I know that conceal is a P power. But I think I greatly prefer it as an M power. First, this would keep stealth mages from completely hosing all unmanned cameras. Second it would be something to counter the 2xF that all spirits have to spot people on the astral making astral intrusion much more viable. Pull it wouldn't be that much more of stretch to think it would apply as a "vision mod" to ritual spell casting and the search power. Is there a balance issue I am missing or does swapping out that one letter fix a lot?

It is my personal opinion (and only an opinion) that concealment, invisibility, and infiltration do not work on the astral plane. Why? Because you are alive, and if you yourself are astral, you will glow, as will the spirit concealing you or the invisibility spell you cast on yourself. This is just the way things work.

If you were to allow concealment on the astral plane, it would allow almost perfect infiltration (Improved Invis on physical, Conceal on astral). This is not necessarily better in my book. The reality of the astral plane being completely open to both parties is the way it is balanced. Sure it means shit hits the fan much sooner on a run (if you are relying on magic to infiltrate), but that doesn't mean it is a problem. Try to do the run another way.

With you on the living things glowing on the astral like the book says they do. I think people are confusing peoples aura only extending inches past the skin with the "light" from that aura extending out about the inverse square. I do think that if you have any magical background you could still use infiltration. I'm not sure if you caught me saying this else where, but i like to think of it as having a flare taped to your head. Sure it's still possable to hide, but oh there will be minuses.

But as it stands I think that astral detection is so strong that minimal magical surveillance means a 100% stealth plan isn't an option. And if you have zero magical support for the target they're toast plan an simple.

Actually, the reason invisibility does not work on the Astral plane is that it specifically says in its description that it doesn't. Other mana based illusions do work.

As for Concealment being mana based though, I don't like it. I think it would upset the balance between mundane and magical stealth. Currently, the Astral is the great equalizer. Whether you're a sneaky sammie in a chameleon suit, or a mage with Invisibility and Stealth, its just your Infiltration pool against the enemy's Assensing pool on the astral. If you make Conealment mana based, it kinda makes spirits obligatory for stealth, mages are so much better that mundanes might as well not bother...

Of course, spirits don't have the infiltration skill, do they? So wouldn't Concealment hide the team, but leave a big fat spirit floating around in plain sight? So maybe it doesn't much matter one way or the other. Even if they conceal you, spirits kind of blow your cover astrally. I guess your fix would primarily be bad because it just wouldn't work. If the idea is to make astral stealth easier, having a spirit out is not going to achieve that

I have no problem with the use of Infiltration on the Astral. The Astral is full of other living Auras, shadowy things to hide behind. Hell, even the Earth itself gives of a glow, which could be used by a skilled Astral stealth expert.

It is so amusing how people always remember that auras glow, but forget that the earth is a huge aura by itself, overshadowing (kind of. you get my meaning) everything else. Seeing an aura in the astral space is not like spotting a torch at night, it's more like seeing a flashlight on a bright day.

Hmmm, I guess I can see what you are getting at. I am now wondering how Astral infiltration would vary from normal infiltration. If you have to take a -2DP to one or the other or if infiltration skill always takes the astral into account.

There is also the difference between those things astrally present and those on the physical plane. When on the physical plane, it would probably be okay to allow infiltration since they are not a "bright". However, a dual natured entity is specifically obvious on astral and would have a much harder time (-4, -6, or just impossible?)

Unless the spirit conceals itself and the team. With a team of 4, a force 5 spirit to conceal itself and the team isn't too hard to come by.

Since you only see one at the time and can never be sure that, if you're hidden astral the same cover will hide you in real space, the -2DP should be applied. Or at least that is how I would do it.

The way I look at it is that while the Earth projects it's own aura, it's constant, and those perceiving learn to filter it out and recognize the bright concentrations of life moving around in the general aura of the planet. Not to mention in places of background count due to ubanization, lack of trees, deadlands, etc, a lifeform will show up easier due to the overall dampening of the earthsphere aura in that one area. Similar to how cyberware will create dead or dull spots in a person's aura (fluff statement!).

I do think that concealment should work erverywhere, but it does not make people impossible to detect all it does is minus the spirits force from the observers perception dice. If you are using a force 5 spirit you take 5 dice from the observers perception roll. If the person percieving has a perception of 3 with a spec in Visual and intuition of 3 and enhanced perception 2 from cybereyes he still has 5 dice to detect a person. The same goes for astral. It really works best with characters that already have a decent infiltration.

R-Caine

The spirit doing the concealment does not have to be in LOS after using its power. Leave it at home, as long as it doesn't leave Earth and you do not pass barriers it'll work.