Our Shadowrun group is fairly large and as a result, things are getting drawn out, especially in combat (where 1 combat can take multiple sessions). This has become an issue of debate for the group on how we can make things quicker. I was wondering if anyone used any house rules/optional rules that help speed things up.

Thanks in advance.

Have the GM buy hits in combat. It means the GM doesn't often glitch, which is a little unfair, but it makes combat go much faster for the GM. Just remember to apply dice penalties and if the pool drops below 4 it's a failure or a Long Shot.

Make sure the init is tracked/written down in a place that everyone can see it, so players know exactly when their turn is coming up.

I have a few things I do here too: http://toreadorvampire.co.uk/rpg/shadowrun#CombatTimekeeping although they are really designed for an IRC (web chat) game, not a tabletop one. Might be able to get something useful from it though.

This is my #1 time-saver. I switch freely between this and rolling in order to control tension and pacing.

To be honest, SR4 combat is quicker than a sammy on MBW, that is, if everyone knows the process. It is really just roll and compare hits. Don't worry so much about calculating a DP from the stats for every goon, just dial up or down the DP to make it more or less challenging.

3-10 DP for Dodging
3-12 DP for Shooting (then subtract burst mods, etc.)

If the goons are tough, have them near the top of the range, if they aren't (or aren't taking full defense), then near the bottom.

1. I usually roll Initiative just once at the beginning of combat and keep that order until the end of the fight. If something big changes (i.e. the SWAT team arrives), I'll call for a reroll. I'll also let the players call for a reroll once per fight.

2. I usually have all mooks go on the same Action Phase.

3. I let the characters communicate via AR but I only let a player speak or send a message on his own turn. And then I usually limit it to one sentence in length (either spoken or text).

4. In the middle of combat, I give the players basic descriptions of things (i.e. you see three gangers in the distance carrying longarms of some sort) but if they want details (i.e. two men have combat shotguns, the third has an AK-98 with a GRENADE LAUNCHER!) I ask them to take Perceive in Detail actions.

How large is "fairly large?" In my experience any group that is much larger than 6 players is getting a bit unwieldy in SR. I prefer to have 3-4 players in the games I GM. I know it's hard to refuse people when they are there and wanting to play, tho' Everyone should be so blessed to have so many folks interested in playing a RPG!

I would suspect that there is a lot of side-talk going on, people aren't prepared to go when it's their turn and so forth. This is always an issue with larger groups. There are lots of little solutions:

1. Pre-roll NPC's inits. Personally, I just use one roll for all my grunts, then roll Lieutenants separately. I do keep track of damage as best as possible for it to affect order of them but don't worry if it's perfect.

2. Use a timer or set time allowance. If the players are over-planning, stop them. If they need to plan an attack and after you have given all the particulars, say "Okay, you have 20 minutes. Plan away. I'll be in the kitchen making my sandwich. Feel free to come ask me for particular questions."

3. When it is a person's pass, ask them their statement and expect them to answer quickly. If it's the beginning of a combat be a little lax, but if it's round 3, they should know what they are going to do. If it's a mage with a spell, force the character to have actual spell books with the description of each spell and all the extra's needed for it listed out on a few pages. This saves a lot of time with the book lookin'. (Same goes for summoning spirits) If a character isn't able to make their turn in under a minute (be reasonable, sometimes questions do need to be asked,) then tell them they are deferring and move to the next guy. Come back to them at the end of the round.

4. Don't let other players have input on a character's actions. In a fire fight, make each person do his thing on his own. Shush anyone that tries to interfere or suggest. PC play is NOT by committee. The player's actions are the result of his understanding of the same input that every single person got from the GM. Also frown on too much conversation by the other players while one person is making a go. This dramatically speeds up play, usually. Be fair and announce prior to the game that this is the new rule of the land, tho' so no one feels you are being unfair jsut to them all at once.


5. If the characters are jsut dilly-dallying around, do not hesitate to toss a really pissy "random" encounter at them. Since they are already delaying the game, annoying hteir GM and probably at least a few of the other players, at least the bored people get to do something.

6. If the number of players is REALLY too large, it might be time to break the group down into 2 smaller groups. Find one person that wants to be a secondary GM and have them run a separate game. Maybe not all the time. Maybe sometimes have a larger mingling and sometimes have two different runs going sorta concurrently. Let players mingle back and forth over different sessions. They are all runners, independent contractors and aren't even all necessarily needed for each run. In some instances this might work, in some it wouldn't. Just something to consider.



Personally I see most games taking too long because of a combination of two things: a lax (or green) GM and unfocused players. It's the GM's responsibility to make the players toe the line, keep the game poppin' and for everyone to have fun. If it's one guy, then you have to figure out how to improve him or cut him loose. If it's a group thing, then you need to look at yourself as a GM. You have to change the game. Odds are, people are bored. It's never easy tho', as many (if not most) people playing are friends outside of the game. GMing is a lot harder than jsut knowing the rules and having good ideas for a game. You have to be a skilled diplomat, exceedingly fair, a great researcher, and flexible-yet strong as hell.

Vlad

A few things:

- Teach your players the rules. If they know what DP applies and how to calculate it they can be ready to roll BEFORE their turn comes up.
- Use some of the various fan-generated character sheets that have a space for pre-calculated DPs listed for each skill. You and your players can simply glance down and know what they are working with.
- Before the combat kicks off (i.e. right after rolling the first initiative or surprise) take a minute to calculate any environmental modifiers that will apply to everyone equally (weather, lighting, etc) and announce this "ambient DP modifier" to everyone so they can deduct it from their pools as they go. Maybe write it on a post it note and stick it to the table or your screen if you use one.

Good character sheets and learning the rules as Method mention are key. If you have a truly epic number of players I'd also suggest using abbreviated rules (some good examples are in the BBB) to keep the game going, but that's a personal preference.

Pre Rolling Perception/Init etc. Not all players like this and pre rolling init bugs me but, it does speed things up dramatically. I particularly like pre rolling perception when I know that players are going to making checks (open or not) ever 10 minutes in a game.

Fiend Folio. Sit down for a couple of hours and pound out some generic NPC's (or tailors the ones in the BBB) that way when players decide to tangent off somewhere you don't have to futz around with throwing on together on the fly.

Things on notecards. Put a whole squad of goons on a notecard and use it to track damage and what not, use pencil and recycle. I'm too lazy to do this habitually but when I've done it it has sped things up significantly.

I play fast and loose with rules when they'd only serve to bog down gameplay and keep players from getting to what they have fun doing (that of course varies from group to group). I've basically eliminated random encounters except as flavor text because no ones really interested in spending 30 minutes working out how badly they kick the shit out of some gangers.

I've also mentioned a mini-Gm. I've rarely seen it done right but if you get an experienced player who knows the rules it can really speed things up to have him manage a lot of the dice rolling and book keeping while you set the scene, draw diagrams, or RP with players.

As someone mentioned earlier, there is such thing as "too many players" and if it just isn't working you need to know when to break up the group into manageable parts.

Agree with method on all points and

An often overlooked, but obvious tool is to watch the room and try to judge your players reactions to IC events and look out for anyone looking uninterested etc and tailor the situation on the fly to try and keep people interested. This is particularly true with large groups as trying to give everyone enough attention and keep 'em happy is a task in itself before you even start looking at running a game and bored players (if you have them) slow down games by not following planning/initiative sequences etc. Try to draw them back in and the game should speed up. If it's a persistent issue, have a word with them outside the game about what they're looking for from the game and what would get them more involved, take it on board and balance it with your other players wants. I've seen it work but YMMV.

Also, be carefully with your hackers/mages/riggers. They can get bored and inattentive if unable to do their things but going matrix operations almost excludes the rest of the team from the game while an often lengthy and rules-heavy sub-run takes place. Astral is vaguely similar, but with the added bonus of cutting off communications and a rigger left unpoliced can spend 5 minutes to describe exactly what they want their horde to do in a pass down to the smallest detail whilst you try to explain why thats not possible. IMHO its these archetypes that can cause the largest difficulties for GMs of large groups, but I can't claim to be a fount of knowledge on the subject having run few games with 6+ players.

Leofski brings up a good point about bored players.

I've found that one way to keep a large group engaged is to design runs with multiple objectives and an increasing payment scale based on how many objects the team can complete. For example, instead of a simple run to steal a prototype the team is hired to steal the prototype, extract the lead researcher, kill his partner and wipe all the research data from a "cold storage" system. If the team wants to accomplish all these goals they pretty much have to break up into smaller teams, which means everyone has a job to do and can take part in the action.

To add a few ideas to what's been said:

* If you have a computer near you when gaming you can use some programs to help you. I'm sure there are some programs to track NPC, roll init and so on.
* If there are a lot of opponents shooting at the players, don't bother rolling for everyone. Just consider this as a suppressive fire, except that if someone gets hit, he'll get much more damage.
* Maybe it's not necessary to play all combat scenes. The same way you can deal with a social encounter with just a few dice roll instead of roleplaying the whole discussion, you can solve a simple and uninteresting combat with just a few rolls instead of playing the whole combat.

What I use:

I don't roll damage resistance tests if it's not crucial. Mooks only get rolls if they have a chance to survive a hit, and there's nothing else going on. If the big focus is the fight against the cyberzombie and its mage backup, then the 4 sec guards that were caught between the runners and the opposition get narrated fates. If a sammie rolls 6 hits each for his double-SMG greeting of a clerk I don't roll, I describe the mess. If a WP grenade goes off in the middle of a rent-a-cop squad I don't make individual damage resistance checks, I eyeball it (and have the survivors, if any, most like break and run).

Same for NPCs facing NPCs - I narrate that stuff, basing it on how well the PCs fare.

If a scene is not crucial (like a barfight, or the runners shaking down a few mooks), I often just have each player roll once, and then describe the scene accodring to how well the roll was.

In my experience, that is the most important point of all. No discussion. Players that lack experience get to make mistakes, the GM distributes "fair warning".

I despise players who talk amongst each other in combat. Do not repeat descriptions without the person in question spending an action on perception.

The shortcuts Fuchs is talking about are great for fast-paced chaotic scenarios with large groups of combatants.

Keep in mind the professional rating of the opposition, and remember that unless they are Elite (or happen to be fighting for a cause they are willing to die for), most groups will be trying to bug out after a round or two.

You could similarly house rule that individual goons will break off the fight after a certain number of boxes are filled (professional rating x 2 seems to work well). Using this system, most 400+ BP PCs can reliably dish out enough damage in a single action to put a mook with a low professional rating out of the fight (never mind an optimized spell slinger or gun bunny). If the PC gets a decent roll you can safely assume the mook is done and summarily describe his fate (which usually entails whimpering and crawling for the nearest exit).

At that point the main purpose of rolling is to check for glitches, which make for more exciting combat anyway.

My last gaming session had the players facing off against 30 ghouls and bargests, as well as summoned spirits and the elite mage in charge of the whole baddy group.
What I did was roll all the body tests in advance, I rolled about 40-50 for each different body statistic (ghouls, bargests). I sunbrtacted 3 from the result when they were hit with AP rounds (so the 5 succesees became 3).

It worked very well, and I was able to take the time to add flourishes and details to the combat to make it more exciting and interesting.
I highly recomend it, I'm doing in from now on in all big fights that I plan. I am thinking rolling all the npc hits in advance too, like the Street Sam's sword strikes and gun shots.

I use the alternate combat rule on page 69 of the main rule book ("Tweaking the Rules") whereby armor subtracts directly from the weapon's modified DV instead of having to roll armor+body... Not only does this speed up combat dramatically, but it makes armor actually do what it is designed to do - protect the person wearing it. It also makes APDS rounds, aiming for vitals and burst fire more important to take down one's opponents. It is also a bit more realistic that the Body attribute doesn't help deflect bullets... How can a person's level of fitness stop a bullet anyway?!?!???

It works great and everyone likes it.

For large groups, you also should start making use of the characters as 'assist' GM's. If a player is unconscious or not in the combat for some reason (ie. a non-fighter decker hiding in a car outside), use them. Let them control bad guys, have them track initiative and inform players "who goes now", and "hey, you're next".

It's been mentioned, but "noticing" every detail in combat is unrealistic. If people haven't been paying attention and don't know what has happened in the last four people's turn, tell them very vague answers like, "gun fire and screams are heard from your left, while a smoke grenade goes off in the middle of the room" If they want more details, or want to look for the best target that is still up, they have to waste a simple looking.

SR is fairly fast, but some ideas for larger groups or slowpokes who drag the game.

Seat the players in order of initiative. Consider not rolling, just use the base number to speed stuff.

Draw out the situation on a white board in broad outline. Describe what the players see. answer questions now, if they wait until their action they need to spend an action to observe closely.

The dramatic tactical approach of giving the players 5 seconds to tell you what they are doing works. Start out and ask all the players what they are planning to do at the start of the IP. If they don't respond, the character is as indecisive and confused as the player. When it's there turn to act they can do what they said, or they can abort to run back to cover or freeze, they can't change it.

If they player can't describe their action in 5 seconds it's too complex for one IP.

(The GM needs to be just as fast too, and not cheat much)

So there is a lot of advantage to saying "I'll engage a target of opportunity", rather then "I run across the hall and through the door turn and shoot the security guard". Because the other guy in that room that you didn't see will shoot you and you can't choose to shoot him if you are already planning on shooting someone else.

When their init comes they do it. Again, they need to say exactly what they are doing. If they want to shoot two shots they need to define the targets before they shoot the first shot. If they want to delay until something happens, as in "The sniper will shoot anyone coming out the door" they need to say something (unless the GM remembers) when the triggering event happens after their init, otherwise they don't take the shoot. If they are covering let them remain ready to shoot from IP to IP and turn to turn until they take the shot.

Roll all the dice at once, GM and player. Success, drain, etc. Use different color dice with numbers or pips that have high contrast so everyone can see and count. If it falls off the table it's automatically not a success.