Just curious how everyone is interpreting the the rules now that we have emp grenade and other options with Arsenal.


Doh screwed this up was trying to make it a poll.

EMP only having effect on commlink signal or full effects due to power source still being vulnerable? Other?

Arsenal page 57

To me this seems most reasonable in the case of commlinks. There have been threads about similar things regarding the commlinks, since they are optical or mostly then EMP and the like will have minimal effects to me at least.

Even the HERF gun has a similar effect on commlinks.

WMS

you may short a antenna, but at best you create a stronger light pulse for a moment...

I play that in optical devices they typically don't generate long lasting effects or permanently damage optical memory. That said I seem to recall that EMP (IRL) fries solid state chips pretty easily so... Dunno. You're commlink might go down but at least you don't lose your address book .

thats because solid state chips today are basically antennas to. its very small metal tracks etched into "rock".

The problem with EMP is there needs to be a reasonable way for the Shadowrunners to at least partially harden their gear to resist it if not nullify a certain amount of it. Response chips ain't cheap, and I'd feel really bad frying a hacker's commlink without allowing them some way in game to have a chance.

That said, once the shadowrunners pay to have their gear be EMP resistant, Corps do the same, and so you end up back were you started. Could cause some major fun on the street though, as hundreds of thousands of nuyen is made worthless with a sufficient EMP blast. Jamming is also fun in this regard as people just don't see it coming.

Arsenal page 58


Question is does Harding help resist a Pulse Spell?

WMS

Another question is or are Smartgun links and skin links affected by EMP grenade like effects?

WMS

If it was my call, I'd say yes, since the Pulse spell is environmental, so I assume it works by creating the same kind of thing the HERF gun and EMP create.

DOH!

Something that may need an official statement on, but my take is yes, hardening helps against Pulse spells, as the description basically says the spell generates an electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

Another question for discussion

What effect if any, does a EMP grenade or HERF weapon have on a Technomancer?

WMS

probably nothing. AFAIK Technomancers are walking talking biomechanical comlinks, but since they don't have any metal protrusions for the EMP to fry, i would suspect that all they'd see is a flash of pretty color.

For some reason my google-fu is weak today. Does turning off an electronic device prevent EMP damage (as it's mentioned in umpteen movies)? I honestly can't remember if that's fact or movie myth. If so, runners could do a switch off of all their important gear/ware prior to blowing an EMP grenade or weapon, then switch on a few seconds later and clean up the remains of what's left. Only person I can see this being a SERIOUS problem for would be the cyberlimbed street sam.

And yeah, with Technomancers I figure they'd probably get a bust of static as their wireless gets disrupted, but a quick shake of the head and they'd be back in business. Maybe seeing color spots or something like getting hit from a flash-bang. Nothing permanent though, due to lack of actual electronics.

Hmm well from what I have read TM's are basically living Commlinks, if so, then their antenna are built in.
So at the very least any TM wireless communications for the duration of the EMP grenades "explosion" would be disrupted.

Most of the devices in SR4 do not have metal antenna that stick out like in todays devices, call it compact/stacked/compressed antenna.


Since a TM is not a optical based technology nor any IC, etc, will the power surge induced by the EMP blast affect his "living" commlink?

Would a TM's biofeedback filters reduce the effects of the EMP blast on his/her "living" commlink?

What effect would a EMP blast have on Sprites?


Would a TM lose signal rating due to the affects of a EMP blast?

WMS

@Jhaiisiin
In todays EMP, turning it off has no effect what so ever on preventing damage from a EMP. A Faraday Cage does prevent damage, provided nothing is sticking out ie antenna/cables.

An EMP induces a power surge within affected electronics, does a TM have "pathways" that can be affected?

WMS

That's what I figured. Just threw me for a loop a little. If something is totally shut down, the circuit is cut and there's no power flowing at all, so my brain made the assumption (we know what that does) that there's no power to surge. If I'm reading you right, the EMP basically puts the surge in from the outside, regardless of the status of the circuit.

If I'm reading you rightly on that, does having a powered off, grounded piece of electronics then not get affected by the surge? Or is the pulse happening throughout the electronics on every circuit, so the grounding never has a chance to affect it?

LOL Or better yet, got a resource I can immerse myself in? Love readin' this kind of stuff.

i'm not certain of the effects of high powered EM fields on human brains, that would be something worth looking into. however, i still don't think a TM would be affected by EMP. while they are not run on optic-based computers, they also do not run on copper wiring. but again, it would all come down to whether or not EMP could jolt a human's brain (in which case, EVERYONE would be susceptable to EMP, not just TMs).

Correct the Flux of the EMP blast creates a field of effect that device even turned off and grounded. The EMP effect is happening thru out the device, that is why a Faraday Cage is needed, or Hardening.

Goggle Fu
EMP Wiki Link

WMS

Thanks for the replies, WMS. I had originally skimmed the EMP topic, but didn't catch where it described how the effects were attacking electronics and such. I'll have to actually read it this time I think.

I know that people have been in active particle accelerators with no greater effects than warped vision and vertigo. I'm not sure if this is the same thing as what a HERF gun does at all. My guess is that it wouldn't do squat.

Question, what do you feel would be effected? I just don't know enough about the setting to guess.

With very powerful EMP/EM effects I'd guess you get side-effects similar to the side effects of transcranial magnetic stimulation, which can be seizure, momentary loss of consciousness, slight impairment of short term memory, along with blurred vision and a itching or minor pain in the skin and surface muscles. Note that this would require massive EM noise. If you are standing close enough to the nuke for there to be enough EM noise to cause this sort of thing, then the fireball will have gotten you already.

Of course, a technomancer, who has a built in antenna will suffer much more...

@Crusher Bob
There are non nuclear power EMP generators today. So the source of the EMP is not critical merely the effects.

I agree about the TM and their built in Antenna.

WMS

Interesting Note
Skinlinks have a device rating of 3, so vs a EMP or HERF gun it has 6 dice to get 3 successes or is burnt out. Or is a skinlink optical? if so then its signal is nonexistent after being affected, ie effectively not functional.

WMS

I believe the skinlink works by transmitting low-level electrical signals over the surface of the skin. That would make it vulnerable to EM effects. The idea that skinlinks work optically makes my brain hurt a little.

Hardening rating 6 costs 125 per device, at rating 6 adds 6 dice to the test, so a skinlink device 3 with hardening 6 gets 9 dice to get 3 successes. Statically that means you will pass the test, but with my dice.....it means many times failure.

WMS

Seconded.

How's it work? It uses.... a series of tubes...

Arsenal page 58


WMS

I don't really think Skinlink qualifies as a 'device' (even though it possesses a device rating). It is more of a modification, and as such Hardening would not really be applicable. The device that is Skinlinked however, is a different matter.

hmm lets not derail this thread into "discussion" on what is or is not a device.

If needed there can be another thread "discussing" the pros/cons etc of this is it a device or not.

WMS

Yeah. A discussion, especially one related to the topic at hand, is the last thing we need.

I was pointing out that the power required to get those effects is really only likely to come from a nuke. Portable HREF guns and small FCGs are likely not produce enough power to do anything to people.

But are TM's people per say? Most people are not living commlinks.

WMS

*points finger* Racist!