Hi all,

First of all : I'm not trying to start a SR3 vs SR4 flamewar. Please don't derail that thread into one.

I've seen a lot of people stating that SR4 has less "Shadows" than the previous editions because of the wireless matrix. I have to admit I don't get it.

According to the SSG in SR3 your credstick, and most of your gear, were broadcasting data. In most games I've played, nearly everyone had a cellphone, that could be tracked down to the user. All this could be avoided by using a fake identity, removing spytags or using some anonymizers.
You also had cameras/drones everywhere in the high rating neighborhoods and if you wanted to hide, you had to go to the Barrens.

In my opinion, if you replace credstick and cellphone in the above with commlink, you can replace SR3 with SR4. The only part that you'd need to change would be to remove "According to the SSG".

Is there something I missed, or is that just that people ignored that part of the SSG but won't ignore the same thing in SR4? (or any other reason)

I never used the SSG before trying out 4th.

From what I can tell, though, the difference was that if you walked through a busy downtown area using SSG rules, you wouldn't get arrested for not constantly broadcasting an identity. It was something that was attached to your credstick, so if you wanted to go into that trendy nightclub, you had to use a credstick with a fake ID on it. As opposed to 4th, which was just "if you walk downtown for 5 seconds without a fake ID, you get nabbed." Sure, walking downtown without a fake ID is a huge risk, but it could still be done. That level on anonymity available to runners made them FEEL like they were outside the system, rather than just faking being a part of it.

The comparison I like to make is this: in 3rd, you were hiding in the shadows, and the law was a bright, bright spotlight searching for you. While it could be evaded, you inevitably come under it's glare, and that's when you use your fake ID like a shield to protect you. Sure, if your face is on the wrong database, you'll get nabbed. But a smart runner keeps their face hidden when on the job. In 4th, EVERYTHING is lit up, and your fake ID isn't a shield, it's a bubble. You're under constant scrutiny, hoping your bubble doesn't bust.

Edit: There's some other issues I have with wireless that have more to do with the 80's cyberpunk setting than anything else. Not sure if you were referring to that too, though.

No, that I can understand, even if I feel like 3rd ed had already less 80's into it than 2nd.

I started playing during 3rd, so I never really got a taste of 2nd. But I'm worried that the setting keeps getting "updated" as modern tech advances. It's like trying to "update" steampunk in my eyes. The appeal lies in the specifics of the setting, not in how accurately it depicts real life tech.

I tend to agree with the ideas Frank put forward in his Alternate Matrix Rules.

Yes, there is this constant surveillance. Digital cameras are literally a dime a dozen and stuck every where and wireless security nodes are constantly analyzing your PAN for identification, etc etc. All that means is that data can be generated a hell of a lot faster than it can be analyzed and acted upon. Shev is correct in that it has more of a "hiding in plain site" feel, but there should be plenty of areas that don't require that level of security.

As has been said, the idea of credsticks broadcasting was optional in-game, optional as a rule, poorly known, and generally accepted as not being the norm. It's pretty new in the SSG, and has no previous support in canon, hence the assumption is, if it's never shown up before, it must not be a commonly used feature, even if it is available. Cell phones do transmit, but that's why smart runners turn off their cell phones when not in use and rely more on pagers in general. Keep in mind, the SSG came out what, seven years into SR3s run? In general, SR3's spin was 'no one cares about you, and the SINless don't exist as far as anyone is conerned'. There were cameras on street corners, but they only watched for obvious crimes (like toting around a giant gun). There was no face recognition software, no following peoples' cell phone trail, none of that stuff, and once you entered the barrens there weren't even cameras. So the shadows were long.

SR4 has a bit more of a Big Brother spin to it - there ARE cameras, and you basically must be transmitting data when you go certain places. You're no longer a ghost in the machine, since the machine tracks you and can identify you. Rather, you make sure what the machine knows isn't anything they can use to bring you in to court (or at least that they dont' catch you in time to use it). Hence, you're not hiding in the shadows, you're trying to hide in plain sight, because unless you're a radio-frequency ghost (you're not), the computer can see you pretty easily.

I think that really about sums it up for me. The atmosphere of uncaring, unfeeling corps is easier to perpetuate when they're not constantly obsessing over the fact that someone walking down the street isn't broadcasting what they had for breakfast yesterday.

Cyberpunk and 1984 are two different dystopias. Both have their ups and downs, but I play SR partly because of the cyberpunk spin.

I think Shev's view is closest to my own. There is no longer the white/black split that there was. Sure there were optional rules for RFID Credsticks (not called that, but that is what it was), but I have never used them since they dont fit my view of SR (and they weren't mandatory).

The nature of Shadowrun is that there are shadows cast by the monolithic light of the corporations, and that you can hide from the light there (as long as you dont draw it to you). There was an equilibrium between the haves (SINers) and the have nots (SINless), and for the most part they stayed in their own areas and didnt bother the other. Shadowrunners were those people who were truly free. They were usually SINless, but used their connections to live as a SINer if they wanted, or slum it like the rest. They have the skills and the ambition to be free and happy, and because of this they do the dirty work of the haves.

With the broadcasting SIN, the haves have built what amounts to an incredible wall. It is impossible to walk around as a wolf, you must don the sheeps clothing and hope you are not found out. I do not like this. I can handle gated communities, but I can not stand that all of Seattle would be gated against the barrens and SINless. There are so many of them that it should have been recognized as an impossible task and thrown in the scrap bin. I can see RFID ID in secure areas like Bellevue, but to think that the whole metroplex has this level of security is absurd.

There are no less shadows in SR4 per the setting. It´s just that the rules for SIN checks make detection inevitable, because the whole integrity of your SIN is checked all the time, as opposed to some superficial scan if the data of your SIN fits your body. If you use more stable SINs, you can imagine an "information layer" to reality, where you can disguise yourself as in the real world. Only the math of RAW SR4 does not support that vision. Control of data has to be very good now - you do not know when you are checked, that is a major problem.

And I think the tech of SR should stay high-tech compared to our world, its part of the SR feeling for me (playing since 2nd).

I don't recall reading any canon material that said otherwise. Page 211 of the BBB just says "certain areas" and uses the examples of airports and corp facilities. That seems pretty reasonable to me, considering that right now today you can't get past the terminal in an airport in the US without showing an ID and a ticket and lots of companies are requiring employees to wear ID badges at all times. I have a different ID badge for each of three hospitals I train at in Seattle! The idea of using a PAN and sending the info wireless is just a high tech rendition of how things already are.

Now given that, I can still choose to pay in cash or gift cards when I go to the grocery store, and refuse to give them my phone number for their MegaSavings Super Shopper Club. Many choose not to, but I can. This is the same as operating in Hidden mode outside of secure areas.

Anyway, in my game only the most secure sites would require Active PANs. You don't have to broadcast your SIN to walk through a shopping mall because, like you said, that would be stupid. I guess I can see where Blade and Shev are coming from, but if your GM is reasonable and moderate about what areas are affected by these rules you can go on assuming the rest of the SR4 world is the same as SR3.

They did specify there are many clubs where it's considered rude or even cause for getting the boot if you don't constantly transmit your PAN info. I'd have to guess that basically all 'public buildings' would operate the same way.

Granted, this makes sense given a time-line based off of 2008. It doesn't make so much sense in a timeline based off of 1988. And just because it's more realistic doesn't mean it's more fun. I simply don't enjoy playing SR4.

...being one of the major proponents of "the shadows are gone in SR4" school both Shev (BTW been a while) and Nezumi hit it on the head. The SSG was a supplemental ruleset whereas in 4th ed, all the Big Brother stuff is written into the rules and setting core. A lot of the feel and flavour that originally attracted me to Shadowrun is gone with 4th ed, like Neo Anarchism, the heavy Native American influence, and the mystique that was "the shadows" are pretty much gone.

Beforehand, you went to your fixer (or appropriate supplier) and purchased the gear you needed with little or no worry. Now everything, and I mean everything (from the clothing you wear down to probably even the Frosted Soy Toasties™ you ate this morning) is laced with micro RFID transmitters all beeping their little signatures. So now after a firefight when you see that shiny Ares Alpha laying there, you have to wonder how many tags does it have and how soon will the corp sec team be knocking down your door before you can find and erase them all.

Jack a car (a staple of most runs I've been on in the past)? RFID and cameras aren't the only worry as GridGuide itself (mandatory when in the city) will give you away. There go all those wonderful tyre spinning guns blazing car chases we all loved. Heck, even driving around in your own wheels can get you in trouble if the Guide doesn't like the sound of your ID "ping".

Another thing, in previous editions unless you were a Decker or Rigger, you really didn't need much if any omputer savvy to get around. You could still buy your bag of Ork Rinds and 6 pack of Spud Lite at the corner Stuffer Shack (even with a Certified stick). You could still go see a sporting event, your favourite nuke slam band, or the experience the latest sensation at the Sim O Rama. As long as the cred on your stick was good it didn't matter unless you tried to get into some exclusive club or restaurant (of course that's where your team's Decker came in handy). And then there's the manditory Active PAN zones which have been mentioned above.

The way it is made to sound now, a runner would be hard pressed to live anywhere but in or near one of the Barrens as all of "downtown (including formerly "bohemian" neighbourhoods such as the U District, Fremont & Ballard) are supposedly considered "A" zones. Hence anything above a Squatter or Low Lifestyle is pretty much moot, otherwise you become a target for the other "have nots" in your 'hood.

One of the biggest things I have always wondered about was where a runner's matrix accounts were in 4th. Certainly not with one of the established banks as they would have pretty strict security checks and detailed monitoring of all account transactions. The Underworld? Well then there goes a portion of your balance as Organised Crime is not in the business of providing complementary banking and financial services. Next, I still wonder why would a Johnson ever perform a wireless fund tranfer to a group of runners instead of usng Certified cred (which is untraceable). Even an encrypted transaction (and currently encryption is a joke) can be compromised by a good Matrix Specialist. Likewise, why would any runner be as naive to trust an unknown person, particularly someone linked to a corp, with access to her account number and and commcode even if it is on a decoy? Eventually those funds have to be transferred somewhere safe & that could mean downloading an "unwanted guest".

I believe Shev pretty much summed up the way I see 4th in comparison to previous editions as well:

...which it usually will do.

I think the difference in flavor with the "shadows" business is that it's harder to be a "punk" in SR4.

Back in SR 1,2 and 3 any idiot with a SMG (and any Money Haul or Kick in the Door gamer fresh from the Dungeons) could be a runner and function pretty well. I guess really what Kyoto Kid is talking about. And the runs the GM gave you were basically for your amusement. You knew if they kept the cash short or you fragged the mission you could just boost a 100,000 nuyen vehicle and fence the thing or whatever.

In SR4 the punk has a problem, and so do idiot players. You have to think about a lot more, you character has to do more and do it differently. To run in the high circles they actually have to be "pro". So it is a diffrent playstyle.

I kinda like it. Though I find it helps if you don't take it too far. Most systems aren't doing rating 5 checks on you every few minutes. Let them get by on the streets in general with rating one throwaway SINs or possibly even a stolen SIN from somewhere else. Also I let them operate somewhat similarly to SR3 so long as they stay out of A or higher zones. Which actually makes the city more interesting when you have to think about where they are.

Still I have to admit it's different. You're modern runner is a ghost in a nanopaste disguise, a fake SIN and acomlink and vehicle that like to change their comcodes.

There's a major element here that I don't think people realize.

Information Overload. Even with heuteristic processing and fuzzy logic, you're going to have *SO* many false alarms all the time that unless the Security Agency is anal from even a Professional point of view, there's lots of wiggle room for a lot of different things!

"YOU! YOUR PAN IS NOT DISPLAYING YOUR SIN!" "Sorry, battery ran out. On my way to pick some up."

"Hello, this is GridGuide, you appear to be driving at an unsafe speed." "No I'm not. Your sensors are out of wack again." *Shows Speedo just below speed limit with hacked camera while driving at insane speed* "See?" "Oh, I'm sorry Sir."

There are going to be problems and errors left, right, and centre. They will be ignored, or easily spoken away from.

Always target the human element, and never, ever underestimate the power of human stupidity.

This message brought to you by someone that worked in Tech Support and IT, and knows just how unreliable everything in the world really is.

Just dropping in to say that several of these concerns will be addressed in upcoming books.

On the plus side, YES!

On the down, you just want to sell more books, don't you? ;-P

I understand how people feel about the flavor thing in SR4. I wasn't exactly thrilled with the pervasive LAN "EVERYTHING is overlaid by the matrix all the time" feel that hte BBB tried to suggest.

So, I jsut didn't go there. Sure, matrix overlay is available in all your middle-class and upper areas. But I don't have the cops harrassing you becasue your comlink is turned off, other than in secure areas and maybe triple A neighborhoods. I look at the Matrix deal as being there to switch on if you want use it. I don't provide constant checks of ID's... only where necessary or if the story really asks for it. The Barrens and your lower class neighborhoods either aren't checking or don't have it. Sure, I have spy drones covering the streets. But, again, they arent often flying around in the Barrens or the lower class areas. Too many folks would be taking htem out, canabalizing them for parts and what not. "Oh! Another Lonestar Surveilance drone! Them's mighty fine eatin' Henry, get me my shotgun!"

And, I think much as CanRay does: Information Overload! Unless the cops are actively searching for your face becasue you recently committed a big crime, their computers aren't even gonna be searching for you. They don;t have the resources to do anything about finding you, the guy that is violating his parole by being in a bar, or escaped custody two years ago on those burglary charges.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if a GM or players don't like something as presented in the books, don't use it! Your game is your game and no one from Catalyst police is gonna come knocking on your door saying "Shadowrun Fluff Violation!" Then shock you with their stun batons and go "Please come with us."

Well, unless you aren't running your comlinks while playing. Then, by all means, they might.

Vlad

Interesting. Are you free to elaborate a bit on that?

Ford has a problem with some of their older model cars. There's a fault in the electrical system that can cause the car to go up in a ball of flame even jsut sitting in your driveway. There's been a recall out for nearly a decade now, yet less than 50% of customers with affected vehicles have come in to get it fixed. Despite the possibility of their car having a meltdown.

Somehow, I can't see the public being any more enthusiastic or motivated to incorporate a 'mandatory' public tracking system, even if not participating has negative effects. Apathy alone will cause so many "NO SIN DETECTED" alerts that the system would be unmanageable.


-karma

Which is one of the reasons the whole system is hard to swallow in the first place. Things worked much better when the high level paranoid monitoring was left to the high-level security areas, instead of becoming commonplace.

Another issue with a wireless Matrix is the abandoning of fiber optics. Something about digging up a length of decaying fiber optics (or hijacking a length already in use) has a much gritter, dirtier feel to it than cleanly hacking in wirelessly.

I wouldnt be surprised if the whole world was gone totally wireless by 2025, let alone 2070. I think my suspension of disbelief is shot just trying to imagine wired internet in 2070.

Shades of gray. If you're not broadcasting an ID at Grand Central Station in NYC, no cop has the free time to ask you what's up. If you're the only pedestrian walking down the hedge-lined street in a high-end residential suburb at 9PM, and a police cruiser drives by, sure, they glance at you, no icon appears in their AR goggle view, they're quite likely to pull over and ask who you are and if you have business in the neighborhood. Unless you look like a 60-year-old woman walking her poodle, in which case they might shrug and not bother.

Then again, a Meta Link broadcasting that you're Joe Smith, SIN 123-456-789, is cheap, and might be all it takes for you to pass the IFF test, when the tester doesn't really care. A shadowrunner CAN live in a nice neighborhood - if they're willing and able to pose as, and pass for, a middle-class citizen. Cf. "The Transporter".

I think that the real problem is that we've all seen minority report and 1984, and whats more, now we know that it is all very possible.

So the 'future' we collectively imagine for shadowrun has less shadows, because the future we collectively imagine for the real world is going to have a 1000 megawatt eye of sauron at all times.

*evil Laugh* Come to the Ork Underground, Breeders and Pointy Eared Leaf Eaters. Down there if it can not be eaten, burned, melted, or wiped with, it has no value.

I too agree with KK and most here.

And no I really do not want to buy Yet Another Poorly Spell Checked, Massive Typoed Book to get what the BBB should have had in the first place.

WMS

Then don't!

On fibre optics. I still use them in my campaigns. Because encryption is a joke and everybody who knows the matrix in the SR universe knows this.

That's why instead of sitting at home and telecommuting while still lying in bed through your comlink the wageslaves have to get up, drive to an actual building, and sit at an actual desk. And when what you're doing is secret enough that broadcasting it to everyone inside the RF paint isn't an option it's time to shut off the wireless and plug in the fibre optic line.

In short if a system has the really good paydata the only way to access it is to get your hacker into the target building and attach some fibre to them. Which is cause for plenty of runs in and of itself.

Back on the shadows topic. Again I think some of you need to quit making every street outside of every stuffer shack high security. That just makes high security meaningless.

Personally I kinda like the effect on the players perceptions when they feel the corp oppresion a little. In C or lower rated areas I let them act like they did in SR3. But A, AA, and especially AAA zones. Oh I'm afraid those are only for the good people of the world. Not you.

Scumbag.

I wouldn't be surprised if something along those lines is what gets added in a later book. It isn't a rules change even. Just a clarification for section that was really left open to interpritation.

I'm personally ruleing that CommLinks and the Wireless Matrix works like Cell Phones do today.

Sure, they're wireless, but you need a high-bandwidth backbone to make it work. HEY! Look at that! There's already one in place! The Fibreoptics!

It's not so much that the Wired Matrix is dead, it's just that the Matrix is now ACCESSABLE to everyone due to the Wireless Initiative.

You can still slink into that Redmond Barren Illegal Jackpoint, replace the fried/corrupted hardware that was eaten by the "Viking Computer Program From Hel's Domain" (No, that's not a typo), and there you go, all the illegal access you once had is yours again!

so people want more street, but also the ability to run themed gangs that rampage out of the barrens like barbarians into rome?

Hit the nail on the head.

And all the surveillance in the world doesn't mean jack shit if nobody actually cares enough to come looking for you.

This is exactly what I do as well, yes. I basically rule it as short-range node-to-node contact, but to get from Joebob In Seattle to Dr. Chung's Killbot Emporium in Hong Kong, you'd best be routing your ass through the matrix proper.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/14/america...idual-garments/

Im glad to hear that, though I am very disappointed that the setting was not better thought out from the beginning.

The biggest issue with the wireless matrix is the lack of backbones. No way in hell are you going to tell me that they just abandoned them. They are so many millions of miles of Fiber optic all over the sixth world that it would be downright stupid to abandon it. Also, the European grid is still 100% functional after the crash, and while the wireless would make some headway, it would not outright replace Lofwyr's grid.

Now I am curious whether commlinks are Wireless devices only, or can they deck at jackpoint as well? I hate the way they didnt take into consideration the way things were before, and just made a completely new SR without much regard for the past. I understand that this may have been a good development choice, but as a fan of the setting, it saddens me.

It could be much, much worse. (*Cough*FASA Studios owned by MicroDeck*Cough*)

i dont recall the text ever downright saying that everything (including transcontinental backbones) where wireless now.

to me, people are making a mountain out of a molehill...

As long as what happens in the barrens, stays in the barrens, I'm fine with that.

When they start trying to come OUT of the barrens and messing with Citizens, then they get the hammer dropped on them. With the ammo and drone expenditures paid for by the pay per view.

Worse, I think in their campaigns it actually IS a mountain.

Another thing to consider: lets say your PC commits a crime. Kills a guard or something. Then the guard's friends start looking for the runner. They may use security footage and face recognition software to determine the runners identity, or pull up the logs from a near-by vending machine to determine his commcode. They might track down his contacts and start "asking tough questions". Burn his apartment building to the ground, including sweet Mrs. Friendly that lived down the hall. Gridguide his car into a grid lock ambush. Etc etc etc...

Well me, I like to call those "plot devices".

First I must say I strongly agree with entities responding differently depending on what runners do. If they took some plans. Well, that's just biz, try to get the info back, but then write it off. They kill a secretary and a guard? They just make it personal for somebody.

But that said in the above example they should be shifting from nanopaste mask to nanopaste mask and comcode to comcode.

Hmmmmmm.

Maybe a good way to describe SR4 is that we've moved from cyberpunk to cyberpro.

I should point out that the PCs should by all means take steps to protect themselves. I'm just saying that slipping up every once in awhile doesn't ruin the game... IMHO it's what makes the game fun to play.


Hmmm... Interesting way to put it. I think you're right. But I can understand where people have concerns, since the RAW seems to imply that the "cyberpro" playing style is integral to the system, and thats not what some players are looking for.

I really can see it both ways, but I just don't think the changes have ruined the SR universe forever... </hyperbole>

(edit for clarity)

Personally I've been playing SR since SR1 and I've always seen the necessity to update the technology as our own advances rapidly.

For those that claim that there seems to be a more "big brother" feel to the game where your information is readily available to anyone in law enforcement that wants it, I point to a number of the things people have already brought up (info overload, not following up on people who aren't exhibiting egregious lawbreaking tendencies, etc.).

There is also the inherent problem with info-share between the various organizations that police the different areas of Seattle. I think it takes a really positive person to say that every organization is willing to share this information and/or dump it into some national database somewhere. To me, the reality of it is that various organizations will have pieces of the data and other organizations are able to access it through some mechanism similar to the web services businesses are so fond of these days. However, the inherent problem there is that there will be constant issues with validity of data, exchange protocol compatibility, and all the other things that existing info-share services experience today. Imagine how much more of an issue this will be in a world where corporations are basically nationalities, and a lot of their own information is considered a business secret? So long as they control their territory, and insofar as their citizens live within their own "borders", do you think they would share information with some governing body if they didn't have to?

On top of that you'll have issues with rival law enforcement orgs sharing info, problems with certain corporations or LE orgs even trusting external info being sent to their endpoint devices, and so on.

It would appear to me that a SIN scan by a "generic" LE device (drone or otherwise) would only be *legally* able to grab certain portions of information that all corporations and [important] national bodies agree to - realistically this would probably be:

- A valid SIN, tied to:
- date of birth
- relevant physical features
- criminal record, if any

All else, such as purchasing habits, credit information, and the like would very likely be information stored directly on a specific merchant's database, and - depending on the capability of said merchant - may or may not be immediately available to law enforcement agencies.

I just really don't think that a rating6 SIN is even required to operate inside of AAA zones - but that's just me and my spin on 4th ed I guess.

I dunno...it seems to me that there are plenty of shadows to hide in - especially the ones that virtually run between the databases of the various entities of the 6th World...

Why? Why the hell would they. They're banks. They don't care where the money comes from or where it goes as long as it sits in their vaults long enough for them to make a pretty penny by loaning people your money at a floating interest rate. Banks today have all sorts of security requirements because of anti-money laundering and anti-terrorism financing laws. Banks in Shadowrun tend to be the sort that can legally make their own laws and they tend to pay people to commit terrorist acts on their behalves. The way I see it, they'll have strict privacy laws, much like the laws in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands. The way I see it, in Shadowrun's extraterritorial banks, just like in Swiss banks of 1944, you can walk up to a teller and say in a thick German accent "I am a British businessman and I would like to open an account and deposit this large sack full of gold teeth" and they would accept those gold teeth without batting an eyelash.


As for other concerns, there is one important thing to remember about Shadowrun, biometrics are worthless for identification. They really are. Every biometric that can be scanned and used for identification can be changed without breaking the law.

Lets start with the most basic, fingerprints. In real life, fingerprints can be changed by wearing them down with abrasives or burning them off with acids. Bricklayers and other people who work with abrasives day in and day out and who don't wear gloves tend to not have fingerprints for this reason. And the fingerprints won't grow back the same, because fingerprints aren't genetic. In Shadowrun, people change their fingers. They don't do it all the time, but they can do it often enough that fingerprints are useless for identification. Maybe you were in a horrible woodchipper accident, maybe that cyberhand wasn't nearly as cool as you thought it was maybe you dishonored yourself in front of your very strict Japanese boss. For whatever reason, people get new fingers all the time. And some people go around with metal fingers just for the hell of it.

Then there is retina scans. In real life, they're difficult to lose and difficult to duplicate. In Shadowrun, they're the stupidest biometric that you could possible use. People get their eyes changed often enough for there to be eye fashions. Cybereyes are extremely common and are usually worn for vanity rather than for utility. They're a status symbol that even some homeless people have. Using retina patters to confirm identity is pretty much impossible in an enviroment where you can go to the mall, pick your favorite color of the cool new cybereye line and have your flesh-eyes scooped out and replaced right there in the store.

Height, weight, sex, distinguishing features, apparaet age, and apparent metatype are all mutable with UGE, SRUGE, and cosmetic surgery. (of course, you'll have to do a great deal of cutting and probably some organ replacement to make a troll look like a dwarf).

DNA is the most reliable biometric but it is also the most expensive to implement properly. Portable and commercial DNA scanners have trouble dealing with certain geneware techniques and are not reliable enough to be admissible in a court of law. A full series of laboratory tests can accurately identify even altered DNA, but they're time consuming and expensive.


The gist of it is that if you're a fifteen-foot-tall male Aussie troll with bone-spikes growing out of your body and a barbed poisonous tail but your SIN data says your a 5-foot human Filipino stay-at-home mother of three you can plausibly tell anyone who calls you on it that goblinization is a bitch and you did want to hurt your family but you couldn't keep living a lie anymore.

This, of course, means that there will be a great deal of handwaving within reason and while it may be mandatory to broadcast valid SINs no one is actually checking them to see if they match the broadcaster in any way, except in high security areas.


This leads us to my preferred way around a great deal of the silliness of interactions between mandatory SIN broadcasting and the SINless lifestyle: burners.
Burners are an idea stolen by me from The Wire and I'm pretty sure it is a real gang tactic. The idea of burners in real life is simple. You buy a disposable prepaid cellphone, the kind that you can refill with cards bought at any continence store, and you register it using fake information. Then, you use it for a while, but not so long that the authorities can link it to you. Before your minutes run out, you drop it on the street and you pick up one that someone else dropped. You tell everyone your new number, refill the new phone if you need to, use it for a few days, and then drop it and pick up a new one. Repeat. This prevents anyone from linking the phone to you. The key to prevent it from becoming absurdly expensive is twofold. First, disposable phones are cheap. Second, you're dropping your used phone into what is essentially a community pool and taking back from that pool so most of the time the new phone doesn't cost you anything.

Among the SINless in my games, burners are cheap comlinks with low-rating fake or stolen real SINs and low-end pre-paid cred accounts from extraterritorial banks loaded onto them. You pick up a burner and it probably has a couple of nuyen left in the account. You use it a couple of times at places where they don't bother asking questions, maybe you refill the cred account and use it for a while longer, and then you drop it with enough left on the account for the next guy to buy himself a soyburger and some fries and you pick up a new one. This practice allows the SINless to actually exist in the real world without leaving a traceable paper trail.


Another practice, this one common to the matrix savvy, is SIN banking. The idea is simple. There are places where everyone is expected to broadcast their SINs. Some of these places have thousands of visitors a day. You can just go to any public place and hang around for a couple of hours collecting totally legitimate SINs which you could then use a few times each at different places without arousing suspicion. The bold and the daring eavesdrop on wireless financial transactions and grab credit accounts, as well. Since the SINs are totally legitimate their is absolutely no chance that they'll fail inspection unless biometrics are called for. You keep some for yourself, sell some, and give some away to your friends. At a very popular mall you can collect hundreds in an hour.

Banks care deeply about money laundering today. You should see the amount of money that is being spent on anti money laundering measures. it's keeping entire businesses in business.

The fact that they don;t care in the future is another 'I belive' button to prevent shadowrun turning into minority report.

Banks care about money laundering today because their are laws and regulations that make them care. Putting your loyal customers in prison is not a sound business practice. Getting shut down and dismantled by the government is even less sound. If you take away the threat of the latter then sane responsible banks will stop doing the former.

Yes there are areas in the 4th ed where you will get slammed for not constantly transmitting a SIN.... the again after both crashes for crimminies sakes there are many people left w/o a social identity number to call their own. What about those people? Also think about the rating of your SIN and the rating of the SIN detector. If you look up rating in the BBB 5-6 is what the military is packing as far as scanners are concerned, so if you are walking around w/ a rating 4-6 SIN I think your in the clear. In a world where there are hundreds of cameras, and no one wants to share whatever information they obtain why does it matter that there is always a camera? The fractured system between corps and the government means that the UCAS can't just waltz in and ask for the data feed from a Renraku facility, and vice versa. According to raw a r1 SIN scanner has a 1 and 6 chance of critical glitching. Other then that if you are walking around with basically a military grade fake SIN I think that entitles you to a lot.

Also have you considered the setting? The barrens? Seattle? L.A.? These are places where you might even stand out against the majority if you are sporting an awesome SIN. There is a lot of gray and that is why shadowrunners stay low and cover their ass. Other then that though there are places where the system of I.D.s totally works and a majority where it doesn't. Why is that such a problem?

Unlike today where banks are corporations in their own right and the biggest in the world I might add, in the Shadowrun future, the banks are ALSO the major industrial corporations AND the government. Note that anyone money laundering is almost certainly guilty of having committed a crime against those corporations almost by defintion, starting with tax and duty evasion, violating distribution agreements and culimating in actually having murdered bank employees.

All the governments desires today are going still be with the banks in the future, because instead of the government regulating the banks, the government IS the bank.

I thought the corps are the banks as well... corp script anyone? If there are countries that are willing to launder money no questions asked wouldn't there still be places for that in the future? Maybe they take 15%, but still.

Discarded burners would also explain where all those squatters get their commlinks. I like it.

Governments have an implied contract with their citizens to provide for the citizens' welfare. Corporations have an actual contract with their shareholders to maximize profit. Actual contracts trump implied contracts.

There are very few countries. Nobody wants to end up like North Korea. North Korea's world trade (in heroin and forged $100s) got shut down when the western banking system pressured the one bank in the world (In Macau) that would do business with it.

There are places that will launder money. Most are in out the way places, doing business with people they will never see face to face. I'm told the rates for cyber criminals are up to 50%. And there isn't anyone blowing up the money launderers yet.

No they don't in SR. They maintain standing militaries, for gods sakes. And in SR EVERY mega is controlled by one or two people. The rest of the "stockholders" can go piss up a rope.