Hey,

So, you've just been placed in charge of deciding which critters from previous editions of SR make it into a brand spanking new SR Bestiary, and which ones get kicked because they're just too freaking lame to keep and drag SR down under the weight of their sheer crapitude. You can keep or kick any critters from any SR supplement and any edition (Critters, Paranormal Animals of Europe, PA of North America, etc.). So, what does your new SR Bestiary look like in terms of critters you'd include (and which would you delete from SR canon with a shout of unadulterated glee)?

cheers!
Colin

Blackberry Cats are a must.
And Juggernauts, of course.

Besides that, I'd like to see some more biodrones, especially warforms, templates for mutated and toxic critters, stuff for beastmaster adepts and material on the infected.

Tough call. A lot of the McNasties in games I played in were improvised on the fly without strict attention to the published rules.

I can't honestly recall a scenario where the critter book was essential for anything except flavor.

Things I have taken shots at:
Ghouls
Vampires
Devil Rats (near and dear to my heart)
Shapeshifters

Possibly a stronger focus on urban-based critters as being common to Seattle. The published material always seemed to provide critters as an afterthought and not a reality in daily life.

-Siege

I just can't believe the slackness of the vaunted Drop Bear Brigade. You would think that at least one of them would have been chomping at the bit for the chance to promote their fuzzy little rodent idols, but I don't see any of them speaking up.

I'm sure they'll drop in sooner or later...

Why would anyone have to suggest Drop Bears? They are a given.

Given that they be dropped?

Nice.

i wouldnt drop anything- if it wont fit in the books page count, you can always put a few things online for free download.

i think a proper beastiary should include many things, but give more details on the ones you encounter more often. a section on metahuman infection (ghouls, vampires, wendigo, ect), a section on pre-sentient races(harpy, naga, merman, ect), and your varieties of magical beasties. and some normal beasties too. sometimes i just want sharks with frickin lasers! lions, tigers, bears... attack dogs and gorillas.

if anything, we need to add more stuff, to represent the continuing increase in magic. We need some kind of natural-technomancer critter in there as well. dual-natured cockroaches that get into commlinks, that sort of thing.

Shapeshifters are a substantial part of the storyline and aren't in the basic book.

We need:

• Basilisks
• Behemoth
• Chimerae
• Cockatrice
• Garuda
• Gorgons
• Griffins
• Hydra
• Juggernauts
• Ocezotl
• Sphinxes
• Unicorns

-Frank

Some stuff that must needs be kept, just from a skim through PAoNA:

Agropelter
Behemoth
Blood Kite
Century Ferret
Devil Jack Diamond
Devil Rat
Devilfish
Fideal
Firebird
Gargoyle
Gloaming Owl
Greater Armadillo
Greater Wolverine
Gyre
Hell Hound
Hoop Snake
Incubus
Juggernaut
Lesser Thunderbird
Megalodon
Mermaid
Mist Lynx
Nomad
Novopossum
Piasma
Rockworm
Stormcrow
Torpedo Shark

From… "other sources", if the inspiration strikes :
Baggi
Qural'lotectica

~J

I'd list drop bears twice. Maybe three times, to be sure. And diversify them based on rank. The only problem is they'd eat all the other critters (or at least the ones that aren't smart enough not to hide under trees).

I wouldn't mind more random critters to throw at runners in the sewers/wandering through the barrens/whatever. The book has a lot of random critters you'll never use because you're never in that biome.

Oh, and drop bears. Or did I mention those already?

We need (more) awakened plants!

There are lot´s of awakened animals, but only 3 or 4 plants (if I didn´t miss anything).

Seeing not just awakened animals, but also awakened insects and as mentioned above, plants, would be nice. Hell, an awakened bullet ant that actually did sonic damage when it shrieked could be even more scary, for instance.

...and they're Order Diprotodontia (Family: Phascolarctidae) not Rodentia.

As many critters as possible should be crammed in, as normal with me , like to see lots critter art. Also Warform biodrones for sure. Touching on other other awakened oddities as mentioned above as well would be interesting insects,plants etc... And of course lots of extras!

A lot more mundane critters would be nice. Both Biodrones and Shapechange/Critterform spells require stats for the base creature. SR4 only contains about half a dozen such stat-blocks, way, way fewer than previous editions.

How about these for awakened plants

Habenero
Jalepeno
Tabasco
Chili
Kudzu Vine
Paprika
Cinnamon
Vanilla

Animals
Awakened Fire Ants*shudders* something to make a Devil Rat Cry.

WMS

I don't even wanna think about Awakened Army ants.

On the other hand, Awakened Africanized honeybees don't sound as bad; they would probably just set up a magical Compulsion to avoid the hive; telling intruders to go away and having them listen is a better approach than having to fight them off.

I heartily second the inclusion of more Awakened Plants, even if they're mostly immobile and just act as really amped up enviromental hazards with things like poisonous pheromones and suggestion powers. Has there ever been any kind of Awakened/dual natured banyan? Because they'd be terribly appropriate candidates for a type of plant that would be common to certain Domains in India. Hell, what am I saying? Sacred trees are common to all sortsa cultures. Crap like people claiming to have found Yggdrasil are exactly the kinda thing that probably causes gigantic schisms in the Awakened community all the time.

To keep with the Eastern theme though, Frank's suggestion of a Garuda type creature would definitely be cool, since by Buddhist mythology they're enemies of the Naga. Perhaps there'd be a way to make one magical "birdman" shapeshifter stat template and have both the Garuda and the Tengu split off from them as metavariants with different behaviors and apperances? I realize that such a thing would be almost criminally reductive, but frankly, when you're dealing with such terribly old mythological beings it's kinda hard not to shortchange them a bit. I definitely do think they should be included though; they'd be weaker than dragons but easily powerful and iconic enough that a GM could easily turn their presence into a real "Welcome to Awakened Japan/India, bitch!" kind of moment.

As for insects, Lampyridae, aka, the firefly or lightning bug has some real potential if you start taking their nicknames rather literally...

Everything that's ever been in a Sci-Fi Original movie, Dino-Croc, the Snake-Head Terror, Etc.

Dasypus praegrandis [Juggernaught]
Carcharodon neomegalodon [Megalodon]
Homo saevitias [Dzoo-noo-qua]
Gargoyle saxi [Gargoyle]
Heloderma diabolis [Gila Demon]
Dasypus major [Greater Armadillo]
Gulo impii [Greater Wolverine]
Incubus praetexti [Incubus]

...Phascolarctus Hodgsonii [Drop Bear]

Need stats on awakened Pyracantha (Firethorn bush). If you've never experienced the joy of this abomination of nature, let me assure you it could stop a raging troll at full run. That's the unawakened version, mind you. And he wouldn't stop by running into it. He'd see the 3 meter tall abomination, stop his rage, decide he has less terminal pursuits he could do (like parachuting without the chute for instance) and then go the hell home. The awakened version would just be frightening. And flame retardent, I'd bet.

Most important: rules and/or guidelines to convert existing critters to SR4, as well as each and every critter power ever published in a nice list. a bunch of critter generation rules would also be nice.

I'd like to see more grunts and sample peoples...

Various Professional level Hackers, Security Guards, Mages, etc...

In a critters book? oô

What would you need sample people for anyway? You do have generation rules and guidelines for various leveled people in the BBB.

Tell me why people aren't critters? At least one definition of the term says any living creature.

Because I'm thorough and lazy... it takes me forever to make up grunts... I play ping pong in my head over what skills they would or should have, what ratings they should be at, etc. What the difference between say a Professional Rating 3 and a Professional Rating 6 hacker would be, etc...

Because when I start making grunts, I wind up tailoring them to challenge the party instead of what a typical corp might send and I get feelings of guilt from doing so.

If a player hacker goes off on a tangent and decides that in order to learn more about the run on Ares, he's going to hack a Lone Star system, or the team wants more firepower so they'll hit a Colt weapons shipment.... Or anything else like that, I'd like to not have to suddenly start making up stats... I HATE making up stats.

I'd like to decide that 4 PR 5 guards are over there.. and not have to then create their stats on the fly when my players go off in a different direction.

In SR terms it refers to awakened animals (which means any non-PC-legal creature).


Hm. That would be handy, though I'd like to see that in another book, or else, we'd again get something half-assed, iinsufficient and just plain horrible like Arsenal's vehicle section. There was this website around once ... Blackjack's Site or somesuch ... that had extensive lists of NPC, usually in themed batches (major corp, minor corp, gang, you name it). Maybe someone should start another such collection ...

Something like Sprawl Sites - a book that definitely needs to be updated and re-released. Imho, of course.

-Siege

I think it also means non-Awakened animals -- Ordinary Critters -- as well as Paracritters.

I just want to say, though, that I love the term "critters".

Yee-haw, gonna rustle me up some o' them Gloaming Owls an a whole buncha Novopossums an' cook up a mess o' Critter Gumbo.

EDIT: oh yeah, also -- have you considered just using the same NPCs but bumping up the relevant stats by 1 and adjusting their Professional Ratings upwards? I mean, if they're just "guys who are going to shoot you and/or be shot by you".

Hmmm... how about three books:
Book one: Urban Annoyances
- metahumans, primarily city dwelling creatues, HMHVV and similar diseases, etc.
Book two: Wierd Wilds
- more like the previous critter books
Book three: Baleful Botany
- sort of a catch-all for the other things, would include plants, fungi, bacteria, and more

Not sure what critter I would want. But, I do want definitive market costs for trained and even catpured wild critters. Not something like "10,000+"
And definitive training rules.

That is extremely easy; Skills go from 1-6, professional rating goes from 1-6 hmm??? I don't know, maybe the Hacker would have computer skills 3 for Professional Rating 3 and 6 for Professional Rating 6??? Then assume average stats for everything save the attribute linked to their specialty (in this case Logic, so a 4) and assign a device/program rating dependent on what you think the Corp would issue him (Rating 4 for an A-Rated corp, Rating 5 for AA, Rating 6+ for AAA). Seems pretty straight forward to me and took me longer to type than figure out.

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Training rules for Paracritters would be neat. Gives that adept power out of Street Magic a use. As for specifics, I would do much of the eliminating of the silly and extraneous critters and leave those for people to make using the guidelines in the BBB. I mean Drop Bears, WTF were they on to make those?????

Make sure to include a little fluff about the sentient creatures habits and societies. I would also love to see a chapter devoted to Dragons ala DotSW, but that may be too much for the scope of this book.

You know what else I"d like? Something on how to use critters. On how they hunt, on why they're dangerous. A drop bear isn't just another mook guard. It doesn't come out in the open, close into melee range, then attack. It's a predator, it lays better ambushes than you can spot and moves faster than you can react. But most GMs who don't have experience with wild animals, especially wild predators, don't understand that.

So there you go, notes for the GM on how to play critters realistically and dangerously.

That's a very bizarre way to handle it. Following that example.. the Professional Rating 0 Humanis Policlub Goon squad dies before they exist... And assuming every skill is a 6 for a PR 6 Corpsec squad seems a bit extreme too. Which is why I'd like a much larger collection of grunt to work with. Assuming all your stats = your Pro rating results in bizarre low PR and High PR Grunts...

And that also assumes every hacker has the same programs on his commlink. And just the ratings scale. Does that mean a PR rating 3 Rigger has a Drone with all 3's for its stats too?

Prices for buying them and rules for training them. Turn critters into gear.

A giant shape-changing Siamese cat - one of my more vivid nightmares from childhood.

Allow me to clarify then cause I seem to have lost you. To your comment on Professional rating of Zero,that is correct, they suck and will easily be handled by your PCs (below average attributes with minimal skill...or you could just use the book example). Now for a group of Grunts (non prime runners) you really only need a set of core stats for them. In other words, you do not need to know how well the corp sec squad Drives a Car if they are only going to be involved in a firefight with the PCs. If they are rating 6, they should have a rating of 6 in appropriate Firearms skill and a slightly above average AGILITY or BODY (your choice, you can choose to do both if you prefer). So 10 dice for their appropriate skill, which is just about what most PCs will roll for their specialties. I see no problem with this. These are hardened professionals that are trained to deal with runners. At pro 1, they keep kids out of the fenced in area, not a highly secure facility. Please note, this is just a quick guideline for when you don't have time to stat out the opposition. Like you said, the team is set to make a run against Ares and decided to mine the Lone Star system for data. For unexpected complications, this is an easy and pretty much imperfect system for those little surprises you weren't prepared for. If you want more detail, crack open the main book, look at the sample grunts there and change the names to fit the situation. Ok, not Tir Ghosts, Sioux Wildcats. Or not the Triads but a Vory Hitsquad.

Clearly you don't like my system because you want a different level of detail. My suggestion then is grab the contact booklet that comes with the ST Screen and use the appropriate players from it. Mix them in with the sample grunts and you've got pretty much anything you need on the fly. Mine is just a quick gut reaction response to situations that I am put into (or if I need to speed the characters along, I'll throw a group of grunts at them to tackle and hope to prod them into action).



And yes, considering the list of programs is the same for all computer users, pretty much every hacker is going to have the same programs with better ratings going to those who have the more which is pretty much directly correlated to Professional Rating. Yes in the quick and dirty, it would mena the Rigger has programs and drones at rating 3. Makes for a smoother run. Grunts are not meant to be the primary opposition. You as the GM are responsible for putting the forethought of designing appropriate opposition for your players. It's what you volunteered to do. For the purpose of quick grunts, you don't need a full sheet for each one. They are only going to encounter these grunts once, it does not matter what their stats are since everything important to the story has been laid out by you and the characters went off course. But hey, maybe there's flaws in my system...just like every other system out there

Hah! I like it - even the Harry Potter-esque title.

Of course, I've always wanted to watch runners stumble into a life-sized venus flytrap. With an attitude.

And a geeky little sidekick in glasses.

-Siege

That would be nice, but considering the authors try to squeeze what used to be several books into one with their core publications, I don't see that happening.

There's this plant I really love I know it grows in southern Germany (Rheinland-Pfalz) at least. My Oma called it Brenesil not sure of the spelling but it sounds out to that. It's this plant that grows along trails in the woods it has (three pointed? not sure anymore it's been awhile) leaves and has these little hairs all along the whole plant. Anyway it burns the heck out of you if you stumble into a patch of it. We used to make tea out of it.

I want to see an awakened version of that.

Also I'd like to know what it's called. Google seems to compare it to poison oak.

EDIT- I love it because I'm immune. Not sure what my feelings about it would be if I wasn't. It also smells really nice iirc.

Burning nettles. For the Americans: a harmless-looking herb that stings as much as poison ivy does, though it lacks the area effect and in lethality. Still, a nasty surprise for those who don't know it.

There IS an awakened version around that has immunity to toxins and extracts toxins into those it stings (Walzer, Punks und Schwarzes Ice). It's name escapes me though.

Yeah that's it. Huh, they can control internal bleeding? Cool.

Anyway,
Stymphalian birds
Scylla
Cailleach Bheur
Catoblepas
Cerastes
Ellerwomen
Fuaths
Gandayak
Hombre del Saco
Zaratan

The Bunyip.

...I thought the last two had more of an Lemony Snicket's like ring to them.

Maybe for the city ones call it Malevolent Metropolis.

Disclaimer:

However if you are a sane rational person you would do best to consider forgoing the three aforementioned titles altogether and curling up in fort of the fire instead with a book about more pleasant subjects such as gardening or home decor...

Miniature fire-breathing sabretoothed flying phase-doppleganger Giant Space Hamsters!

I have the strangest feeling I've seen that creature description in the D&D massive game breaking characters discussions. I don't exactly remember how that fit in, maybe it was the mount for a level 14 half pixie half halfling that managed to get a level 59 equivalent mount, but it does look familiar.

As for Kyoto Kid's disclaimer, now I need to come up with a title about meta-home decor (I already have the vicious and strange gardening guide in there). I'll work on it later.