In an upcoming adventure of mine I am having my group of runners lay siege to a corporate facility via forgotten underground tunnels, the ending section of which have quite a negative background count as they run just below laboratories where Cyberzombies reside in hibernation as they are constructed/perfected. Inspired (With very heavy modification) from the ancient module 'First Run' I decided to spice up the passage through the tunnels with a new kind of ghoul, and I wanted to run the stats and general idea by you kind people as my grasp of how the rules play out is still developing.

I am introducing a new kind of ghoul strain, I call it the 'Rak-Kreiger Strain'. Major differences include an increased allergy to sunlight, the further loss of humanity/intelligence, and the mutation of the arms and back encouraging an ape-like gallop as well as a small bonus to grappling due to the pronounced elongation of arms and fingers.

Applying the racial modifications of orks to the standard template of the ghoul, as this colony was once an underground Ork turf, bringing the Body to 10 and the strength to 8. I will also be adjudicating the single magical point they all have to minor toxic shamanhood, Mentor Spirit being Mutation with emphases on beast spirits. This way they can wander about on the astral plane, their bodies dormant untill some powerful magical effect draws their attention.

Their favored mode of assault is to be the overbear, bringing a classic 'sprinting zombie swarm' flavor to the scene. One ghoul tackles an individual and the rest swarm in, all piling on and ripping the poor runner apart. I am attempting to encourage PCs to utilize as little force (Especially magic, as the majority of the Rak-Ghouls <Knights of the Old Republic anyone?> will be in a semi-slumber, ghosting around in astral form) as possible on the way, as almost any attempt to stop and fight these creatures (Rather then drive directly through the wide, but debris strewn tunnels) will result in the Ghouls swarming en-mass. This will also showcase the suppressing fire option of any fully-automatic weapons the party may have, should the excrement strike the wind-propeller.

The major clash will occur after the infiltration as the monsters will attempt to swarm them on their return trip through their tunnels, I intend to only threaten the players with several sets of bounding, glowing eyes from the surrounding darkness, ghastly apparitions gibbering nonsense and other horrific indications that they are possibly surrounded as they journey in towards the wall they are to penetrate with the special solvent provided by the man who hired them.

Comments? Ideas? Rule discrepancies?

I like it - what kind of mix does your party have? Gun-bunny light parties might get overwhelmed fairly easily.

Ghouls, for the most part, are particularly bright enough to be impressed by suppressive fire - certainly not this new variant you're describing.

Additionally, considering the "bite" focus of this critter, I'd suggest playing up the "unnaturally elongated jaws of razored teeth - an unusual feature for the average ghoul strain".

-Siege

We have a very blasty human Dark Magic user, a Dwarven 'cleric' who is very handy with 'aura' spells, A chinese troll caster, a troll archer adept, yet a third troll smashem sammie, a human samurai (Gunbunny/backup decker variant), 2 twin elvin faces (The two girls who play with us, they earn most of their Karma by making out with eachother during our breaks, bless their hearts. ) , a decker, and a technomancer who serves as the group's rigger. Huge party, I know. I expect them to be in 2 vehicles, Step Vans I believe, unless the human sammy wants to get cute with his motorcycle he seems to insist on riding everywhere.

I am going to try and showcase the technomancer-rigger and who ever else has good driving skills during the first part, making drive rolls to maneuver through debris and the occasional ramming of the stray Rak-Ghoul. If players have silenced guns (Which I am hoping they will invest in just prior to a sneak and grab mission) they should have no trouble shooting off anything that gets close (Half the party is multi-initiative pass oriented anyway, including that troll wielding his portable ballistaesque bow)

I am in agreement with you that the suppressive fire will have little psychological effect, but it will be very mechanically effective for spraying the crowd of ghouls (Their group edge will only be around 2 or so), giving them a grand total of 7 dice to avoid biting a bullet.

The ghouls are going to be hesitant to enter the manna warp at the end of the tunnel, as their basic magical natures are offended and they lose all magical capabilities. They may trickle if only to give the riggermancer who I am sure is going to stay with the vans something to shoot at, some of them will attempt to sneak up and ambush the runners as they return, drumming up the action as they flee the alarm blaring facility with the case they came to get.

Its only upon their return that the ghouls will launch an assault when the vans attempt to navigate a particularly hazardous stretch of the tunnel just on the edge of the manna warp, effectively dampening the parties magic by just over half.

And I will increase/decrease the number of ghouls depending on how hard a time the players are having at it. If they are really owning the poor creatures then I will unveil a toxic shaman leader ghoul who will summon the fuck out of some toxic beast spirit (I was thinking of a huge mutated toad) to smash up the party some.

A brief addendum I'd like to add is the party is getting this run by the basis that they did some serious ghoul killing in the last run (Inspired by the Sega game) and all have some rep for it as they all wear necklaces of ghoul teeth trophies

Sorry, I am something of a long winded poster, but if you think its an decent scenario, and you are free to take whatever you like from it.

Oh man, this sounds like a wicked fun little surprise for the group. The mental imagery along makes me cackle.

Personally, just based on how some animals in the wild react to loud noises and flashes of light, I would think that suppressive fire would at least make them think twice about just running in on the group. That is not to say that the tunnels, being their habitat and all, would not have all sorts of little offshoots that they know like the backs of their gorillian hands and can swarm around the group, behind the fire so to speak.

One group of monkey ghouls coming from the front = good.
Two groups swarm flanking the group = righteous chaos.

Sounds more like a colony of trolls, possibly...what with reach and Immunity: Desperate Gun Fire.

Don't forget to apply penalties for poor lighting conditions...hearing penalties for the sound of gunfire in an enclosed area...the terror is in the details, after all.

Good hunt...err...luck...right...good luck!

-Siege

P.S. On a related thread, this is why I always bring the extra ammo.

Edit 1: And 50 meters of rope, but that's another story.

Well I can say that is different way to earn Karma.

It is a shame if your group does not have Full Auto Shotguns.

WMS

5 nuyen says they will after the next game session.

Probably stored in a glass case that reads "break in case of ghouls."

-Siege

P.S. Here's hoping they're not wearing more ghoul teeth around their neck...the hard way.

3+ Full Auto Shotguns firing flechettes against a unarmored target, there is that nice one in Arsenal, lets you fire suppressive fire with only 10 shots.

WMS

Obscure movie quote of the day:

Blue Monkey! Blue Monkey!!!

But otherwise, excellent idea. I particularly like the improved grapple aspect since there might be a situation where one of them is pinned down screaming "Kill it! Kill it!" while the others try to figure out if they can light up the ghoul without reducing their squishy friend to a paste.

I'd love full auto shotguns if it weren't for that damn "twice uncompensated recoil" caveat.

Gel rounds. Spray at the entangled mass of arms and limbs indiscriminately. Eventually, one of them will stop moving.

Twice uncompensated recoil is a pain, but let's face it - that's why you only use the bloody things in close quarters. Can you say 'cuisinart?' I knew you could.

-Siege

Edit 1: Don't forget blood splatter rules for all those grievous gunshot wounds at close quarters. These are the infected, after all.

And only a real SOB would give them infectious spittle, rather like the zombies in "30 days".

Sure, gel rounds or stick and shock but they gotta think about this and they have to perform the complex action to reload with something different (especially if they've been busy spraying full auto flechette everywhere). It makes for some amusing imagery

Damn, double post.

Mmmm... This is actually a good question, what modifiers do I apply for 'Target in a grapple'?
In combat is -2... Maybe I could home brew something up... Like in the case of SA or FA weapons, every '1' rolled counts as a hit on the unintended target? And for SS pistols and longarms a glitch would cause them both to be hit?
Perhaps some kind of 'scale' based on body attribute? Maybe just double the penalty to -4 dice?

I think the best idea would to give both targets no defence, -4 dice pool and a glitch indicates you hit them both, a critical glitch resulting in only hitting your unintended target because it mostly stays within the rules provided.

How does that sound?
Anyone heard any kind of errata on this?

Tunnels are where full auto and grenades really, truly come into their own. Flamethrowers are good for this, too.

The last time I fought a horde of ghouls was the first time I had a character almost run outta ammo. When you're carrying close to 700 rounds of ammo broken up between three different weapons, that's a serious ghoul infestation. A great deal of autofire was used, however.

I think we slowed down the last of the horde by rolling a gasoline-powered vehicle into the stairwell they were coming out of and hitting it with an LAW, and then just ran...

Mmmm, chunky salsa. A term that I have grown fond of over the years. Confined spaces, a couple well placed frags, and its all Rock n Roll. Provided you don't Murphy and get caught up in your own grenade that is. Fraggin' rule of one can really mess up an otherwise nice grenade lob.

This is why you actually spend karma to buy up your throwing ability rather than defaulting.

As a thematic thing I'd also be worried about over pentration. My players really like their APDS... That could be an issue. No rules for that but it might be worth throwing in a few resist "4P damage" to remind them to think before they shoot.

Well, penetration would work both ways (literally). If you start enforcing that rule, don't be surprised when your players demand that they be able to hit several ghouls in a row with a single shot.

A normal, now-a-days 9mm Parabellum bullet will go cleanly through a human torso (unless fired at extreme ranges) and still have enough energy left to kill a second human standing behind the first. Methinks in SR, bullet penetration was deliberately disregarded, so be careful you're not opening a can of worms there.

Oh, and for the Zerg-rush-Ghoul horde: way cool. I'll have to try that sometime...

Hm... true true, it might cause more trouble than it's worth. I just liked the idea of some pinned player screaming.

"Kill it! Kill it! OUCH!!?! KILL IT NOT ME! KILL IT NOT ME!!!"

Well, I think there's rules for shooting into Hand-to-Hand combat, not to mention for trying to shoot a ghoul pinning one of your own, and missing... So, you might get those screams after all.

Depending on how apelike you want to make them, I suggest falling from the roof ghouls...cause nothing will scare the piss out of you more than Zombie bombs. Of course, that may just be me

Whoa... let us not speak about drop... things in this thread. I already have nightmares about those damnable bears...

...Didn't you buy your Drop Bear repellent?

No seriously, the Ghouls from above is a really good idea, especially considering the darkness, their low body heat, and the area towards the corporate end of the tunnel being all manna warped, especially up towards the ceiling (Because its closer to the hibernating Cyberzombies) so the chance of them being detected would be small. I will see, if they are making easy meat of the ghouls already I will drop a couple on em from the ceiling, make them roll for surprise and everything as these huge Rak-Ghouls come unexpectedly dropping in on their heads!

Any other suggestions on firing into grapple rules?

In SR3, we've had a fan-made piece of gear named "Mossberg Iron Rain" - a minigun chambered for shotgun flechette rounds. Give it and a gyrostablisator to the troll, and use two more runners to carry the ammo, and it's raining on the ghoul parade.

These days, my group would most likely lob a couple of WP grenades at the mob, followed by some manaballs from the mage.

A flamethrower might be useful too. Or a mana barrier to stop the ghouls while the rest of the team shoots them down.

Alternatively, armored drones to tie the ghouls up, and then hose them down with flechette in a calibre that won't penetrate the drone armor.

I did but it smells suspiciously like eucalyptus leaves... Of course you assholes have made it so I can’t visit my parents in the year 2070. The area they live in is just lousy with 40 foot tall eucalyptus trees.

But yeah, drop monkey ghouls would be an awesome death from above. Make sure they used their dual nature to pick out those juicy uncybered mages….

Strangely enough, my SR3 group also used the Iron Rain. Or more appropriately, my character--the Minotaur--did. He only used it a few times, because it wasn't all that useful against armored-up targets, but when he did... I think the GM basically looked at my roll and decided which swathes of ghouls had been mowed down.

Don't forget to give extra Karma to any of the Runners who picks up a monowire chainsaw before going down into the sewers, because really, you know that the sewers are going to be full of ghouls.

I've got a character who drags one of those around anyways. The number of times it's come in handy (not even in close combat) has been kind of surprising. I'm trying to see if he can get a modular cyberarm with a weapon mount for the thing, so it's not banging around on his pack all the time...

The Auto-Assault 16 is a great weapon for hordes and hordes of zomb... ghouls. Drums are a little bulky and you blow through 'em real fast, but three passes worth of suppressive fire with a 9/+4 weapon against a bunch of guys in a tunnel with minimal to no armor is just beautiful.

And then anyone without Dampening gets to check for minor hearing damage

I'm a fan of the drop-ghoul tactic (death from above!), but would that be keeping in line with the near-animalistic intelligence you've described?

Chameleon-camo ghouls aka...the Bandersnatch was it? Ghouls crouching in piles of rocks as runners pass, only to spring from cover in mid-convoy.

If you change "local colony of infested trolls" to "local colony of infested trolls that are also periodically experimented on by the lab's bioweapon section"...

-Siege

Animals are pretty clever, especially as regards getting food. Heck, there are spiders that do stuff like that.

True - but if the critter has adopted a straight-forward "scream and leap" approach, without generations of "predator" coded into their genes, what are the odds they'll adapt techniques like this on the fly? And without the necessity to do so?

Cats are great skulkers, but they scream and leap with the best of them. But they've also been doing this, in one form or another, for a long time.

Don't let me dissuade you - I love the idea. But again, don't throw so much at your players they get buried in your enthusiasm.

-Siege

Read the whole thread about the Drop Bear and you will no longer be frigthened.

With regards to penetration of rounds and squishy targets (like a horde of ghouls... nice use of the kotor mutations, btw!), I know one of my players used to have a favorite line when firing their rifle.

"Are they in a line?"

*blam*

Three poor sods drop dead. GM sighs.

Didn't take long for the GM to start spreading those fraggers out a *lot*. Player started trying to get creative at that point though, trying to *find* 2 in a line to kill both at the same time. Was horribly amusing.

But those eyes... they BURN INTO MY MIND!!!

*runs screaming into the darkness*

As previously suggested, weaponized dire ghouls:
But with a twist! Originally designed with a "bioflame thrower" (stolen from other thread) but discontinued for whatever reason. Now you just have angry ghouls filled with flammable gasses and/or juice. Watch your PC's scream in horror as the shoot one and it promptly explodes.

That's kinda goofy, but it might be fun to mix just one of those in there

Though there's a distinct possibility that you'll go nuts in the attempt!

SANITY CHECK!

...Crap. That's bad, right.

Ayup. That's bad.

-Siege

It may appear so to the outside world. We know that we're enlightened.

3...2...1. *thump*

They always run into the woods.

Well the usual answer to Ghouls is to astrally project and screw with their dual nature. Though that does not appear to be very optimal in this situation. Also since you have a rigger and you can fit whatever vehicle you are driving down there from the way you are stating thing, use the vehicle have your mage types do the astral thing pop out of your wared truck and just dump spells on the bastards while the trucks LMGs take down the Ghouls.

*runs up the stairs to the second story... and than into the woods.*

*Thump! Thump! Thump!*

WHY ARE THERE SO MANY!?!

Because Aztlan likes it like that.