Say you have a sustained Improved Invisibility spell cast on yourself and you walk into a room of dual-natured critters. Physically they won't be able to see you, but since they are dual-natured, your aura is still as plain as day. Is there anything you could do to conceal your aura?
Full Version: Hiding in the Astral Plane
there's the spirit-power of concealment i think . . i guess that's supposed to work on the astral too
No reason Infiltration skill couldn't be used as well.
Per RAW, mana based spells work on the astral. This includes mana based illusion spells. Improved Invisibility would have no effect at all on the Astral because it is physical. But Invisibility should work.
The problem is the RAW also says that you can't "disguise" or "create" an aura with spells. Is being invisible a form of disguise? I wouldn't say so, but reasonable minds could differ.
And the RAW says that all spells have auras on the astral. The invisibility spell might hide your aura, but its own aura isn't invisible.
Finally, the RAW says that an assensing test will reveal an illusion to be an illusion on the astral. Is knowing that an invisibility spell is an illusion the same as being able to see the invisible person's aura? I don't think so, but again reasonable minds could differ.
The best account I can come up with is this: Invisibility will conceal your aura on the astral plane, but the spell's aura will still be there. People can assense the aura to realize that a) it is an illusion and b) it is an invisibility spell. If they don't resist the spell, however, they still can't see your actual aura. But because they can (with a successful assensing test) notice the aura and tell what it is, they will know where you are. So they could attack you with astral combat on the astral (or with physical combat on the physical) with the normal penalty for not being able to see the opponent.
Also, Infiltration works perfectly well on the astral. Physical forms are still opaque on the astral and you can hide behind them; you can also hide behind life forms even easier. And just because there are no lighting penalties on the astral doesn't mean everyone notices everything automatically, they still need to make opposed checks to spot you sneaking, and Assensing checks to notice anything that isn't obvious just like with Perception.
The problem is the RAW also says that you can't "disguise" or "create" an aura with spells. Is being invisible a form of disguise? I wouldn't say so, but reasonable minds could differ.
And the RAW says that all spells have auras on the astral. The invisibility spell might hide your aura, but its own aura isn't invisible.
Finally, the RAW says that an assensing test will reveal an illusion to be an illusion on the astral. Is knowing that an invisibility spell is an illusion the same as being able to see the invisible person's aura? I don't think so, but again reasonable minds could differ.
The best account I can come up with is this: Invisibility will conceal your aura on the astral plane, but the spell's aura will still be there. People can assense the aura to realize that a) it is an illusion and b) it is an invisibility spell. If they don't resist the spell, however, they still can't see your actual aura. But because they can (with a successful assensing test) notice the aura and tell what it is, they will know where you are. So they could attack you with astral combat on the astral (or with physical combat on the physical) with the normal penalty for not being able to see the opponent.
Also, Infiltration works perfectly well on the astral. Physical forms are still opaque on the astral and you can hide behind them; you can also hide behind life forms even easier. And just because there are no lighting penalties on the astral doesn't mean everyone notices everything automatically, they still need to make opposed checks to spot you sneaking, and Assensing checks to notice anything that isn't obvious just like with Perception.
well, depending on how you look at it . . on the astral, you're all glowy and stuff, even as a cyber-zombie-lookalike . .
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 17 2008, 03:21 PM) 
there's the spirit-power of concealment i think . . i guess that's supposed to work on the astral too
Actually concealments labeled as a physical power, meaning it cannot be used in astral space and cannot affect astral forms.
interesting . . guard perhaps? or something like that . . i am pretty sure that there was something like that somewhere in the books, but i am at work <.<
QUOTE (BBB)
Concealment
Type: P • Action: Simple • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained
Type: P • Action: Simple • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained
As a physical power, concealment does jack all on the astral plane. I assume infiltration works if there is some workable astral cover, and masking/extended masking can alter your aura alot and conceal the spell.
Chris
Masking (and Extended Masking) would be my suggestion as well.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 17 2008, 09:37 PM)
well, depending on how you look at it . . on the astral, you're all glowy and stuff, even as a cyber-zombie-lookalike . .
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
On the other hand, hiding in a crowd may be a lot easier.
That infiltration works on the astral does not mean you don't have to take different modifiers into account.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 17 2008, 03:37 PM)
well, depending on how you look at it . . on the astral, you're all glowy and stuff, even as a cyber-zombie-lookalike . .
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
if you're standing in a deserted building infiltrating you'll still be one single glowing thingie on the astral O.o
I use what I call the "flare-taped-to-the-head test". If you have someone hiding behind a tree in a forest, the fall off of the light they cast is quickly dwarfed by the ambient light from the forest. If you are hiding behind a Pillar in an empty facility, that same falloff is very very visible. An inverse square takes a LONG time to reach zero
Also I'm not certain that an extended masking invisibility would work because
QUOTE
Masked foci and spells appear to astral observers as normal
fluctuations in her magical aura.
fluctuations in her magical aura.
To me just as masking can't make your aura totally invisible (it masks it), I doubt that extended masking can make your spells and foci totally invisible. To me this would mean that if you cast an extended masking invisible on your aura you would see "normal fluctuations in [a] magical aura" floating around not attached to anything.
Hey, thanks for all the responses. Using the infiltration skill wasn't something I would of thought of. So in conclusion, it would be possible to mask your aura to look like something else, possibly something tiny like an insect or something and it is possible to find cover in the astral using physical objects (would a chameleon suit effect astral perception?) but it is not possible to be "invisible" or rather go undetected/unseen as per the example of walking into a room full of dual-natured ghouls. Basically no matter what you did, you would be detected by the ghouls unless you had some kind of cover and succeeded at an infiltration test. Sound about right?
The only ways I see to hide on the astral, are:
- Masking/Extended Masking Metamagic: Pretend to be mundane while projecting, might be able to hide in a crowd.
- Phantasm: Create box and hide in it? This was up for debate a while ago, and is still somewhat unresolved as to whether or not the box is immediately apparent as a spell or not. Also, whether the spell would hide your own aura from assenssing like a ward. Which reminds me, why not just make a mana barrier to hide yourself in?
- Infiltration: Mind, this will be worthless in a facility without life, since you are the only aura and will be quite obvious, not to mention your criminal intentions. In a greenhouse or jungle this would be much easier to accomplish.
Auras are not huge beacons of light. You can hide in a lifeless area using infiltration just like on the physical plane: breaking line of sight. Hide behind objects, or even inside objects, works just fine.
QUOTE (Malicant @ Mar 18 2008, 12:49 PM)
Auras are not huge beacons of light. You can hide in a lifeless area using infiltration just like on the physical plane: breaking line of sight. Hide behind objects, or even inside objects, works just fine.
You have the right idea, I'm just saying that "huge beacon of light" is relative. during day time, you rarely notice headlights, at night they are totally obvious. How I ran this for an infiltration adept at my table was that when they wanted avoid astral sight he had to take extra precautions. If you are coming up to a T intersection i a building You can't take full cover right at the edge, your light will shine a bit and it will be obvious that there is someone there. You can handle this by standing a few feet back if that's an option though. The is where I was going with my pillar example. I called it a -2 to infil,
If Auras gave off a 'glow' the way normal light works, then the extensive glow from the Earth itself would be enough to hide any Aura with a little help. Personally, I don't think the 'glow' from an Aura extends so that it can be seen around the edges of a wall or even a pillar if that person is successfully hiding behind it using Infiltration.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=20735
In particular:
In particular:
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Feb 22 2008, 11:46 PM)
Barring careful planning and special circumstances, it can be. A good way to go about it is to scout out the local astral plane and situate your illusion to take advantage of the Astral Visibility Modifiers (p.114), or else create your own (Mana Static spell, I choose you).
A particularly potent magician, or a team of less-accomplished spellslingers, or even an average magician with some prior planning and anchoring foci, can really get an advantage by combining spells for greater effect. Spells like Bugs, Confusion, and Orgasm are disabling enough on its own, but also can make Assensing Tests more difficult-combine it with a Double Image of yourself and there's a 50% chance your astral enemy won't hit you with a spell even if he gets it off. Assensing Tests are based on Intuition, so a Decrease Intuition spell will signficantly impair their ability to pierce the Mask spell disguising your aura (good for getting past dumb watcher spirits).
A particularly potent magician, or a team of less-accomplished spellslingers, or even an average magician with some prior planning and anchoring foci, can really get an advantage by combining spells for greater effect. Spells like Bugs, Confusion, and Orgasm are disabling enough on its own, but also can make Assensing Tests more difficult-combine it with a Double Image of yourself and there's a 50% chance your astral enemy won't hit you with a spell even if he gets it off. Assensing Tests are based on Intuition, so a Decrease Intuition spell will signficantly impair their ability to pierce the Mask spell disguising your aura (good for getting past dumb watcher spirits).
[ Spoiler ]
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.