I've never played an Apedt before, so I thought I'd try my hand at an Adept Sniper. What I came up with was the sterotypical socially inpet loner who's more comfortable with their gun than people. What suprised me was I came out with a Net dice pool of 24 for his Long Arms skill (Att 9 + Skill 7 +2 Specialization +2 Smartgun +4 Adept Power). That seemed a bit high for a starting character and I was wondering if I had done something wrong.




-NR

Have you considered fiddling around with your qualities in order to get rid of Exceptional Attribute and Uncouth in favor of being an Elf and taking a couple 10 point flaws? It'd cost you 10 more build points in the long run, but in exchange you'd hit 3 charisma and wouldn't be so hopeless socially after you've gotten a few runs under your belt and purchased Influence or Etiquette via karma. You could easily afford it by dropping Outdoors a point or by dropping both Pistols & Blades-- which wouldn't be so bad, actually, since you'd still have 8 dice to throw into pistol/knife attacks via defaulting to your ridiculously high agility anyway. The only problem there'd be the fact that it'd really hurt your melee defense pool unless you go on full Gymnastic Dodge vs. melee. That might not be such a crippling thing though-- your character is rather likely to get punched in the face no matter what happens thanks to that vanilla reaction pool anyway.

Well, I would personally give up some of that massive Sniper DP and be a bit more generalized, but whatever you want. Some things to note:

• Improved Ability adept power is limited to 3 levels (10max skill)
• Your attributes are LOW! I would just go with elf, genetech, muscle toner, and 1 level of attribute boost (agility)
• Seriously consider giving up Exceptional Attribute, it is really not worth it.
• Why the Enhanced Perception? It is awesome, but I'd rather have Enhanced Sense (Vision Magnification)
• I would only soft cap agility, it is very inefficient to go higher.
• Keep the survival group, fits the character well and not taken enough

Adepts are really fun, to play. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do.

Okay, I dont understand the dogging on Exceptional Attribute.

I mean, if you are going to go with your racial max for the stat anyway, taking that plus what would normally be your max point costs 30. That means you can still raise it by one more via Karma, and you've only paid 5 more BP. If you are going to focus on it anyway, given this is a specialized character in the first place, that is how I would do it, and how I did it one more than one experimental character.

...hokay...

First off: I would take one level of Synaptic Boosting instead of the Cyber and as he only has 1 IP. He can get all of the vision & audio mods as external gear at both a savings in nuyen and essence.

Second: I would never play a combat based adept with anything less than a 4 Body as it affects how much armour the character can wear.

Third: I agree with nathanross on the Exceptional Attribute. There are less expensive ways to boost his Shooting DPs
Fouruth, As above, I feel the same about Expertise.

Fourth: Unless the campaign he is in involves a lot of back country action, I'd drop the Outdoors group & use the BPs to boost some of his more relevant skills and/or skill groups (particularly the Stealth Group as this is very important to his profession).

Fifth: Since he cannot take the 4th level in Improved Ability Longarms I'd use that .5PP for 2 levels Improved Ability in Infiltration of Shadowing.

Sixth: I agree with Whipstitch on the Uncouth if he's going to deal with getting jobs, dump it and get some social skills & atleast a Charisma of 2. Otherwise he'd be the best gun "not for hire" If he dumps the cyber he can then take Sensitive System & an allergy or some other combo to make up the BPs.

Seventh: If you changed metatype, I'd go with Ork for race as if gives him a base of 4 for Body and 3 For Strength for only 20BPs. He only takes a hit on Charisma and Logic caps.

...if he has the Essence left, I'd consider Synthcardium II as it adds it's rating x dice to all Athletics DPs.

For weapon, I'd go with the Ares Desert Strike. Better initial punching power (8 DV vs. 7 for the Enforcer) costs less nuyen, has same AP and you are only going to need 1 RC anyway as it is you aren't firing in burst mode. If he's a sniper he is used to taking time and sizing up his target so manually changing clips from one ammo type to another really isn't an issue

...oh, and unless the GM has hand waved the chargen availability cap, he can't start with APDS.

20BP is nothing to stub your nose at. 1DP for 20BP for the possibility of 1DP is stupid. He has a big enough DP just from Improved ability and Aptitude, he does not need another point of agility that much. It is just a recommendation.

Wow, I took your guys advice and went back ot the drawing board. Between my dislike for Elves and their high BP, I'd initally discounted them, but using one, I was able to get essentially the same character but without the crippling level of social ineptitude.


The revised version



-NR

...I'd still think about that Initiative. He's not always going to be hiding on a clock tower or in a window of an unoccupied building.

Also reducing the stealth group is severely weakening the character as Shadowing (the ability to tail someone & hide) & Disguise (actually fairly useful for a sniper) are Intuition & not Agility based. Right now he only has a DP of 6 in each.

Also, I believe that the Improved Ability cap is based on the general skill level as Specialistion only adds bonus dice & does not increase the individual skill rating (as it did in previous editions) so he would still only be able start with the maximum of 3 levels.

Personally, I'd still go with the Ork for you wouldn't have to put any BPs into Body & Strength (saving you 40) and get 10 extra BPs back on the metatype cost to boot (that could go back into his Agility). Then put 20 from what was saved on the physical attributes into his Charisma and you'd still be 20 bps ahead (which could go into his Stealth group).

...just a couple suggestions for PC survivability.

I noticed you took the Ork Poser negative quality. Part of the character, im guessing, or do you think orks are cool yourself, or is it a little bit of A and B? If it's more B, then perhaps Ork would indeed be a good way to go. I REALLY try not to fall into the ''Orks are Better!'' cheerleader squad...but oh, who am I kidding, i do alot of the time. Especially when it comes to more non-combat characters of all things.

Otherwise the second version is indeed better. You might even be able to drop Logic to 2 and add it to something else.

Enhanced Articulation does not aid any Combat Skills ie Long Arms, yes it will add 1 die to all Athletics Tests.

IIRC Improved Ability Long Arms is capped at 1.5 the rating of Long Arms not the Specialization of Long Arms ie it should be Improved Ability: Long Arms 3.

If this character is a sneaker mainly then drop Stealth group and take Infiltration.

With the limited skill in Perception even with the Adept ability adds, means that you will not see much.

WMS

Agility 6( is sufficient for your purposes. The points could well go to Intuition and Reaction.

You do not need to be the perfect sniper, especially not at the cost of ever other ability. Try to make do with Rifles 4 and no Improved Rifles Power.

Low Pain Threshold can be painful, unless you have a soft GM. Our chars bleed, regardless of the game system.

Your skills offers little screen time. Your chars role is very narrow, excluding you from everything but supporting the final assault. Which is actually done by others.

Take general stat boni over the enhanced articulation. Better strength helps athletics DPs, and you should really have Synthacardium. Consider to specialise in climbing somewhat. Getting into places is important for an sniper. My GF played a mobility adept with a sniper rifle, it worked well. Which books do you have available?

This comes from the errata, in case you're confused by people telling you all about a crazy rule that isn't in the BBB

Anyway, you have too many longarms dice. You'd save a boatload of points by just knocking your agility down by 1. Other than that, your only real problem is you have no initiative boost. Your character can only do one thing: snipe. If the enemies close the blinds and get down, you are a useless lil snipey boy. Especially since you don't even have a pistol or a melee combat skill for when rifles aren't appropriate.

You don't need a million billion dice when sniping people because you almost always going to have them at an extreme disadvantage. So I agree with the others, I'd drop a point of agility and diversify. Synaptic 1 or 2 is probably essential, and the datajack and the cybereyes is stuff you don't need.

ok, one more iteration. A revision of the basic concept with a smaller DP and more of a focus on concelability in urban environments. I think 21 DP should be sufficient for the more difficult shots, and 17 DP in Infil is nice. My only real concern is having to rely on external optics.



-NR

...in agreement with Cthulhudreams on the mega DP. For example I find the Short One gets along just fine with a DP of 11 when using her Warhawks & that's in firefights where she doesn't have time to set and aim (though she does have laser sights on them for that purpose). Usually she gets 3 - 4 hits which, since she is using EXEX, is is more than sufficient to put someone in a world of hurt even if they get a hit or two on their dodge. Shooting in alternating fashion (she has the Ambidexterity quality), she can, and has, put many opponents down in one IP.

Using the Ares Desert Strike (instead of the Enforcer) & EXEX your sniper adept would have a base DV of 9 with an AP of -4. That is pretty nasty. Add 4 Net hits on that and your opponent is shaking down 13 DV with 4 less dice to his soak pool. Kill capability is more important than ammo capacity, Sniper rifles are designed to take a target down with one to two shots, hence they sacrifice ammo capacity for accuracy, range, and power (my 2nd ed character Jill used an old Walther, 2100 which back then I believe had an 8 shot magazine instead of a clip, & notched quite a few kills with it). Furthermore, concealing yourself well (Shadowing) can also give you the advantage of surprise which takes away a target's chance to make a dodge check. So again a huge DP is not all that necessary, especially if your character takes time to aim (which most good snipers do).

Did they change something with an erratta? My version of the main book lists concealing yourself under Disguise with Shadowing being the skill of following unnoticed or detecting those trying to Shadow you.

-NR

Looks much improved.

Do not let those here brow beat you into their POV on initiative/combat.

Seems most here feel if any character does not have at least 2+ IPs they are slackers.

Also that if you can not deal with every type of combat situation again that character is a slacker.

By not having the maximum munchkin weapon for each skill makes you a slacker.

One note if you have less than the desired here rating in initiatives, that means you will have to play your adept much smarter with the rest of your party.

From what I have read what you have posted it seems you attempting to play a concept/idea for this adept.

I as a GM would much rather have a gimped slacker character than a uber munchkin character.

Game On

WMS

You're a slacker for not having 2+ IP. However, looks good otherwise.

Yeah, much improved. No longer crippled socially, and decent at stealth as well as longarms.

Again, though, the maximum modified rating for a skill is the skill rating x 1.5, so you can't have improved ability: 3 and a reflex recorder for long arms.

As far as the IP go, a sniper type really doesn't use them as much. They would be good for a character involved in combat outside of a sniping role, but you don't really have any skills for that (no small arms, no close combat), so you don't really need them. On the other hand, a short-barreled Defiance T-250 could be hidden under a long coat, and let you participate in combat outside of a sniping role. But that is where an extra IP or so could make a huge difference.

I agree with WearzManySkins that having a character that you like is more important than being completely optimized in every way. But it also needs to be a character who can fit in the game world well. My main concern is that you have specialized in what is a very niche role, and you might wind up spending large chunks of a game with nothing to do. He could develop into a B&E specialist.. eventually, with a few more skills and/or gadgets. Until then, though, his role will be pretty limited.

To be honest, i was pretty much assuming that he was going to get a sawn off shottie to have something to do when sniping was not required.

To make it explict: As you don;t have pistols or automatics to give the traditional concealable fallback weapons, you need to think with portals creatively to find weapons to help you in non sniping combat roles. A shottie modified for concealableness and a long coat at all times will contribute greatly to this goal.

You're also 6 BP away from dropping your specialization in infiltration and picking up the entire stealth group at R4. This would actually give your character quite a few additional tricks and I'd recommend it highly. I'd be seriously tempted to drop logic and body by 1 each and pick up the stealth group and the influence skill group leaving you with 8 BP to spend.

That puts you much closer to being a well rounded covert ops specialist as a secondary capability though you'll have a tough time with doors.

I'd then spend the remaining 8 BP, and scrap the remaining two specializations on picking up exotic weapons (melee) R3 - if your GM insists you have to nominate AN exotic weapon (the rules are less than clear about this) then get a monowhip. That gives you another shtick - the ability to walk a very dangerous weapon into confined spaces.

edit: the reason to scrap all the specalisations is it gives you a meaningful sense of advancement in game - you'll get two extra dice in a couple of key areas in your first 1-2 adventures, and its also much more efficient to buy specializations with karma after the game starts.

After picking that up, if I was thinking long term advancement, I'd focus on developing my charisma and social talents from magic, then you'd have a couple of schticks - a smooth talking infiltrator who can talk or sneak his way into my occasions, and can lay down devastating covering fire from concealed locations.

oh, and I'd get a second IP. Slacker.

I think the Kid mistyped. I think she meant Infiltration.

"Concealing yourself" is a vague enough term that it could apply to disguise (camouflaging yourself), infiltration (using cover), or shadowing (not letting the person you're following see you). Although you might be right that KK misspoke, since a sniper would be less likely to be following someone closely, and more likely to be lurking somewhere at long range.