Link

Must have run out of edge...

Nice!

Man I cant wait for the day when some dude who does D1 or Formula D competitions gets chased, that'll make for some awesome footage.

For those of you who aren't motorheads, those are drifting leagues.

Frag.

Now I can't dispute how "Easy" it is to recover from a PIT manouver.

If it's the clip i think it is, the guy was a professional stunt driver.

bah. try a Rally or Off road driver. those guys have some serious skills.

hehe... that was amusing. I'm glad a lot of police departments have suspended high speed chases though, seems like an awful lot of trouble to get one guy in a vehicle that can very easily become and airborne weapon.

So why blame the cops for that fact, instead of the criminal who (a) did something to get chased for, (b) then instigated the high speed chase? I don't think flooring it should be a get out of jail free card.

Well the phrase "Cure is worse than the disease" comes to mind. Ending a bad situation by pushing a car into oncoming freeway traffic is not my idea of a very effective policy of keeping the peace.

Also, who said they get out of jail free? If reporters can follow them than I tend to think that FLIR mounted police helo's can probably do a reasonable job as well.

Australia suspended high speed chases if there is the potential of injuring civilians and instead switches to helicopters, roadspikes and barriers.

Edit: Yeah, the actual defination is something like the threat to the public is greater if the chase is continued than abandoned, so it's higher if chasing an armed offended.

We use road blocks usually, and cop cars don't drive too fast after perps (unless there's a serious danger for others like a fleeing murderer or so).

Is it really true that cops have to stop you to write a ticket too in the US? And simply taking a picture of your car with license plate with a radar camera is not enough?

You know.. that's an interesting question. You can get tickets from running red lights and speeding if the right all seeing eyes see you.

But cops still pull people over. Out of habit maybe?

I'm sure it varies widely among jurisdictions.

I wouldn't say it's "habit" so much as "because during a manual stop the potential exists for further violations to be unearthed." An awful lot of drug arrests, drunk driving arrests, etc, start as a routine traffic stop. An awful lot of officer fatalities start that way, too, though. So, in my book, it's a checkmark in the "brave enough to do the job, even if a fancy camera can handle the job instead" category, for the cops still out there stopping folks when they don't have to.

Ah did forget about the other big reasons for traffic stops. I do recall a great deal of serious criminals getting had out for running a red light or not having a working left turn signal.

Anyone sprung this sort of thing on their runners? Just to make em sweat?

Yep. Much fun!

"PIT" is, if the cop shows from left-pondia that we get over here in Airstrip One are to be believed, stands, supposedly for "Precision Immobilisation Technique". It is to laugh. What the UK motorway cops do is box the car being chased. One car gets ahead and gets in the runner's way at a distance of about a foot. Another car comes from behind and boxes it in so it can't brake and get any distance. Then both police drivers brake hard and steer to keep the evading vehicle between them. *That*'s precision. If there are three cars available, they'll box the fleeing vehicle against the central barrier on a motorway, too.

I suppose the chances of a pursued car shooting at surrounding cops is higher over there, but don't see a great deal of additional security in just clipping a wing.

its as if it was taken straight out of a GTA game...

Yeah, I love how the cops "Stopped performing High Speed Persuits" in a lot of areas.

Like they did mine.

Which doesn't explain how a cop car hit a minivan with a soccer team and the soccer mom at 90 km/h in the neighbourhood next to the Downtown core a year after they "Stopped".

But that's just the cops from my home town...

Yeah, we generally require the cop verify who the driver is, but it varies from state to state. In Maryland, they don't charge you with speeding as such, but with something stupid like failing to control your car. So if you're in someone else's car, or the company car, the bill gets sent to the owner, not to you. In DC, they don't believe their part of the United States, except wherein they get to complain about stuff, so they just charge the driver with whatever they want.

But seriously, why are the police cars endangering the traffic by bumping into his car in the first place?
Is that for the pure entertainment value for the media?

I never got that part of US culture.

Because "BOY HOWDY AIN'T IT FUN??? Like dem Dukes Show!"

Northern Ontarian cops aren't that much better.

It's because bumping the car like that puts them out of control, and out of commission. You'll note that each time the cops nailed that mustang, it was when there weren't any other cars around. They usually do their damnedest to bump the vehicle in a way that will send it crashing *away* from other vehicles. The vehicles behind them would have seen what was going on and slowed/stopped with plenty of room. It's far less dangerous than shooting out tires or just waiting for the guy to crash.

Plus, it's good for the media. Win-Win!

makes me think of lone star having their own tv crews and do their damnedest to look good while recording...

And you better bet that Ares-affiliated news stations are trying their darnedest to play the ones where the Star look like idiots!

It's a ratings game in a lot of ways!

After all, things like this is how Desert Wars, Combat Cycle, and Urban Brawl started, and became big money!

This post brought to you by the Winnipeg Black Devils, who are the odds on favourite this year for Light Infantry Skirmishing at Desert Wars!

"Hey, Janice, shooting the guy in the leg after he surrendered was pretty brutal."

"I don't care. We can fix it in post."

Oof. "High Speed Pursuit" is only one of the reasons cops speed, though. The other one is being in a hurry, which sometimes means "violent crime in progress" and sometimes means "I feel like driving fast and I am a cop".

Got it in one, Chummer.

And Peace Officers (Such as Lone Star!) are even worse!

"and i get to use the siren!"

I guess 'racing to the donut shop' falls under the last category, because I have personally seen quite a number of these involving 2 or more cop cars, full siren and all. I shit you not! I even got out of a sure-thing ticket once because of one.

there've been a lot of development on trying to stop a moving vehicle. CO2 Engine stalling, EMP disk launchers.

nothing yet works.

We'll observe Nas' technique for getting a car to stop near the end of my latest story. Coming out... Whenever!

See my Singature for details! (His story is the second one.).

Well, the laser space frisbees may not work, but the whole Grid Guide thing should cut down on high-speed pursuits in 2070. Given that most crimes are not in fact committed by skilled professionals with good planning, LoneStar or whoever controls traffic could just tell the car to stop and expect that it would work much of the time.

GridGuide would also make things hard on Shadowrunners as well, who are more likely to be better prepared for the eventually inevitable high-speed persuit (If for nothing else but because, damnit, the Rigger demanded one!).

Wow, look at that, suddenly well spaced out cars are tightening up, and slowing down, so the 'Runners either plow through traffic, or are shifted along to that nice, handy Lone Star Road Block!

That is, when GridGuide and Lone Star are on Good Terms. When not, wow, look at that, the 'Runners get nice, clear traffic all the way to the Barrens!

Has it ever occured to you that maybe they do it to stop the bad guy and do their job?

I'm starting to sense some trends around here between this and the "Walmart Guns" thread...

Anyway, I'm with Critias on this one (again). Until there's a better way to stop fleeing criminals, high speed pursuit seems a helluva lot better than "Golly gee shucks. That dangerous criminal just isn't going to cooperate and pull over. I guess I'll just have to let him go and hope I run into him the next time he robs a convenience store/rapes a college coed/carjacks somebody".

When local law enforcement can buy Predator aerial surveillance drones, then I'm all about letting the d-bag go and hitting him with a Hellfire rocket when he gets home. Of coarse, home could be an apartment complex full of women and children. Certainly nothing dangerous about sending a SWAT team in to get the guy, right?

A bird in the hand...

-------

Edit: Oh yeah, and back on topic- GridGuide and aerial surveillance drones would certainly make life difficult for a shadowrunner. I can see where high speed car chases in 2070 would be inherently more violent than RL now-a-days.

Police forces in other places do think they have a better solution, and have spent some resources pitching that 'better solution' to the people. The people obviously feel the better solution is better too because they don;t complain about it. Obviously people in the US feel it's not a better solution. It's a debate that can go round and round.

However, the UK/AU techniques would be logically extended to 2070, because the strategies that the police in UK/AU/Euro zone us (get ahead of the criminal via radio, deploy barricades and roadspikes, use helicopters to track) are much more powerful in a world with more drones and survelliance. You can have robots manually deploy roadspikes, and UAVs track the driver, no problem.

Could you use an industrial size HERF gun to stop a car?

Nah, you'd just deploy a swarm of hunterkiller drones to crawl into his engine bay and cut the fuel line. Less likely to screw passersby as the car will identify itself via RFID.

I think he may be questioning the method of action rather than the purpose of that action.

I mean, if in an age of internet, cell-phone, and radio-capable police, there's GENERALLY not too much reason to do a high-speed pursuit. It's far easier and more efficient to just tell Bob down the way to pull out some spike strips and prep to lay them on 12th, 13th, and Main streets if the car gets close. I know that's pretty much SOP for the California Highway Patrol if a chase approaches dangerous speeds. I think their number is 95 mph?

Of course, I admit, the CHP probably have more spike strips than the average state troopers.

No, read his post. He was questioning their purpose. "Is it for the pure entertainment value," blaming it on American culture, etc, etc. 'Cause, y'know, we're all just a bunch of rootin'-tootin' action movie star cowboys, over here in the States, and the cops pile into their cars and risk their lives going triple-digit speeds because it looks fun, not because it's their job, or to try and catch a fleeing criminal, or anything.

And it's a pretty old video (~4 years, IIRC). Most parts of the country have updated chase policies, and come up with all sorts of fancy new toys to use, since it was filmed.

Regardless, it seems silly to me to place the blame for high speed chases on the cops, rather than on the fleeing criminals who instigate them. You can dislike high speed chases -- I do, I know the cops do, I know most citizens do -- but blaming the cops for them, not the bad guys who run in the first place (after commiting a crime in the first place), and saying the cops are the one who endanger the civilians on the streets with a chase is just ridiculous.

While it is true that cops aren't the cause for these chases, they can stop them by not going along with them...
I know some cops who have clearly stated that high speed chases are the stupidest thing since "How to learn French" was translated in French...
They say that in the heat of the moment, catching the guy seems more important and they needlessly endangere themselves and others...
So having a No-High-Speed policy would be good and just because you don't do high speed doesn't mean you don't do pursuit...

Now especially in 2070 this should be true, with all the flying drones that can do the actual pursuit...

There are problems with just letting the skyspy track the perp.

1) they can't always be on station, so the groundhogs have to keep the perp in sight until the flyboys can get overhead.

2) it can be relatively easy to evade aerial surveillance if it isn't backed up by people on the ground.

3) the flyboys probably lack the capacity to stop the runner alone, so if the ground troops can't keep up, they may be able to leave the jurisdiction of the pursuing force without any chance of being stopped.

Chase cars have their place, but are dangerous and if alternative methods that are less dangerous can be used, they should be.

But PITs like that? Reckless lack of training and commitment, I call it. The objective of catching a perp is to put them *under control* not knock them out of it. If those several police cars had been properly trained, the first contact would have been the last and there would have been no spin into oncoming traffic.

I still say it's because most cops feel sorry for Rosco, and really want to "Git dem Duke Boys!"

I think its cause in part here we have some heavier cars than most other nations..... trying to box in and force a 60's steel frame Mustang won't work. Those cop cars are robust and impact resistant, but if a higher mass vehicle makes the move on them first, they're gonna be the ones out of control. By approaching from behind and impacting the rear of the vehicle, they reduce the things a driver could do to avoid the box or continue the chase.

Now about shadowrun, I wonder how many star agents have gotten used to the GridGuide being under their control? What about vehicles that aren't on the guide?

I'm fairly certain that the best tool for law enforcement in a car chase isn't a faster car or an aerial asset, but a radio.

"Can't outrun a Motorola."

No, but if you don't have current intel on their position, they can change directions when no one is looking.

Vehicles not running on Grid Guide probably get engulfed by a force 6 plant spirit and dragged off the road.

But seriously, that must set off all kinds of alarms. Besides, doesn't grid guide essentially own the roads? Driving on a grid guided road without grid guide might be considered trespassing. Or theft of services.

Yes, but how quickly would it be detected? If at all? Grid Guide can't just be pressure sensitive or It would report motorcycles on the road everytime a troll went to stuffershack. In particular, my cars have been modded to modern engines, modern sensors, modern comp with no WiFi and a DataJack. How does the guide detect objects that don't report to it or broadcast signals to it?

Or draw electricity from it in the case of Multi-Fuel Vehicles?

GridGuide isn't the end-all/be-all it advertises for perfect traffic control. Only for those people that buy it's services.

If you don't subscribe to GridGuide, you don't get the Up-To-Date Traffic Control system that ensures you get to your destination as quickly as possible. But not quite as quickly as the person that bought the Deluxe package GridGuide, who gets priority lane changes, and three free roadside assistance calls every year.