I'm putting together a Mystic adept. I don't think room to grow is going to be an issue, but I'd like to make sure I can count of being effective out of the gate. I'm undecided on tradition. Thinking of maybe Christian Theurgy/Qabbalah or possibly Houdonism played as snake handling-esque Christian ...

So, here's the stats and some gear:

Alright, that's it. Got 13,414 left for ammo, skill chips and other accessories ...
Thanks for the feedback

I had more positive qualities but found myself dumping them for points elsewhere

I think you're trying to do too many things at once. I don't really see how your character is going to have the dicepools to take advantage of the Astral Perception and other Adept Powers consistently (5 dice on an unarmed attack is just asking to get your butt kicked; there's almost always a better combat option with that low of a pool, even if it is just running), so you're really just limiting your own potential by being a Mystad rather than a Magician, plus you don't even really have a whole mess of spells to rely on. Also, I don't think you have enough magic points to buy all your powers and still have 'ware, unless you bought your Magic up to 6 prior to buying the 'ware and neglected to mention it. As a general rule, I suggest trying to specialize a bit more, since Mystic Adepts are at their best when they generally pick one niche for their Adept Powers and one niche for their Magical Abilities and then really emphasize them. They're inherently rather narrow characters coming out chargen, but they can make excellent Conjurer/Faces and Counterspellers if you build them right.

One of the pitfalls of an open build system is that you can spread yourself thin to the point of uselessness. Mystic adepts already start out handicapped because they are splitting Magic between adept powers and magery. Your character will be rolling extremely low dice pools for just about everything. 6 dice for unarmed combat, 2 dice for spell defense, 4 dice to cast your one spell (assuming you did a 3 adept/2 mage split - not sure what 'mysticness' is - mystic armor maybe?), 5 dice to summon spirits, 9 dice for pistols - and his dodging and soaking aren't too good either.

A supporting character could get away with low dice pools for some things (extended tests, or tests without as many potential negative modifiers as magic or combat, are more forgiving). Judging by your choice of adept powers and gear, though, you seem to envision a more combat-oriented character. Sorry, but this guy would probably struggle even in a low-powered campaign. I'm not even sure how you could fix him. I think the main thing is that he needs to be more focused. If you want a combat guy, you will need to lose a lot of versatility to make him effective.

Alright Here's the same character reworked. Going for Voodoo tradition played as possessed-by-the-Holy-Ghost-Christian.

Spoiler tage used to avoid excessive post length

I'm keeping the Astral perception as it gives me a way to deal with astral spirits.
I'm looking at this character partly as an occult investigator type character and look forward to delving into Manatech such as the Lucifer Lamps

It's an improvement, but I really do recommend just making a Magician if your character is intended to be the guy on the team who can deal with Astral threats and investigations. I'd honestly take the Astral Projection/Perception combo and 2 more dice for my Summoning over Astral Perception and 3 more points of unarmed combat damage any day. Heck, you could drop down to a 3 magic magician after 'ware and use the 30 bp point savings to learn Astral Perception, Astral Combat or Counterspelling while still having the same dicepool for summoning your spirits, if you wanted to. Astral abilities are nice, but becoming dual natured is not without risks and I wouldn't really recommend merely dabbling in the Astral unless you're already a magician and are effectively only paying 5 more bps for the privelege.

I have a quick question about Mystic Adepts...ive played a couple before but there was one thing i never did.

Am i able to just take all of one thing(IE, i have a magic 5, rather than splitting it, i have a full 5 points of adept powers but nothing in magic yet, with the purpose of raising it later?)

I don't see it being too unbalanced if it's so...after all i'm paying 10 BPs at the start for the ability to..well, not be able to cast spells until i have some Karma under my belt. Im curious about this; im designing my NPC(well, they could be PCs if i wanted to bring one in a game), magical group and one of them i don't think has awakened casting yet; but i can see them maybe developing it later.

You don't have countermagic. That seems a highly questionable decision.

My opinion is that the main reason to take a MA is to get countermagic as an adept. But in general, I'm getting less and less convinced it makes sense unless you are dong a social or hacker adept.

Well, unless they added something in Street Magic, it looks like you don't have to put a any points toward either. So your Magic 5 Mystic Adept could have 5 power points of apdet powers or 5 points of Magical Abilities. Or you could split the points up. It'd be nice if they just listed it as an adept power with the note that you have to be a mystic adept to choose it.

Pre-SR4, you had to have at least one point in Magical Ability. And you were extra hosed because if you lost Magic points (for any reason) the first ones lost were the ones you put toward Magical Abilities.

Has anyone brought up the errata to Street Magic effect for Mystic Adepts?

Start with only using a point or two for Adept powers, and be mostly magician sided. Then when you initiate take a Power Point on initiation, and then increase your magic for the magician side. Spread both your bases at a realitively easy rate. Unless the errata is only for adepts, and not for Mystic Adepts?

Listen to Whipstitch. Create useful dicepools.

You spend magic on being good in close combat, but you suck compared to some unaugmented mundanes. An offensive pool of 7 is not enough, even if you have the DV of a heavy pistol.



You are in effect playing a mage with gimped magic except for conjuring. As much as it hurts to write this, you are better off playing an aspected conjurer (which has astral perception for free), and increasing close combat ability via implants. Please don´t take that as a recommendation; If you are dead-set on not using normal spellcasting, take Incompetency(Spellcasting) and read up on Ritual Spellcasting.

The big issue with the Close Combat skills is that a competent opponent virtually always gets to roll an applicable skill to defend against your attack, unlike with firearms where they need to blow a complex action to defend with anything but reaction. This means that close combat is typically your worst offensive option unless you've got the element of surprise, are bullying someone far, far less skilled than you are. Problem there, of course, is that there's no real way to just eyeball someone and tell if they've got 3 or 4 Dodge. You likely won't know for sure how good they are until they dodge your attack and plug you with their sidearm.

I totally don't disregard Close Combat. Of course, it helps YOU defend. Second, there is an element of surprise in fighting a very skilled close-in character in a world of ranged weapons. And yeah, if you have a DP big enough, you can hurt them(especially Adepts with the Killing Hands/Critical Strike combo or a strong Sam with bone lacing). But it IS a little more intensive to make a character more based around it.

One thing I was going to do was take 4 points of spellcasting magic and 1 point for adept powers. The adept powers are for 4 ranks of critical strike.

Use the Knockout stun touch spell (f/2)-3 with your unarmed attacks.

Then say you're a 7 strength Orc you you have a base 4S damage, +4 for critical strike for 8S. Then you're delivering a knockout spell that's overcast to force 8 (drain value 1P). That should stun just about anyone out.

I never said to disregard it, I just said it's a crappy offense, which is a problem since he's sank a full magic point into it into it's damage code. I personally take unarmed combat on my characters all the time. I also never take anything more expensive than a shock hand or Ultimate Champion cyberarm modification to upgrade it though either.

Ack! Brain lightning bolt! This thread has given me insight! Mystic adepts are perfect for aspected combat sorcerers! Why? Magic resistance, magic sense, piercing senses, and cloak (mostly magic resistance though)! These all make you a much better anti-mage mage. And what does your team need a mage for in the first place? That's right, shutting down enemy mages!

Also, Cognition is not half bad for boosting your willpower or drain attribute to horrendous levels for casting big spells.

It wasn't really a Sorceror, but I have played a walking pile of MystAd anti-magic before. There's really only one problem I have with the concept: Being an anti-magic specialist without Astral Projection is rough. One of the easiest ways to nerf a spirit is to fight it on the astral; it gains passes, but so do you, plus its attributes are reduced to Force rather than Force plus bonuses. Dropping a Mana Static on top of that is basically game, set, match. And of course, giving up a point of magic just for plain astral perception is in the vast majority of cases unnacceptable and a sign that what you really want to be is a full Magician. However, I've long suspected that a focused anti-magic mystic adept paired with a pure mage would make for one hell of a magic hunting duo! With teamworked counterspelling tests and the mystic adept's unique resistances and the Magician's Astral Perception there's no way Illusion magic is tricking those two short of tremendously bad rolls (or Harlequin). Besides, that way the Magician could handle the heaviest lifting on the Spellcasting end, which would free up the MystAd to be a slightly more focused character. Toss in projection for astral scouting and the raw dicepool necessary to abuse the odd emergency Mana Static and you'd have a magic annihilating match made in heaven.

Thanks alot for the feedback!

I don't have the time right now to adjust the char based upon the input. I should elaborate that this is not the primary mage. There is a full mage. I'm looking forward to researching and attempting to portraying Pentecostal* beliefs. I think my first path with karma is going to be pursue Channeling metamagic through Initiation.

How about my gear choices?

*The Pentecostal faith was chosen because it's belief in possession of the Holy Spirit.

By the way, I couldn't afford Type-O with Mystic Adept (darn 35 BP limit), but it seems like a killer option for a straight up Adept.

Quick tweak based upon the feedback. Also, I noticed I included unaugmented reaction (3) rather than augmented (4)


I reluctantly dropped Magic down from base 6 to 5 to free up some points.

Just as an aside, has anyone run into someone trying to get +1 unarmed by putting personalized grip on gloves (ie the hardliners above or shock gloves)

For a runner name, I might take Shoes.

Since I'm not sure how possession traditions work, can you check that these stats are correct for Shoes being possessed by a Force 3 Guardian Spirit?

I do for Hardliners! I can see no reason why this isn't allowable, as the gloves are weapons, and I can easily picture them being customized (snug, cusom-fitted macroplast inserts and the like).

Not to distract too much from the Shoes needs help theme , but how do you justify it? And what other mods have you tacked onto gloves? Gecko Grip to get combat gecko gloves, Propulsion System (Thank you, Thing!)? Do you require Metahuman Adaptation for Troll/Dwarf hands?

I haven't done any other mods as of yet, although some others are not out of the realms of the possible. I justify it, as I said earlier, by actually having not only the gloves custom-fitted, but the actual insert that fits inside molded to fit the character's hands as well. It's fluff-like, in that I don't really have to explain it any further than that, just as a custom grip on a knife (which I also do), and a custom grip on a pistol (yes!) is also granting a benefit that I don't have to explain. Technically by canon you can get this modification for a monowhip as well (I felt that it wasn't justified for my one character that possesses one, due to backstory and the whip's history).

And yes, I require metahuman adaption, because I'm a racist and hate all them fraggers.

Dood, I never even noticed the part about personalized grip helping a melee weapon! I wonder if it would apply to a rifle or a pistol when you're using it as a club? I would say no, because it says recoil "or" melee. So you could give your pistol a personalized grip for clubbing, or a personalized grip for recoil, not both.

-The spirit uses its own IP, so the synaptic booster only applies for reaction. Consider if that is still worth it. The trauma damper is IMO fine.
-You are sure about Banishing? What do you want from it?
-No dodge for you. Channel a guardian spirit. One might have ideas on weapon skills here. See that abilities are not powers.
-Buy and wear armor that encumbers you while unpossessed.
-Channeling Metamagic is your first goal. How will your char develop from that point onwards?
-You are aware that you will be playing the homunculus for a spirit, while the full mage of your group will have 3+ running around?
-Are you set on the close combat concept?
-What spirit strategies do you have in mind? (Purpose/Type/Power: Combat/Guardian/Any weapon skill)

Ooo! A list! I like lists

Okay, so the spirit gets to bump 1 point of physical damage into stun while I'm possessed? Seems hinky to me. If spirits don't urinate in their pants when they're tasered because they don't have central nervous systems (or sometimes, pants), how does the trauma damper work?

I know you can dismiss it as a special case due to possession, but it should be given thought and removal of the immunity to taser side effects should come with ability to benifit from trauma damper. If you want more bookkeeping, you could say when the gestalt entity gets shanked for 4P the spirit taks 4P and the meat takes 3P+1S.

The ability to banish a spirit someone sics on me or tries stick in me Do you have a suggestion for something else to do with those points?

I'm confused. Are you saying I don't have dodge or shouldn't have dodge? I like not having to say wait while summon something before you shoot at me ...

I don't think it's realistic or, in character, considerate to assume the character can be constantly possessed or nearly so in order to be mobile while wearing a mattress. I have to recheck the armor encumbrance rules, but I do believe while unpossessed, I will suffer a -1 Agi penalty. That wasn't intentional. I'll have to reevaluate.

Improve skills. develop spell casting. If I learn a few spells, I can pass them onto a Spirit of Man for casting. Invoking and shielding seem like good follow up options.

Just read the limit on unbound spirits. Is that what you meant? If not:

What about possession based traditions presents me from have 3+ running around and sending them to possess other people orjust running amok astrally? Some options are sending a spirit to possess a soft-headed foe, possess the astrally projecting mage (protecting the body and getting some extra oomf) or possessing a KO'd teammate or foe. Also, search can be used by an astral spirit ...

I do look forward to RPing the self-possession aspects though

No, but I do like hitting like a jack hammer

Well, let's see.
Combat role: Guardian rocks. Gives me any combat skill at Force rating. With Channeling, the gestalt deals Force+3 (or +4)P damage with AP equal to penetrating strike damage. Both Guardian and Guidance can avoid straight confrontations in some cases with the fear power
Spell defense: Guidance and Guardian both provide spell defense. I believe mine will be down while I am possessed until I have Channeling (at which point we can use teamwork or split the spell defense dice).
Utility:Task spirits are fun! Seems like creative use of Binding may net you "free" wall climbing ability. I get astral perception and assensing skill through any spirit (even watchers). Several spirits provide the movement power for slowing down the opposition or accelerating friends (or accelerating a foe into a wall or pavement). Shadow Cloak is handy for stealth. Influence for social situations ...

... Maybe I can save some karma on actual skills ...

Hmm. Would it be a terrible pun to name him John Gestalt?


... Who is John Gestalt? /duck

-How are Spirits immune to the secondary effects of being tasered? Point me please. It could/would change my opinion.

- Banishing does not work, except against low-force spirits. And those have low immunities. Banishing+Magic vs. Force+Magic, only net hits help, and you take drain. You´d be better off buying Killing Hands to bypass the immunity.

- I´m saying you should not have dodge. Your dodge-pool is rather low, so you benefit only when possessed anyway. So you should suck it up and spend the first IP on summoning, yes. As for constant possession, not my point. On the job, you should be running around with either Conceal or Movement active.. You don´t need agility or reaction outside combat, so no big thing if you are encumbered.

- If spellcasting is an option, buy it now. Use the points from Pistols and Banishing.

- If you get Spell Defense twice, only the higher one counts. No teamwork, you are one entity.

Apparently I was halucinating because I can't find it. It may have been a freelancer's post on DS so got ingrained in my head as canon. Thanks for catching it.

Good point. Except for the Killing Hands. I've got R1 Weapon Focus gloves so I bypass immunity anyway.

I'll consider it. I like having dodge on my own.

Banishing yes, Pistols I don't see why.

Now this one I can back up with a quote ... "If more than one magician protects a target with Counterspelling, handle it as teamwork (see p. 59)." (SR 4 pg 176)
Plus myself plus the full mage and a guidance spell also means three spell defense pools

Pistols for the points, because it can be replaced in function by Spellcasting. Nothing against Pistols skill on anyone.

The gloves are good, I overlooked them.

I´ll spare you the (german) quotes, but the vessel and the spirit are one entity. You gain Counterspelling twice (once by skill and once by magical guard), but that does help you as much as chipping a skill you personally have does - not at all. (Just to avoid confusion: In this case a higher personal skill is of course accessible).

It seems to me that Pistols offer more bang per complex than spells. It would take quite a bit to make spellcasting a useful investment. Just one or two spells wouldn't do it. Also, most spells would have minimal kick unless I passed them over to an oversummoned Spirit of Man.

I haven't seen anything that says such in the English version and there's nothing I can find requiring the spirit to be possessing to provide spell defense ...

Spellcasting 4 + Manabolt/Improved Invisibility/Heal/Gecko Crawl. Worth the points already. Pistols deal more damage, but can only deal damage. I think you´d do way better with spellcasting.

The spirit must be possessing in order to be on the physical plane. It can only spell-defend things on the same plane.

Spellcasting 4 = DP of 7. Max Force of 3 without physical drain; max of force of 6. I did consider spellcasting heal + changing adept abilities to the heal stun damage one. But you're talking about spending 28 BPs to be more useful than 16 BPs. That's not a fair comparison. Now, 1 rank of spell casting and a spell or two is really handy because I can always pass it to a F3+ Spirit of Man to cast.

For Counterspelling, well I suppose it could fall under "interacting" with the physical world, but it is odd that under spellcasting, they state you can only cast at targets within LOS on the same plane as you. They don't make that statement for Ritual Spellcasting (though they do say the astral spotter's target does not have to be astrally active).

Can an astrally projecting mage maintain spell defense on buddies? If so, an astral spirit with counterspelling can.

No, the astrally projecting mage can´t do that either. Every participant needs to be on the same plane - caster, target and defender alike.

I´m aware that spellcasting is alltogether more expensive than the Pistols skill. Good thing, too. You can always chip pistols skill if you need it, or gain it via a guardian spirit. If spellcasting magic is too low for your tastes, look at Power Focus 2 (best bought at chargen), appropiate Specialisation, and a Mentor Spirit.

It's not really the spellcasting skill that keeps the successes down, though, but the cap on successes based on Force. For a mystic adept, that will tend to be low except when overcasting or spending Edge.

I´ve played a mage with magic 3, if you accept overcasting you can do quite a few things. Only high-force manabolts/balls are impossible.

I'll post my tweaks later, but thanks for the advice, Ryu. I had not really considered chipping pistols. It still seems like Binding is going to be a bit more useful than high spellcasting. I will be picking up a mentor spirit likely either Sun (Michael) or Owl (Gabriel?). I'll also likely pick up initial spells as fetish limited - depending on what qualifies as a fetish (ie, silver cross good enough?).

So, as a magic 3, mage what were your tactics?

btw, I will be keep unarmed combat at 2-4 but I'm going to reevaluate the adept powers. I started with those powers with the original concept but the character concept has changed so much that it doesn't fit. It might be something to consider later if I find I want to punch like a step-van.

As a magic 3 magician with decent drain soaking capability I've found a lot of your utility depends on whether or not you're in a position to summon openly. One of the reasons I generally prefer Materialized traditions is that I find many times I prefer to have a Spirit tucked away in the corner providing things like Guard, Concealment or Movement rather than doing anything overt. Possession traditions can do that too, of course, but it sometimes takes a pinch more planning than I'd like. The good thing is that you can summon at Force 3 and choose an extra utility power while still only taking stun drain, so between your decent stats and the trauma damper you should be able to do so with impunity.

Version 3(?) of my Pentacostal Mystic Adept.


I know I didn't take any materials to Bind with, I'll have to pick those up later. I still took binding at 4 so after a run or two I can probably pick up what I need.

I think this fits the bill for usable Dice Pools. I don't think Pain Relief is a particularly powerful ability (I could be wrong), but it seems to fit the character.

Street names:
Shoes, Rolls , Roller, Rollin, Twitch, Preacher, Script-Kiddy (for a more youthful take), or Shakes

My advice for Mystic Adepts is to carefully define the focus of your character, and have the Adept Powers and Spells/Magic skills work towards enhancing that focus.

Your character's main focus seems to be the working of Magic - your highest dice pools are things like summoning, spellcasting, and binding. Maybe you'd be better off being a full magician instead? (I don't recall the precise description of Pain Relief off the top of my head, but isn't there an equivalent spell you could take instead?).

If you really want to be an Occult Investigator, gear your skills, powers, and spells (and 'ware if you want it) towards actual investigation, rather than combat, or spirit wrangling. Stuff like Etiquette, Shadowing,, Assensing (if you take Astral Perception, which seems rather obvious for an Occult Investigator), Enhanced Sense and Improved Skill powers, Detection spells, and so on. Think of how your various abilities will let you perform the tasks you want to perform.