13 2008, 01:35 AM)

Robocop, even though I am 90% sure Robocop as presented in the first (and second) movie(s) can be built without hitting negative essence the whole killed by criminals while doing job makes for a compelling back story. Just replace criminals with PCs and you now have an effective Lone Star CZ concept.

This was firmly in mind when we gave a Cybermancy facility to ~~OCP~~ Ares.

On a different note: Probably Gavin was a played character. Began play impaled on a piece of rebar next to the highway from Los Angeles to Aztlan, shortly after a memory reset. Spent almost the entire campaign piecing together the various previous self overwrites trying to figure out which parts of them were "real." The torture thing was real by the way. Cyberzombies with amnesia and blandness have a hard time getting details out of people.

A Cyberzombie can be quite effective without any overt ware at all. Every modification from the Radar Sense to the Muscle Toner can be subdermal, allowing the character to walk through crowds without alarming anything or anyone that isn't astrally perceiving.

-Frank

ToreadorVampire

Mar 13 2008, 03:35 PM

Cyber City Oedo 808 is an excellent Anime for Shadowrun research, although not quite a cyberzombie, the psychic warrior in "data 2" is very close (just take away it's random telekenesis blasts and it's a CZ).

Also - a cool idea that came from the "killing a cyberzombie" thread was that of a "CyberLich": A CZ doesn't have to be limited to being a combat monster, with different mods, it could be a scientist (especially one that has to deal with dangerous scenarios like nuclear physics, or dangerous substances).

Another idea is the "zero skills" CyberZombie, with incredibly low natural stats and very few skill points - sort of a "universal soldier" concept ... uses only skillwires for just about everything, inside it might be some kidnapped civilian. Not really a great concept for effeciency, but maybe an old experiment gone wrong, and now this crazy CZ is living alone as almost a 'runner, and has some kind of access to an almost abandoned delta clinic (maybe staffed by machines).

MaxHunter

Mar 13 2008, 03:40 PM

Exactly Frank.

The CZ shadowing in the crowds concept is one I like a lot. - "Sarah Connors?"

Now, is there a way to conceal the cz aura? Can a CZ use a masking focus? I think not. But my recollection of those rules is quite hazy.

Cheers,

Max

MaxHunter

Mar 13 2008, 03:40 PM

Exactly Frank.

The CZ shadowing in the crowds concept is one I like a lot. - "Sarah Connors?"

Now, is there a way to conceal the cz aura? Can a CZ use a masking focus? I think not. But my recollection of those rules is quite hazy.

Cheers,

Max

It trolls!

Mar 13 2008, 03:45 PM

A CZ can certainly walk around through the crowds, but actually having him infiltrate anything of importance will prove almost impossible because there's gonna be magical security and the sec mage is gonna go "OH MY GOD, IT'S FROM HELL!".

FrankTrollman

Mar 13 2008, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (MaxHunter @ Mar 13 2008, 10:40 AM)

Now, is there a way to conceal the cz aura? Can a CZ use a masking focus? I think not. But my recollection of those rules is quite hazy.

Technically anything with a Magic Rating is Awakened. You need a magical quality to initiate, but but not to be awakened, nor to purchase a metamagic for 15 Karma. So a CZ can get up in the morning and purchase Masking for 15 Karma as their one and only metamagic (the maximum they can purchase is their Magic of 1 plus their Grade of Zero). Then they can bond a Masking Focus because you need the Masking metamagic (and only the masking metamagic) to bind such a focus. And then the CZ can have an effective grade for Masking equal to Zero (their actual grade) + The Rating of the Focus. Won't stop the background count, but it may confuse the issue somewhat.

I know that Rob is for some reason really upset by the prospect of non-magician Cyberzombies, Ghouls, Vampires, and Devil Rats binding and using foci, so at some point you may well see a rule that explicitly defines all the Awakened stuff that isn't actually an Adept, Magician, or Mystic Adept as being insufficiently Awakened to purchase Metamagics or bind foci. But for right now that's what it says.

-Frank

Moon-Hawk

Mar 13 2008, 04:57 PM

QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Mar 12 2008, 05:22 PM)

Isn't Cybertechnology SR2?
But it's a great read, even though i also enjoyed the CZ fluff provided in Augmentation.

Oops. Yes.

Regarding Gammaware: With Jarheads now, and cybermancy getting better, and things like Adapsin, there might be reduced demand to cram more cyber into a metahuman. Between those options, there would be little gained from another ridiculously expensive grade of cyber. Not just from a game-balance perspective, but even considering it more "realistically" I don't think the 6th world is going to see a higher grade of cyber for a long time.

Feshy

Mar 13 2008, 05:42 PM

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Mar 13 2008, 12:57 PM)

Oops. Yes.

Regarding Gammaware: With Jarheads now, and cybermancy getting better, and things like Adapsin, there might be reduced demand to cram more cyber into a metahuman. Between those options, there would be little gained from another ridiculously expensive grade of cyber. Not just from a game-balance perspective, but even considering it more "realistically" I don't think the 6th world is going to see a higher grade of cyber for a long time.

This seems true to me too. With Adapsin, deltaware, Biocompatibility (cyber), and an even split between bioware and cyberware to maximize the 50% off rule, you're looking at an effective 13 essence points of cyberware plus 8 essence points of bioware. The cool gene tech will reduce those numbers somewhat (since it doesn't come in grades) but seriously... just try to find enough neat 'ware to hit that mark. It'll also be in the double-digit millions already. A grade past delta would literally allow every cyber in the book (and supplements) in a single character. There just isn't physical space for all of that

Besides, at some point it becomes much easier to stop adding machine to the meat, and just add meat to the machine (jarheads, as moon-hawk says)

DocTaotsu

Mar 13 2008, 05:56 PM

It Trolls: I want you to know that "OH MY GOD IT'S FROM HELL!" will be the last words of some PC or NPC in my campaign.