locomotiveman
Dec 7 2003, 07:51 PM
Since West Point and Annapolis are both clearly located in the UCAS, where do you suppose the CAS has their Academys?
Also, since it's well established that the Air Force Academy is no longer in Colorado, where do you suppose it was moved?
My guess is that the CAS took over either The citadel or VMI, and that a Naval Academy would be in Mobile or pensacola. As for a CAS Air Force Academy, I can't guess where one would be.
Side question, are Norfork, Hampton Roads etc in the State of Northern Va (UCAS) or Va (CAS)? If in CAS that could be another location for a Naval Academy.
6thDragon
Dec 7 2003, 08:52 PM
Also virtually all of the old US Army and Marine Corps bases are located in the CAS or Cal Free. The only major one I can think of is FOrt Drum, home of the 10th Mountain. Fort Steward, and Fort Hood are in CAS I'm sure either of them would do. Camp Lejeune and MCRD Paris Island would both be in CAS. Camp Pendelton would be in Cal Free, and Quantico could go either way. The FBI has their HQ there too. I'm not sure which way Langley would go either. I know UCAS kept that buffer in Northern Virginia. I think Levenworth and Leonard Woods are still in UCAS, but Huachuca is definately in Azland. What's left in UCAS? CAS has plenty to work with.
Squire
Dec 7 2003, 08:55 PM
Isn't West Point located in CAS territory? Somewhere in the Carolinas or even further south?
It is possible that both or either nation could have combined some academies. It probably wouldn't be too difficult for Annapolis to service both the UCAS Navy and UCAS Air Force.
West Point could probably be expanded to service additional branches.
And also either nation could construct new military service academies pretty much anywhere in their nation.
Don't forget the US Coast Guard academy. I don't know where it is located, but if in CAS territory, it's a likely possiblity for the CAS Naval Academy.
Of course we are assuming that both nations maintain military academies.
However, I am not aware of an canon reference to UCAS or CAS military academies. Thus, everything we discuss is pure guess work.
Crimsondude 2.0
Dec 7 2003, 09:35 PM
The U.S. Military Academy is in West Point, New York.
The Coast Guard Academy is in New London, Connecticut. And for completeness sake, the Merchant Marine Academy is in Kings Point, New York.
As the UCAS would lack an Air Force Academy, there's a perfectly good military academy in Kingston, Ontario that could probably fulfill the task. However, there'd be about fifteen years in between the Treaty of Denver and Unification. I had previously assumed Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio--because, well, why not? The further from the NAN border, the less a chance of an "incident."
As for merging the academies--It ain't gonna happen, especially at West Point. The respective cultures wouldn't dare allow it.
An interesting question would be whether the UCAS and CAS would accept students from each other, and let them go back as officers in their respective militaries. It seems unlikely, but the U.S. does have schools which instruct foreign officers. However, it's outweighed by the completely different esprit de corps that would be instilled into each country's respective officer corps. And while I don't expect the militaries to differ as far as organization, the culture that comes from attending a service academy would be very different for people who have yet to even become officers. So, I doubt that's going to happen.
Likewise, I don't expect UCAS or CAS will let ROTC scholarship students attend a university in a foreign country on their dime, which sucks only if they want to attend Southern Cal or Miami and still get a commission. Otherwise, there are still plenty of really good universities in the UCAS for them, and CAS for them. Whether participation would affect their chances of selection for OCS on the other hand is debatable.
I don't like the idea of the Virginia Military Institute (VMI) or the Citadel (South Carolina) being appropriated by the CAS government on principle. As it stands, they are military colleges (like the high schools/junior colleges), but 1) it isn't free (Well, neither are the academies in certain circumstances), and 2) there is no requirement to even apply for a commission (and serve for a specified number of years) unless you are a ROTC scholarship student. The same applies for VMI (and others). They are public universities with a military ethos, but attending them in no way mandates a future service commitment. Appropriating them from their respective states seems a bit hypocritical for a Confederation. And they have their own respective histories. A national military academy should have its own, should cost nothing (with exceptions) to students, and should exist for the sole purpose of training future officers through the military's direct action.
Where the CAS would put them is beyond me. Maybe put the Air Force Academy in Pensacola (next to the Naval Academy) so all the pilots can share runway space. I'd want the Military Academy to be in Oklahoma, especially since Texas has that damnable habit of seceding.
6thDragon
Dec 7 2003, 09:39 PM
West Point is in New York, the Coast Guard Academy is in Connecticut
Seville
Dec 8 2003, 12:12 AM
Some information from a grad of the Air Force Academy:
First, the only canon reference of which I am aware to any of the service academies are the numerous references to the Air Force Academy (USAFA) being the home of the Nexus and Denver Data Haven. As far as the other six service academies (West Point (USMA), Naval Academy (USNA), Coast Guard Academy (USCGA), Virginia Military Institute (VMI), the Citadel, and the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M), I do not know of any canon references, although they might be there.
As far as what constitutes a Service Academy, I am unsure what the legal requirements are, but the seven ones I listed above are all considered Service Academies, even though only four (USAFA, USMA, USNA, USCGA) are direct reporting units who guarantee a full ride and require service commitment. (Note you do not incur a service commitment, at least currently, until your third year.)
In my humble opinion, Service Academies are out-dated concepts, as they were originally designed to create "professional" officers, who would make the military their career. A West Point or Annapolis grad was to maintain the military's readiness in time of peace, train the military in times of build-up, and be front-line officers when combat occurs. This stems from a very traditional view of warfare that really doesn't exist anymore, and distinctions between commissioning sources which likewise do not exist (the belief that a ROTC or OTS trained officer will not look upon the military as a career). An enormous amount of money is spent on an Academy trained officer as opposed to a ROTC or OTS trained officer, and the quality between them is arguable (for better or worse). The only reason these schools still exist is tradition, and it is very possible the bases would be closed following the collapse of the United States. This is particularly possible because the military school tradition is by far strongest in the south, so that northern states might not feel as strong a need to continue the long gray line.
By the way, the Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point is not technically a service academy.
Hero
Dec 8 2003, 07:32 AM
I have an impression that the UCAS and CAS are on good terms, so I could see cross trianing between the two nations. Fort Benning GA would probably become the home of the CAS Army, Benning was the home of the now defunct US Army Rangers. The fact that 75th Ranger Regiment was widely known as one of the most professional soldiers in the world, I could see the CAS turning it into the home of the CAS Army Academy.
Off on a interesting note, all infantry officers today have to go through Ranger training, got this from a very respectable book. Titled "US Army Rangers 1983-2002 Sua sponte - Of their own accord," by Mir Bahmanyer, and published by Osprey Publishing.
Crimsondude 2.0
Dec 8 2003, 10:36 PM
What
The
Fuck
You mean,
this 75th Ranger Regiment? The one that's part of Army SOC, and based at
Ft. benning, Ft. Lewis, and
Ft. Stewart/Hunter Air Field?
Those Rangers? I
think they're still around. Just a hunch.
And all Infantry officers
DO NOT go through Ranger School. They go through
Infantry Officers Basic Course.
Ranger School is completely separate, although at the same base.
As for the Merchant Marines,
are you sure you don't want to edit that comment? I find it a bit difficult to swallow the idea of federally-administered university not being a service academy since there are only five: USMA, USNA, USAFA, USMMA, USCGA. It's run by the DOT, which also runs the Coast Guard Academy, and has all the trappings of the others, including DOD physical requirements and congressional nominations (which the CGA
doesn't have) and ends with a commission.
Funny thing, though.
The Citadel, VMI, and Texas A&M... Don't. Because they're not service academies. They don't have the exclusive purview of producing commissioned officers unlike the five existing service academies. Those programs are run by state schools and require ROTC
participation. B--F--D.
Salvation122
Dec 8 2003, 11:30 PM
I believe he was referring to SR canon, not current-day reality.
Crimsondude 2.0
Dec 8 2003, 11:36 PM
Must be, because otherwise it makes no f'ing sense.
Not that it makes sense that the Rangers would up and vanish in SR from the CAS (since the UCAS Rangers are still around).
Seville
Dec 9 2003, 07:44 PM
Well, that was very polite.
My information comes from PME during my Academy years, which I can look up when I get home in a week (assuming the topic is still alive). Like I said before, I'm not sure why some schools are classified as Service Academies, and why some are not, but there is no reason to get bent out of shape when I said that technically, the USMMA is not classified as a Service Academy. Even if I am wrong, it is still not a reason to start cursing me out. I do know that USAFA, USMA, USNA, and even the USCGA are considered Direct Reporting Units to their respective services, and I am pretty sure that the Citadel, VMI, and Corps of Cadets have a similar status as direct reporting units to a military command. I believe that this technicality of administration may well be the difference between a Service Academy and another military school.
Regardless, cursing is not a way to get your point across when talking about the merits of a commissioning source.
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