So... I'm getting ready to take my SR group through the Survivial of the Fittest series of runs. The problem is that, well, all of the players' characters are at least moderately sane... and I can't think of any reason a moderately sane person (who doesn't have access to orbital weapons platforms or tactical nukes) would risk entering the lair of a Great Dragon unless the payoff were enough to retire on. I mean, sure, runners risk their lives all the time... but at least with human adversaries they stand a reasonable chance of surviving if the run goes sour and turns into a firefight. They are, afterall, better equipped and more skilled than most cops or sec guards (certainly not all, but most).

Dragons, and, especially, Great Dragons are a completely different thing. The runners are in all ways inferior to them; they have little reason to hope that they could even sneak by, much less escape with their lives if a fight broke out. Who even knows what guardians the dragons have employed...

ANYWAY... to get to the point, I have exactly zero confidence that I could offer the runners sufficient incentive to willingly go on even the first run in the series - they simply have too much of a survival instinct to walk into what they would consider almost certain death for any amount of money. I do think they would enjoy the runs... but telling them this out of character wouldnt really be appropriate.

SO, unfortunately, I feel as if I must blackmail them into going on the runs. Obviously, this would involve a good deal of rewriting the run introductions etc, which isn't a problem by itself. The problem I have with this is that, well, I would like for the runners to recieve some sort of compensation for their actions beyond simply getting to continue living... however, if I arrange for the people hiring them to have sufficient leverage as to be able to blackmail them into doing something they would never willingly agree to do, why would those people bother pay them. (We can make you do X and you will suffer horrible consequences if you fail... but for no particular reason we'll pay you if you succeed!)

So... umm... yeah. I suppose I could simply not use the book with these players... but that would make me sad. Also, I see this problem cropping up with just about any group I play with, and I would rather not have spent the money on a book I can't use. Any advice as to how I might deal with this predicament?

I agree. That's why we never used that book, the runners said No, and that was the end of the story. I will never, ever blackmail my players into something just because I want to do it. That's railroading.

Why can't just put the data cache somewhere else and have them run on that. Same basic background just need a diferent target. Could use the same basic set up if your wanting a little less work

Offer sufficient incentive, and keep the players in the dark as mcuh as possible, and you'll get 'em in. Once they start the runs, getting 'em to finish is a matter of tightening the screws...or calling them on the debated existence of their cojones.

Or set it up so that they'll piss of a Great Dragon by not taking the run.

You catch mroe flies with sugar. Generous sums of nuyen make characters suspicious...but throw in something you know has been on their wishlist, like access to a delta clinic or a couple decagrams worth of orichalcum nuggets or an all-expenses paid trip to an orbital resort, maybe a high up contact...plus, of course, the Johnson has to be both believable and squeaky-clean. At least, as far as the runners can determine.

Side note, hide the book while running it. If they know what survival of the fittest is, then seeing the book might cause more problems.

BitBasher: Actually, one of my most entertaining campaigns started off with blackmail (for the players as well as myself, in case you were wondering). I don't mind using it on occasion to remind the players that they operate in a system that doesnt particularly mind the use of such tactics... its just that I prefer to keep that sort of a thing to a minimum, as it stops being fun.

AH: cojones?

moosegod: That, I believe, would fall under the heading "blackmail." Incidentally, this was one of the options I was considering... I would use Legacy to do that.

Shockwave: I *could* do that, but it wouldnt solve the problems later in the series of stealing the songbird and the shroud, both of which are also obvious runs against GD's.

Another angle I was considering would be to have Hestaby reveal herself at the end of the first run, personally congratulate them (assuming they succeed), and inform them that she has chosen them as her agents. While this would lessen the impact of having her do so at the very end, I imagine that they would be much less likely to say no to the Great Dragon. The only problem with this angle is that it would involve a great deal of trust being placed on them by Hestaby, which they haven't really earned yet. Additionally, I'm not sure if she would risk having herself revealed before her plans are completed if the PCs blab too much... she might be worried that they would offer that information up to a rival for the right price and guaranteed protection...

Cojones= Balls (generally used as "do you have the cojones do go through with it). I beleive, i might be wrong.

True, or you could inflate their ego if they think there good enough, along with a promise that hestaby herself won't be on site at the time.

Oh i agree most runners wouldn't. But then you get these types with cojones bigger then their brains who feel they need to prove something to themselfs.

But i wouldn't unless there was a lot of money, and what i was stealing wasn't actually Hestaby's just in Shasta lodge, like the ring for one of her shamens that was not given to by hestaby. Even then i would have to think about 5-6 times before say no.

There is always the - you will be testing security for them at this location although no one knows you are coming. Here is the "safety word" - an extra 100,000 nuyen if you don't have to use it.

A dragon giving me safe words would make me run away and get major plastic surgery plus genetic alteration.

~J

Riggers/deckers/sammies don't have an astral signature, IIRC.

~J

So... insofar as I doubt questioning the existence of the runners cajones would sway them to commit what they would see as being suicide (man... you're all such PANSIES for not jumping into that pool of lava) I think I'll alter the timeframe of the run such that it has to be done immediately, leave out any mention in the briefing as to where exactly it will be and whose lair it is, and increase the initial nuyen offer to compensate for the lack of preparation time.

Transit would be provided by the employer, with the understanding that they would be picked up after calling in to confirm the completion of the run... that way they're more likely to proceed with the run even if they do freak out a bit when H flies by (as it would certainly suck to be abandoned in dragon-controlled territory).

Any of the more paranoid players out there see a flaw in this plan that I may have overlooked?

ummm this one would be ummm intresting and would depend on the type of toon I was runing. Now there would be no way in heck you would get me with in 100 Miles of the joint in real life but ummm Trick might have a go at it just to have braging rights but then Trick is odd anyway

Here is the way I snared my PCs:

For awhile before the run, I had trusted contacts come up and congratulate them - word on the street was that the runners had caught the eye of one of the most influential and powerful fixers in the biz (In my games this is Anson Helm, from the first Harlequin adventure book - choose someone the players have heard of, or make one up)

I made Mr.Radek a frontfigure for this überfixer, offering the first run in the book to the players, telling them that of they performed well, his boss had more jobs for them, and if they did well on thee they would start earning enough money and prestige to become first tier runners and ultimately have the choice of retiring in style or staying in the biz at the very top. He stroked their egos in just the right ways, and ended with 'in order to prove yourselves, you will have to make almost all the arrangements for this first run, to prove that you can. In the future, we will provide as much support as we can when you work for us.'

With the added promise of Hestaby being away in the Tir at the time of the strike, the runners were hooked.

For the Silver Songbird run I simply had the runners flown to Wales, where they realized 'too late' they were entering the lair of a GD, and once you are there, well... which do you want to do? Say 'no' to a GD, or enter another GD's lair with backing from the first GD (kind of). Only problem here was when Radek showed up to exchange birds...

That's a risky gamble -- if the rigger is out on business or otherwise unreachable, they're flocked.

As for motivating your players, favors from level 2 and 3 contacts, insane amounts of money...relatively rare or unique items...one shot favors and so on. A one-shot pass to a beta or *gasp* Delta-grade clinic (player still has to cough up cash, but it's a phone number and a limited stay pre-paid), introduction and membership dues to an initation group and so on.

Do your characters have any personal motivations? Protecting the earth? Thwarting evil? Acquiring that last piece of Fiestaware?

-Siege

Their motivations run from "being mildly addicted to the excitement of running the shadows" to "getting revenge on those that fragged up their lives" to "trying to save up enough money to start up a park for paranormal wildlife preservation and study." (yeah... I think the last one is a bit strange myself...) As for promising to fulfill all of their wildest hopes and dreams...well, I would be concerned about offering them *too* much, as that makes it seem like the employer expects the run to be especially dangerous, as opposed to simply being rushed. Blah.

Perhaps I could throw in a little bit about how Mr. Johnson's employer "would like to use this opportunity to determine how well you operate under pressure" and that "significantly more lucrative job offers might find their way to the runners in the future" if they perform adequately...

Hell, Hestaby would probably donate money to paranatural preserves anyway. She's just that kind of dragon...

The response my Johnson would get from myself and the group I run with would be a silent, speedy and final evacuation from the meet. The Johnson may get mad, he may attempt to get even but I have full confidence in my abilities to deal with an offended Johnson. Great Dragons, insect spirits, Military Targets and SK are completely out of the question. I'd rather not have a game that day then face that sort of opposiotion. This also applies both ways. I would most likely never work for one of these personalities or organizations.

Well, to hook my players I´m slowly making the following things:
- Run after run I reduce the pay.
- Thanks to their attitudes, they are slowly eroding their reputations in the shadows.
- I'm hitting their comfy lifestyles... IRS, Lone Star frequent checks of noisy neighboors (they), Mafia blackmailing, contacts asking for monetary help, SOTA advance rules.
- Downtime, I tell them that two or three months have passed in which they haven't received a single job offer.
- Each time a fixer or Johnson calls them, he(she) says that is calling because it couldn't find another team.

So, in the end, when Mr. Radek offers them the first run, I hope they will jump for it, also, I'll launch a cute ploot hook that they are awaiting since a long time ago: "look, I shouldn't tell you this, but the corp you wish to work for is recruiting, and this is their test run, heck, Hestaby wont even be in there for weeks"

Hope this helps.

It is bad railroading. Of course, such things can happen, but players should not be forced taking such run. They can get desperate and do stupid things. Almost any offer is better than going around GD.

Johnson: "Yeah, I -swear- the great dragon isn't going to be around for weeks... when you make it back, as a bonus, I'll even throw in an extra mil. !"
Runner 1: "...I have to go to the bathroom. excuse me."
Runner 2: "...yes, I also have to go the bathroom."
Runners 3-5: (all get up and run away)
Johnson: <shouting after them> "I SWEAR! I have it from a reliable source that she's out having tea with the elves!"

<interlude. Runners go their fixer the next day>

Runners: "You pull drek like that again, and we're moving to Germany."
Fixer: "Yeah, sorry about that. I thought it sounded a little fishy myself..." (looks through his files) "Well, I have this other Mr. Johnson who wants... no, that sounds pretty crazy too..."

Reprecussions for actions is not "railroading," nor is setting up behind-the-scenes scenarios that force players into certain positions. That's good GMing and can lead to some effin' brilliant games. For a scenario like Survival of the Fittest, the amount of powergaming going on behind the scenes is immense. Since players are supposed to be the "stars" of the game, it makes perfect sense that those machinations by the power players are focused around them.

Railroading -- at least in the negative context that's being thrown around in this thread -- is a bit different. Railroading people that way is a sign of bad GMing, usually done simply because the GM has a bit of a god complex and/or can't handle on-the-spur storytelling. He's spent X amount of days working on the run and has no intention of letting the players get away from using it. This type of railroading usually occurs in more "standard" scenarios or at the beginning of a campaign in which the players haven't had enough time in-game to even have a minor reputation, and certainly not enough to have powergamers in the background weaving them in their plots.

Yes, and the same is true in most works of fiction, cyberpunkis or not. But the people those stories focus around are the "stars" of the novel/movie/play/game, too.

"Star" does not mean "the world revolves around them. "Star" means the stories revolve around them simply because they're the ones taking part in the story.

Bob McWhoever might be doing some major shit down in Whogivesafuckavania that easily trumps anything the "stars" are doing... but he's in Whogivesafuckavania and well out of the story. Thus he's not the star or the focus of the story, so it doesn't really matter what he's doing unless it comes into direct or indirect contact with the actual "stars."

And yes, "stars" can be "just people living in a world doing their best to achive their life's goals." Just like most stars in most movies.

Simple solution, and what I am planning to do. Mr. Radek (or any Johnson for that matter) would be an idiot to even bring up Hestaby's lair. Let the runners to the legwork for themselves. In my campaign, they are going to be offered 20,000 for the job instead of 50,000. Since they don't know they are going after a dragon, they don't need the extra cash. That's damage control money if the players figure it out and pitch a fit, or a bonus for a job well done at the end of the run. I'm going to try to keep the fact that they are working for a dragon in the shadows for as long as I possibly can. Hopefully by that time, they will be deep involved, and they will welcome the fact that they have a dragon backing them. Hey if your going to frag off a great dragon in the first place, it's better to have one in your corner as well.

Now I haven't read or played any of the Survival of the Fittest Run and yes at first glance most people would turn down a run against and GD, but if you think about it for awhile it's not really any different than running against a corp or megacorp (which has gotta be about 90% of all runs). The GD isn't really gonna care about the runner who take something from it's lair (well it might be a little pissed and turn up and scary them and threaten them with the knowledge that it knows they did it, and can always find them if it wants) but to be brutally honest the GD is going to be pissed at whoever *hired* the runners.... Their the threat to the GD not the runners.... do you really care that much if an ant nicks some cream bun?

Personnal as long as I didn't expect the GD to be there while the run was going down I'd take the run.... and I'd be faaaar more worried that I was working for a dragon than running against one.... but that's just my 2 pence worth *8->

I don't know about that. Breaking into a Saeder-Krupp research facility is a lot different than breaking into Lofwyr's lair.

And let it be your epitaph:

"Didn't think stealing from a dragon would really piss it off"

More like "Piss off not Great Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup".

Of course, my character always wanted to send a gag gift to Harliquinn: a tombstone engraged "ELF: Exendable Life Form"

-Siege

Well I've made it through the first two missions of survival so far. Didn't mention a thing about a dragon untill they did some legwork, that made them quite uneasy. Then as they approached shasta the scene where Hestaby flys overhead almost made them shit themselves!

In balance, They did quite nicely, but left the mission very creeped out and thankful that Ghostwalker was more angry with their employer, than them.

I can't wait until mission 6, in Terahn. I'm planning on running it like black hawk down meets the night/dawn/day of the dead series.