So I ran my first astral combat and everyone went home pissed off (and we never finished up the combat at the table). So some questions.

1. Can someone cast while in astral combat?
2. If they can cast do they do it with any modifiers (provided they are uninjured)?
3. If you're engaged in astral combat and try to break away, how do you handle that? It either seems incredibly easy to run away or almost impossible.
4. Does comitting cold blooded murder taint your astral signature at all?

1. Yup.
2. Modifiers just like any other combat situation. Think melee here.
3. Again, think melee. If you are faster, you can get away. If not, you get it in the back.
4. Not really. Why should it? Or to put it this way: Mana and all that astral aura signature stuff is affected primarily by emotion. Cold blooded murder excludes emotion.

The problem with astral movement is when you use the 'high speed' version that says it is difficult to navigate, can you effectively chase someone?

First: Is it astral forms, or dual natured forms, or a mix of both?

1: Yes. If they are astral or dual natured they can cast mana spells at other astral or dual natured creatures.

2: No modifiers besides visibility. (Remember, astral visibility, not physical).

3: The same as regular combat. Check the interception rules on p151 SR4.

4: Nope. Barring it being the cause of an emotional impresson (in the assensing table at 5+ hits).

1. Yes. But only mana spells work on the Atral.

2. Visual modifiers for lighting, glare, etc. that apply on the physical plane to not apply on the astral. But other modifiers do, mostly based on how many life forms there are; see Street Magic.

3. Astral combat works just like melee combat. If you try to disengage, the enemy can interrupt with a free action to do an Intercept attack on you.

4. It might, but there's no explicit rule on that. If someone got 4-5 hits on the astral perception test, they might be able to get that kind of information; or if it was always on your mind it would be easy to detect.

Thanks for all the info, I'm glad I didn't completely cock up the rules by saying "Casting in combat isn't easy".

So astral sigs are all about emotion, if the player killed the NPC in a fit of rage it would leave a stain on his sig right? But that'd still be info that's only avail on a 4-5 hit assensing test?

Taking a closer look at the table, I think you can only get current emotional impressions. 5+ hits tells you the reason for a current emotional impression. So if someone is nostalgic, and you got 5+ hits, you might learn that they're nostalgic about the time they killed a bunch of people. Or if they're depressed, you might learn with 5+ successes that it's because they're sorry about the people they've killed. But there's no permanent stain, you only read the emotions that they're currently feeling in their aura.

If you wanted to find out whether someone has killed, the way to do it would be with a Mind Probe spell. With 3-4 net hits on Mind Probe, you can sort through someone's memories; you can bet you'd be able to view the times they've killed people (that they remember). With 5+ nets, you'd be able to find out things they don't even consciously know about...

I think the idea about murder leaving a stain on the aura is kinda Harry Potter esque. Or maybe D&D-ish, to be more charitable. D&D is a moral absolutist game. There is good and evil, manifested by gods and supernatural creatures. Cold blooded murder is an evil act in D&D that could plausibly have a metaphysical impact on your soul. But in Shadowrun, there is no good and evil. Murder is morally wrong according to most people, but morals do not have an actual metaphysical presence in Shadowrun canon. The Astral doesn't know whether you do good things or bad things. It knows between positive and negative emotions (and background counts will reflect this) but it doesn't judge you. In Shadowrun, cold blooded murder isn't a metaphysically evil act. And morally, you might be justified -- if you murdered an innocent to save a thousand people, is that evil? Some people would say no. And the Astral doesn't care one way or the other.

Also, the mark that's left by a murder already makes an impression, per canon. But it isn't on your own aura. Murders leave impressions on the Astral itself, in the form of background counts. Most murder scenes will have a background count of at least 1 because of the emotional resonance of someone dying, and of either a) the rage of someone provoked into murder or b) the uncommonly cold resolve of someone doing the deed. So instead of staining your aura, they stain the location where you did it.

Hmm, clarification please.

Most the answers for #2 didn't address casting in astral combat vs. astral combat skill in astral combat.

My take has always been: Astral combat skill = melee for all intents and purposes. However, if a caster were to use spells then it can be at range just like the physical world.

ie: Astral mage 1 is in astral combat (melee) with a spirit. Astral mage 2 can be at range and cast vs. Astral mage 1.
Now, if Astral mage 1 was smart he would attempt to dodge the spirit or get ride of it quick in order to address the larger threat. As far as how do you stay at range? If Astral mage 1 is faster, then astral mage 2 cant really. Unless he zooms out at high speed then back in the next IP to snipe again.

Where this becomes really bad is when a dual natured creature or Phys Ad with astral perception active is doing their thing. Astral Mage has free reign to snipe at leisure, at least until the target is no-longer astrally active.

Well, up until this point, the player has run a character that's a total moral nutjob. In fact up until now he hasn't killed anyone directly and he certainly hasn't gone out of his way to hunt someone down and kill them soul to soul in astral combat.

Now if astral space is all about emotions and so forth it seems to me that a person who is not used to killing who suddenly decides to go out and choke the life out of another sentient creature, that's going to effect him emotionally and thus, at least temporarily, effect his astral signature. When I said "in cold blood" I misspoke since this murder was anything but some sort of cool professional offing. This wasn't some security guard who was shooting at him, or some ganger trying to blow up his car, this was a guy tending his roof top garden.

Hmm... didn't realize that murder would mess up astral space. Good to know.

I think you have it right, what clarification do you need now? >.>

As for an astral form sniping with spells from the sky against an astrally active opponent, the astrally active opponent just has to hide under something and the flying astral mage will no longer have an LoS on him.



I think your messed up character's aura would be pretty messed up, because he will be full of messed up emotional impressions. I dunno if Assensing would reveal exactly what he's done (not without 5+ successes), but it might reveal the crazy shit going on in his head.

Ok, that whole "murder messes stuff up" thing is going in an awkward direction.

Yes, murder can mess up astral space. But it has to happen very violently, meaning a lot of emotions of both victim(s) and assailant need to "happen" during the act. Passion, hatred, despair, whatever. That kind of background count will disperse soon after.
Or, the murder(s) need to take place over a prolonged time, in which case the emotional taint is more durable, so to speak. Think serial killer bringing his victims to the same place, doing his thing OR maybe a warzone (small village, a specific part of the border between warring states, a gangwar going on in the same block, etc.) that is fought in for quite some time with a lot of casulties

There is no cosmic punishment for murder. If you kill someone, your aura does not show a telltale or anything in that kind because of the murder. BUT, if you killed someone and for example guilt kicks in, that will show in your aura and a very skilled aura reader might be able get a generel hint what you feel guilty about.

I think you should read the Astral Space chapter in Street Magic. It has some good info on background count that might give you an idea how emotions effect astral stuff.

So you all don't think that killing someone in astral combat immediately makes it emotionally charged? I can't think of a more personal way of ending someones life, after all you're using nothing more than sheer force of will to kill someone. I can see if you kill someone in a random drive by, that might not leave much of a mark, or even a regular shooting.

But no, I don't think the act of killing immediately taints a character because it's some sort of "Harry Potter" cosmic justice. I think murder taints a character because using your will to rip apart another soul is not a normal event for most characters. Particularly if they're untrained in astral combat and it was a messy drawn out affair. Now if you're some highly trained astral assasin, sure, I bet you're used to it and even a trained assenser might have a hard time picking up the scent. But if you're some wet behind the ears former corps shaman who hasn't ever killed anyone, that might affect you, a lot.

I have no problem with the idea of 'emotional turmoil' being visible in a person's aura. I just don't think it would be any more 'dramatic' or 'intense' when a murder is done via the Astral as opposed to say, slitting the victim's throat, or manabolting his ass, or placing a bomb in his Westwind.

Astral Combat is not very personal. It's abstract at best, actually.

That would make a good minor disadvantage though. 'Guilty Aura'.
You feel constantly guilty of your past transgressions so much all the time that they always manifest in your aura.
Good disadvantage for Born Again Christians (Or whoever) who would say that there is indeed a cosmic punishment for murder!

*shrugs*
Eh well I guess I have a different interpretation.

Good for you

I don't think that you will notice murder specifically in the aura. No SR book I've ever read has condemned murder or talked about the spiritual repercussions (just the Lone Star). I think the auras of most shadowrunners would be really cold, if you know what I mean. You might get the feeling that they could kill, and that they have no concern for life. I'd only use this for special occasions though, as most people in the 2070 are cold and could care less about other people. Afterall, I think 95% of the ammo available to us being lethal reflects the kind of society that exists in 2070.