My players are beginning to submit their character designs to me for an SR4 game I am starting next weekend. Unfortunately, I, the GM am a newbie to SR4, I started with SR1 to SR2, and even played (not GMed) a little of SR3. With all the changes though, I am feeling rather tentative, so I will only be using the basic book (I got the 1.3 printing).

That said, my players have expressed their desires to play a group composed as follows:
PC1 - Female Elven Combat Face, also doubles as their rigger (minor)
PC2 - Male Human Adept (Katana specialist)
PC3 - Male Troll CyberSam (twin to PC 4), also doubles as their rigger (minor)
PC4 - Male Troll CyberSam (twin to PC 3), also doubles as their rigger (minor)
PC5 - Male Human Mage (using Priest as his type)
PC6 - Male Dwarven Combat Hacker

I'm checking them out and wondering if we understood the rules.

For example, the standard weapon of most of the PCs is:
Ares Predator IV (has built in smartgun) modified to add Low-Light, Flare Compensation, Thermographic, Vision Enhancement 3, Vision Magnification to the integral smartgun and then further modified by adding skinlink, a barrel mounted Gas Vent 2 system. This should cost about 1,250 , but are all these modifications allowable and necessary?

As none bought cyber-eyes/ears, they are all wearing contact lenses with Flare Compensation, Image Link, and Smartlink, together with skinlink of course.

Furthermore, commlink. Their personal versions are a ubermodified Meta Link (upgraded to Response 6) using a Novatech Navi OS (upgraded to Firewall 6 and System 6). The modifications were done by the Dwarf Hacker who also installed various other programs in their commlinks (just in case they need to back him up). Those that don't have datajacks have 'trodes. The question is, do they still need to buy the AR gloves? Assuming they intend to go in hot?

I'm very surprised, other than the two trolls, these are the least cybered characters these guys (I've played with some of them since '87) have ever had.

Any advise you gentlebeings can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Personally I'd ask that the commlink upgrades be done in-game and those who want to use the trodes to have sim modules. The vision mods to the camera are ok, but they should not get the bonuses unless the guns are in use. Otherwise, looks alright.

Regarding the Predators, as I understand it (and maybe I'm wrong) you can't add those enhancements to the smartlink itself. You'd need an Imaging Scope, which is what you'd apply the modifcations to. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Is the Hacker cracking programs, firewall, etc to install on multiple commlinks? If so, I'd suggest that be done in-game, rather than pre-game. That's your call though.

On the other hand, if they paid for everything with starting resources, then don't worry about it.

-paws

The Predators have the smartgun system built in. You need some type of imaging device (contacts, goggles, cybereyes, etc.) with an image link to display external data such as info from your commlink, then you add in the smartlink and other imaging enhancements to your imaging device.

Well for one thing I've never found, in any edition, that SR works will with a six person group. But I guess you guys worked that out already.

Without seeing the character sheets it looks like you've got the three worlds covered (Matrix, Magic, Meat)

Tricking out a gun is fine.

I'm not sure if you can go hot with trodes though. I'm away from my book and my guys use jacks or wouldn't want to go hot anyway.

Contact lenses business is RAW, though I think it's getting a bit ahead of even the SR4 tech curve.

On that note a wonderful thing about SR4 is glitches. See there's a lot of annoying things that can happen in real life that would be silly to have special game rules. You get to add them in with glitches.

What I'm saying is sometime when they glitch an athletics or damage roll have one of those contacts pop out.

Not sure why your people aren't more cybered. Are they actually running on less than they could or is it just that they blew all their cash on a couple top of the line pieces of equipment in order to leave themselves open for more future enhancement? Two to four choice pieces of bioware can easily use up all starting resources while only costing you two essense.

Oh spend a little time thinking about how your goign to handle the face. (I've got a thread on social skills around here somewhere).

Also the matrix. You don't have a real good example in the book of how to run it. And unlike in SR1/2/3 it's everywhere so your hacker may be doing all sorts of stuff. A quick way to hangle things is to just decide to have all the ratings of comlinks be a certain number depending on the person and use device ratings for most other stuff (except with higher firewall on security things).

The hacker cracked the programs (rolled dice in front of me) and the entire team spent extra for their lifestyles to account for the time.

For the smartgun enhancements, I'm relying on this rule:

QUOTE

Smartgun System:
The smartgun system connects a firearm or projectile weapon directly to a user’s smartlink (see p. 323). It incorporates a laser range finder and a small camera, and keeps track of ammunition, heat buildup, and material stress. It allows a smartlinked character to mentally switch between gun modes, eject clips, and fire the gun without pulling the trigger. The camera allows for targeted shooting around corners, without exposing oneself to return fire.

The system makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing the user to aim even weapons with a highly ballistic firing arc (like grenades) with tremendous precision over any distance. The smartgun system can also be accessed via wireless link, llowing for the gun to be remotely fired or to block the trigger (in case an opponent gets ahold of it). When used with a smartlink, it provides a +2 dice pool bonus on the ranged attack test.

Retrofitting a firearm with an internal Smartgun system doubles the weapon’s price. An external smartgun system can be attached to the top mount or underbarrel mount with an Armorer + Logic (4, 1 hour) Extended Test. The small camera can be equipped with vision enhancements (p. 323).

Am I misunderstanding the last line? They did deem that the enhancements on the smartgun only works when it is in hand.

So does this mean that the last line of the smartgun description is in error then?

Six is the maximum I'm willing to handle, once they get used to the rules, they'll go back to their gaming groups and begin running them in SR4 as well so that we'll probably have 7 groups (avg of 4 players each) working on a singular large story-arc that all 7 of us have been working on for the past 2 months. In the mean time, they (and I) are still running our other games (GURPS for me, d20 for most of the others, except for 1 group that is currently into BTech again). We tend to share our books (pool the cash to buy them) since all of us work. When we played SR 1, 2, & 3, we used to do the same thing, occasionally with a massive 32 players, 1 GM + 5 assistant GMs on a Holy Week special (Maundy Thursday to Easter Sunday).

As far as going into the matrix, these guys have spread out their points a bit, only a few skills at 4, most at 3 (since that is the average) and have decent attributes, but nothing maxed out. They intend to succeed via strategy, tactics, logistics, and guile. I'll be posting the finalized characters later on. Most have used up only 2 or less essence on bioware (except for the Trolls) and they are sharing (pooling the cash) to purchase things, including their "team van" and their "team residence" Medium Lifestyle + 5 guests.

How big a difference is the matrix now? I'll look for the threads describing that. Thanks.

No, you didn't, which was why I wrote that it was ok. It is a trade off. If they had put the vision mods on their goggles and glasses and worn those over their contacts, they would have access to the enhancements even when the guns aren't at hand. The way they did it, if they stuck the guns around a corner, they'd still have access to the enhancements even though they can't see around the corner.

Can they purchase duplicate enhancements on their goggles? Thanks for the suggestion, I'll broach it to them.

They can have as many layers of different vision enhancements as they want to buy... Contacts for covert, goggles for secure overt, smartlink camera (good catch that one), cyberwear. How they all fit together might take some thinking about.

One thing to be very clear about, though is the mage's use of the vision enhancements. They can't use anything that takes electronic processing to target their spells with unless it's been paid for with Essence. So they can't target their spells using:

Lo-lite
Thermo
Vison enhancement (though I'm not sure that this is an impediment: once you've noticed something you can usually keep it visible without the assistance - adaptive camouflage might require that they reroll the Awareness check to keep it targetted once they turn off the Enhancement).
Electionic Vision Magnification: I'd say this is how the contacts work.

It's not a biggie, it just means the mage has to get a set of nice Zeiss binos for long range work.

Ya know, i don't think it ever clicked with me to add vision enhancements to the camera on the smartgun system. I always put the goodies in my contacts. Ah well, c'est la vie. *note to self, upgrade imaging on the smartgun systems*

Ditto. I totally missed that sentence about upgrading the camera. Hmm. That opens up some possibilities.


Re: cracking the programs
Having the character spend cash on lifestyle while the hacker did his job was a good call. I assume then that this group is being put together with the intention of being a team, not just a bunch of folks thrown together by a fixer for some jobs.

As far as I know, the priest only has a handful of spells, most of his attacks will be coming from his Ares Predator IV.

Doesn't the contact lenses have a limit on what you can put (at least in the beginning chargen) based on limitations? AFAIK Contacts + Flare Comp + ImageLink + Skinlink + Smartlink = availability 12 already.

Pirating the source codes seemed much easier, Software + Logic Extended Test (I used the program rating x 3 as the threshold, 1 hour intervals) ... they still ended up spending almost a month cracking everything. But then again, the cost of the programs alone would have been 15,500 for each person. As it is, they are scrimping every they can save.

Yes, they will start off as a team, ex-military, remants of a (equivalent) Force Recon, perhaps maybe SF. Of course the whole set-up is now going to the dogs since 2 other local GMs want in (why is it GMs want to play so much?)

Their "standard" kit is:
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit & helmet (6/8) [Skinlink, Modifications: Chemical Protection 2, Fire Resistance 2, Insulation 2, Nonconductivity 2]
Ares Predator IV [Gas-Vent 2, Skinlink, Smartgun (Low Light, Flare Compensation, Thermographic, Vision Enhancement 3, Vision Magnification)] on Hidden Gun Arm Slide [Skinlink] w/ ammo load [EX-Explosive (2 clips), Gel Rounds (4 clips), Regular Rounds (2 clips), Stick-n-Shock (2 clips)]
Survival Knife
Contact Lens [Flare Compensation, Imagelink, Skinlink, Smartlink]
Ear Buds [Audio Enhancement 3, Select Sound Filter 3, Skinlink]
Goggles [Low Light, Skinlink, Thermographic, Vision Magnification]
Renraku Sensei (Response 5 <upgrade>, Signal 4) using Novatech Navi OS (Firewall 6 <upgrade>, System 5 <upgrade>) [Skinlink] w/ Programs Loaded [Analyze 5, Armor 3, Attack 3, Biofeedback Filters 3, Blackout 3, Browse 5, Command 5, Decrypt 3, Defuse 3, ECCM 3, Edit 5, Encrypt 5, Exploit 3, Medic 3, Reality Filter 5, Scan 5, Sniffer 3, Spoof 3, Stealth 3, Track 3]
Sim Module (Hot) [Skinlink]
Subvocal Microphone [Skinlink]
Trodes [Skinlink]
Medkit 6

With a High Lifestyle (10K per month) and guest payments of (1K per month each) or 18,000 per month
2 Bulldog Step-Vans (4 PCs per van, driven by the Trolls).

This brings their initial cost in to 58,275 each, barring any personal gear and body mods.

Availability isn't much of an issue with the character I'm playing now. Basically an elf face/adept. 8 Charisma, 5 Negotiation and 6 levels of Kinesics. I usually get my gear in a day or two ^_^

I tend to buy variations of different things, might put flare compensation and thermographic in a set of goggles, image link, smart gun in contacts so I can mix and match as well as keep availability down at character generation.

Double Post

Yeesh, 8 Charisma? Our face is currently working on 7 Charisma, 4 Negotiation (Bargaining Specialization), and Tailored Pheromones 2.

I've been playing the character for a little while now. I started with charisma 7, Negotiation 4 and 4 levels of Kinesics.

"I'm every jealous husbands nightmare and every womerns dream." - Unknown Hinson

To touch on this point really quickly, one of the things that has hooked me about SR4 is the fact that you don't need to pack yourself full of metal or vat grown extras.

You can pop those sweet contacts in and have low-light, thermographic, smartlink display, or whatever. The fact that an implanted smartgun link is not inherently superior to an non-implanted one is just awesome, IMO.

You can go with Trodes and a Sim Module to get the data handling ability of a datajack.

You don't need a specialized deck to remote control your drones.

Reflex boosters can be replaced with drugs.

Orthoskin, Dermal Plating, and Bone Lacing are cool, but you could just buy heavier armor.

And so on...

Of course, then there's the irony that mages get much more out of cybereyes than most folks because almost nothing comes in optical grade anymore (or so some would have you believe).


Overall, I think its a good shift. It lets you do a game with a thematic focuses on Cyberpunk or Ribofunk (which is kind of how I view the canon Shadowrun at this point) or, hell, even Steam/Gearpunk if you really wanted to.

As far as the Gas Vent System is concerned ...



So no gas-vent for Predator-like pistols according to canon.

I missed that one.

But yes, I do not think there is a need for RC 2 on a SA weapon. RC 2+ in burst fire or full-auto, yes, but not SS/SA.

The big deal is when people use Arsenal's modification rules to give Predators (et al) burst fire, or even full auto capability. Even then a Gas-vent cannot be installed into a Pistol, because it still has a pistol frame, not that of a machne pistol or smg.

Which makes me wonder why some weapons as written have RC 2+ while not having access to burst fire or full auto.

Fluff?

Okay, now there are 8 PCs and they have radically changed their mutual basic storyline. Now they are all former UCAS light infantry, discharged at the same time. Currently they are discussing the skill allotments. This is their basic idea:

Basic Training + Infantry School (70 BP)
Assumption: Basic Training and Basic Infantry School would give these skills at least at these levels. We are talking basic “grunt� level here, on active service.
Armorer (Firearms +2) 1
Automatics (Assault Rifle +2) 1
Blade (Knives) 1
Climbing (Rapelling +2) 1
Clubs (Staves +2) 1
Etiquette (Military +2) 1
First Aid (Combat Wounds +2) 1
Navigation 2
Perception 1
Running (Long Distance +2) 1
Survival 2
Throwing Weapons (Lobbed +2) 1
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts +2) 1

The following "MOS" were pretty much lifted whole from the old Palladium game of Recon, each of the PC's would be selecting 2, a primary and a secondary MOS, its not very realistic, but it's the best I could simulate. Each MOS costs 16 BP for a cost of 32 BP for both.

MOS (Demolitions)
Demolitions (Plastic Explosives +2) 2
Pistol (Semi-Automatic +2) 1

MOS (Grenadier)
Armorer 1
Heavy Weapons (Grenade Launcher +2) 1
Pistol (Semi-Automatic +2) 1

MOS (Intelligence)
Etiquette 1
Intimidation (Interrogation +2) 1
Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 1

MOS (Machine Gunner)
Armorer 1
Heavy Weapons (Machine Gun +2) 1
Pistol (Semi-Automatic +2) 1

MOS (Medic)
Cybertechnology (Bodyware +2) 1
First Aid 1
Medicine (Trauma Surgery +2) 1

MOS (Point Man)
Infiltration 1
Shadowing 1
Tracking 2

MOS (Radio-Telephone Operator)
Electronic Warfare (Communications +2) 1
Computer (Commlink +2) 1
Hardware 1

MOS (Sniper)
Infiltration 1
Long Arms (Sniper Rifle +2) 1
Shadowing (Stakeout +2) 1

Of course, knowing these guys, they probably won't buy it in this manner, but as long as the final skill levels are at least of the levels which they agree all seem to, more or less, agree or at least are reconciled to accept, as a fair and semi-accurate (within the confines of the game) description of what and how a standard UCAS soldier should “feel� like after a four year enlistment.

If they want this background, you should make sure they have a qualities to back it up, like they should all be SINners, can't join an army when you don't SIN...
They should also have a few contacts in the army and such...

Good point. Would the army offer them cyber? They aren't SpecOps troopers, just basic Light Infantry, I think they are planning to be 3 termers (12 years in service) so as to catch the tail end of the Renraku Arcology story arc in their backgrounds.

That would really depend on your own view on how the army would choose to enhance their soldiers' performance. Perhaps some of them were selected for a trial program or they volunteered (perhaps they didn't know exactly what they were getting into, but they were going to get hazard pay, so they followed the nuyen). Or that they paid for their enhancements using their own money but the army provided the docs. I'd say that as long as it makes sense to you as the GM and fits the vision of your game world, it doesn't really matter how the PCs get their cyber/bio.

For light infantry I wouldn't give them any special ware, meaning the 12 availability is still a good guideline, what I would do though, is make a cyberware package hat they can get cheaply as part of their basic training, but don't overoptimize it, give it wired 1, Cybereyes with smartlink and other things, you know, whatever you think fits the concept...
But unless they go for the "advanced" carreers (Spec ops, snipers,...) I wouldn't offer them any optimized packages, no advanced ware and no beta...
Just my 2 ...

Okay, after a loong discussion, my players have shot down the whole ex-military angle. So far only 4 have submitted (partial) characters to me. I'd like a critique if possible from you guys.

Here is the first one, twin Orks based on the Enforcer archetype (which by the way doesn't work, points wise), revised and revamped for Orks rather than Trolls. These guys pointed out that they can purchase skill groups and then pay to specialize afterwards, which sounds alright to me (what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander).

Crash 'n Smash (aka The Hardy Boys)
Name: Franklin & Joseph Hardy
Race: Ork (20 BP)
Sex: Male
Age: 16
Height: 2 meters
Weight: 130 kilograms

Qualities (0 BP)
High Pain Tolerance 3 (15 BP)
Quick Healer (10 BP)
Toughness (10 BP)
Allergy (Severe): Chocolates (+15 BP)
Incompetence: Armorer (+5 BP)
Incompetence: Automotive Mechanic (+5 BP)
SINner (+5 BP)
Weak Immune System (+5 BP)

Attributes (220 BP)
Physical
B 8
A 3[5]
R 3[5]
S 7[9]
C 3
I 3
L 3[5]
W 3
E 3
ESS 1.35
Init 6[8]
IP 1[3]

Physical Damage Track: 12
Stun Damage Track: 10

Active Skills (100 BP)
Close Combat Skill Group 2
Blades (Knives)
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts)
Dodge (Ranged Combat) 1
Firearms Skill Group 2
Automatics (Submachine Guns)
Longarms (Shotguns)
Pistols (Semi-Automatic)
Influence Skill Group 1
Con (Fast Talk)
Etiquette (Mafia)
Leadership (Persuasion)
Negotiation (Bargaining)
Intimidation (Mental) 1
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike) 1
Stealth Skill Group 1
Disguise (Theatrical)
Shadowing (Tailing)

Knowledge Skills (0 BP)
Gang ID 2
Gang Turf 3
Language: Chinese 1
Language: English N
Language: Irish Gaelic 1
Language: Italian 1
Language: Japanese 1
Mafia Politics 3
Triad Politics 3
Yakuza Politics 3

Gear (50 BP) [250,000Y]
Cyberware [84,000Y]
Muscle Replacement 2 (Alphaware)
Wired Reflexes 2 (Alphaware)

Bioware [100,000Y]
Bone Density Augmentation 2
Cerebral Booster 2
Enhanced Articulation

Contacts (Connection/Loyalty) (10 BP)
Mafia Don? (6/4)