So my players went on a run into the heart of the Yucatan. They fought Aztech heavy infantry, they stole millions of dollars of military equipment. They ran like bitches when the cavalary came in with gimble mounted 20mm depleted uranium death. They planned for something like 3 hours IRL, they called in all their favors, pumped all their contacts, and even did some mini runs to lay the groundwork for this raid.

As far as I'm concerned, they did everything right and were rewarded for good RP and good planning/execution.

Except for the guy who tried to steal "The Secrets To Aztechnology Blood Magic" ™.

This guy is new to the game and I've gone to great lengths to explain to him that this isn't D&D and his character, while incredibly powerful is not a "hero" in the d20 "I thwack with YES damage". Magic is dangerous, things crawl around on the astral plane and eat you, etc etc etc.

He is however a guy who has DMed various system for years and is far from a complete newbie to gaming in general. He also claims he's read and really like "Neuromancer"

Anyways, there was an Azzie blood mage and his ritual center on this base. They successfuly "disabled" him (read: they snuck up while he was busy and blew his entire observation dome into another time zone). I ruled that the charges they set pretty much surgicall removed the area where this mage was operating but generally left all the other creepy areas functionally intact. I mentioned that there were some computer terminals.

He got a drone to run up the side of the building, into the smoking aftermath and "download everything they have on blood magic".

So it did.

Which I translate to mean "The advanced computer system that manages their magical database noticed an obvious and retarded intrusion and promptly uploaded a dummy file filled with psychotropic IC".

This guy clearly states "When I have a moment I'm going to read through this information". So during the ride home I say that he jacks in, using his off the shelf non-upgraded firewalled commlink.

So here's the question I have. Is it fair to say that a psychotropic IC is capable of implanting the suggestion "Call Aztech Field Office X and spill your beans about how you came in contact with this information, than go back and amend your commlinks vocal logs to reflect that you did indeed make the call but didn't actually name names or give locations"?

Also, am I wrong for treating the techniques used for Azzie blood magic in much the same way that a nation would protect it's nuclear secrets?

I wouldn't think they would have it on a database like that, but that might just be me. Maybe show and trappings, but not he real deal.

They stole millions of ? I would say you are being very fair, after all they do have to live to spend it. Your group should be looking forward to a bright and possibly short future of running like hell away from the worst Aztlan has to throw at them.

Well that's what I tried to explain to the player without saying "You are not getting blood magic because that's fucking retarded" I spent the better part of 10 minutes explaining that blood magic is the magical equivalent of nuclear weapon tech and that "appropriate" and "smiliar" precautions to protect them would be taken.

ie. Sending a drone to jam a dataspike into a random dataport and use it's rudimentary search function to run "I wantz blud magik!" is going to get... not blood magic.

And I agree, I highly doubt that they would keep any substantial amount of data in the field where it could be stolen in a raid *cough cough*. The mages in charge would certainly have notes and maybe a few blood magic specific formula but nothing like "Everything you need to summon you're own unstoppable blood spirit". Furthermore you would need a dedicated and talented hacker to wack the IC guarding it and crack their encryption.


And yes the players don't seem to realize it but when the GM gives you lots of "free stuff" it usually isn't free.

But hey, they're all partying in the Caribbean Leauge for the next couple of days. What do they have to worry about.

I other news, increased activity at "Pyramid" in the Seattle Metroplex...

Remember your player about the million nuyen bounty on blood mages, if that doesn't make him change his mind, well, his not going to last long time anyway without being captured or killed.

Alright first off don't worry about your player suddenly being a blood mage. The rules are quite clear

"This metamagic may only be learned with the aid of an instructor
of the same tradition or a free spirit who knows and is
willing to share the technique. It can never be learned through
self-initiation."

Meaning that whatever he just got isn't going to let him pick the stuff up.

This means you don't have to screw him over. Honestly I'd just roll some dice as appropriate with realistic ratings, and let things fall where they will.

If he does manage to get the file and clean it of danger than it would have interesting information. Maybe on specific practices, maybe some research results, maybe some names of sacrificed people.

If you want to have things be exciting maybe have someone in there instructions for the construction of a blood spirit forumla. Or perhapse the location of one. But I might avoid that.

Blood magic isn't the magical equivalent of nuclear weapons, it is just a way to reduce drain. Really, sacrificing is just like centering only significantly more messy. Bloodzilla, as much as we rail against him, was a mistake resulting from the fact that the various rules were written by several different people. If you put the reasonable and intended limitations in as a house rule then blood spirits are not unbalanced.

Blood Magic isn't much of a state secret as it is a religious secret and can legally only be practiced by certain well-trained Aztec priests. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to steal one of their libraries. The only problem is that a magician wishing to learn blood magic needs someone to guide him through the process. Magic in the Shadows (superseded by Street MAgic but still perfectly valid where the two don't conflict) clearly states that people who learn blood magic without the assistance of a group or a sane metahuman instructor invariably go insane. PCs that go insane automatically become NPCs.

He might be able to glean some insight from the blood magician's computer databases but it is highly likely that the good stuff would be limited to hard copies written in human blood on parchment made of human flesh. Even if it were a blood magic how-to guide he probably wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of it without the assistance of an Aztec priest or someone taught by one.

Ah... well I guess I might be overselling it than. But with the bounty and all...

I'm not at all worried about him becoming a blood mage. In fact if he wants to that's fine.
I just hope he realizes that this will make him into an NPC subject to dark and terrible forces beyond human understanding.

Oh, if he somehow found someone to teach him aztech blood magic, wouldn't that force him to change traditions? That'd really piss off his mentor spirit too right?

Actually, yes they are. Force becomes bigger and more important the more you have. The ability to reduce drain (which pushes what you can summon) and then have the spirit jack its force even higher is totally obscene. Not as obscene as the original printing, but it's still fucked. Blood Invocation is a broken metamagic.

That being said, blood magic is available to a lot of traditions. In fact, all of the "old magic" is blood magic as people define it in Shadowrun. Blood magic is probably where everyone is going eventually. But it's different for every tradition. An Astartu doesn't do the same things to use Sacrificing that an Aztec Priest of the Sun does. Stealing the blood secrets of a different tradition is almost completely useless unless you were so far behind on your own research that you didn't even know sacrificing was possible.

All in all, players learning Sacrificing is basically OK, although it's very powerful. Blood Invocation is still bigger than Great Dragons, so I would keep it off limits.

-Frank

Most important is the "cannot be learned without an instructor or free spirit line." You don't even have to cock-slap this guy with psychotropic black IC, because unless he was hacking in Hot SIM, the IC won't affect him.

A databomb that ruins his commlink is fine, tho. Or worms his system and sets the azzie dogs loose on him, alternately.

I would see Aztechnology hiring a group of major Shadowrunners to go and kill the team, their family, and their friends. If this really is the equivalent to nuclear secrets I would expect that Aztechnology just dropped 1 million nuyen for each killed member of the team to a very serious team. It is not that they actually stole something useful - it is the principle of the matter.

This is not Aztechnology going out and putting it up in bulletin boards. This is Aztechnology being very discrete to make sure that even the mention of something being stolen from Aztechnology is wiped out.

They may walk into a bar and may never walk out again except as indiscreet bits of exploded flesh.

Well I wasn't too clear on that. I figured if black hammer works in cold VR than psychotropic IC would probably work pretty well in cold VR as well.

I think I might arrange for his mentor spirit to point him towards his own traditions form of blood magic.

say hello to his twisted twin for me *g*

Eh?

*face palms*

Wow I'm slow there, thanks.

While I certainly agree that the player's 'plan' to aquire blood magic was a bit underthought (though, in his shoes... sudden inspiration+lack of planning=wonky idea on the spot... been there in less reasonable circumstances)

Deciding that they've got cool psychotropic ice haunting ever computer at ever field site on the off chance someone does something dumb retroactively is, to my mind, so no the way to handle it.


Just ask yourself this: Would an expirenced, practicing Blood Mage actually keep a 'Blood Magic For Dummies' primer in his computer in his lodge? Why?

I mean, sure, dumbass drone plan may not have been a great way to retrieve data, but honestly assess what sort of files would actually be there and how valuable (not very...) they are likely to be.

Well this isn't some random field site, this is a temporary airfield. He didn't hit any random terminal in the building, he hit up a terminal in what I described as the mages study. He didn't say "huh, that's odd, no encryption?" when I said the drone "Easily gets the data."

And he didn't get jack diddly because I absolutely agree with you, there's no goddamn way they're just going to leave that sort of thing laying out. At best he's (the blood mage) probably got some personal notes to help him keep his shit straight during rituals. I do think that whoever put his terminal together would have the foresight to consider "Hey, what if an unauthorized user tries to jack in here and gank his notes?" I do think than an experienced practicing mage is going to have some decent security that will detect someone trying to scam for paydata.

Or he might not have psychotropic ice at his notes at all. If I wasn't a matrix pro I'd stay far away from that stuff on my personal comlink.

But as said, the best he will get is ritual notes and some background info on blood magic. Let him have it, as it won't change anything except a big target sign above him in case he spreads the data.

This is where shadowrun lacks some kind of explosive rune or sanity system to punish the runners for reading something they shouldn't have, in their right mind, even THOUGHT to look at...

Now, I don't find the psychotropic IC to be overkill in the slightest. Except I would have made the suggesting to be something more like instilling increasing paranoia against his teammates, and the idea that Aztech is the only one he can really trust.

And yeah... I can't really imagine the runners surviving long after they pulled something like that off. Really can't. Aztechnology just has to many resources to throw against them.

Meh, this is some arbitrary form of GM punishment when he made a mistake but blames the players for it. And sanity systems is nothing I want to see in SR, it already ruined CoC for me. But that is a different topic.

Yeah, well... Just go for the psychotropic IC Doc.
That player is seriously lacking some shadowrun-paranoia...

Well I gotta give them an out, the game I play is pretty chrome at times and this is one of those times. I get to kill on of my players for dramatic effect (he's going on vacation and when he comes back he's going to make a new character) and these are new players who lack... understanding.

And like I said in another post, it gives me an excuse to move my campaign to somewhere else /and/ teach a lesson about the difference between being greedy, and being stupid.

I think I need to print out a sign that reads "I will not consume a power source, no matter how tempting, larger than my own head". and pin that to his character sheet.

Plus, from a purely meta gaming standpoint. I hate killing a whole team because the RL newbie jacks up the run . Realistic yes, breeds some game table drama... probably.

@ Zak - so if I take my stock of the line drone and hack into a zero point facility I should just be able to snatch any pay data I want?

No. Doc made a good call, and our GM pulled something like this when our hacker failed to get a good stealth roll (why oh why didn't he burn edge w/ 1 success.) He thought he got lucky but the system basically dumped him on a fake node that said he had been granted higher access, while the drones started tracking us down w/ the he-grenades of pain stuffed inside of them. No I really agree that you get nothing. Now if there was a run to get this kind of data it would have been a better fit, and personally I feel that there was either a crazy high rank data bomb dropped onto his comlink, or a virus that will transmit the team's coordinates. In the Shadowrun world if someone pulls a bush league stunt like that and his character doesn't wind up dead then I would feel that it doesn't actually fit with the SR universe itself. I mean it would be like....

1. character jacks on the net
2. the virus broadcasts his coordinates to Azzi
3. Two minutes later a specter gunship with movement 10 and basically invisible on the astral creates a large smoking crater where the runner used to be.

Sorry but you can't blame a GM for keeping with "um... yeah so you get hit by the hammer because that was just really fing stupid."

I have to admit that the only reason I went with psychotropic IC is because it amused me. Logically it would be easier to have them hack his commlink and set his PAN for "Insert Kinetic Poison Here!"

You are right. I was more sniping at the explosive rune/sanity rules. And I am feeling itchy when it comes to overkill black ice on personal terminals/comlinks. I just cannot imagine people using them on their everyday comlinks. Especially not overly paranoid blood mages.

But what Doc outlines seems pretty ok to me. It will hopefully teach some of the players, the tricky part is not to alienate them by it. And he seems to be aware of it. GL, and let us know how it works out.

Err... The explosive rune/sanity was a joke.
I would NOT want them in my games...

All I thought was there are better ways though to expose the party w/o using psychotropic IC, because if a player does not get to make a will check to resist it they might gripe about that. They could also make the argument that if he is using a low end comlink and that programs are only as good as the rating of the comlink then that might also be one argument you might not want to deal with. I mean have the agent on the comlink itself basically get eaten and replaced with one that acts exactly like it. Whenever it has the option of jacking onto the internet and transmitting its coordinates. Less GM headaches if the players try to argue, and it is less of an obvious GM fiat.

Doesn't Black Hammer only do Stun damage in cold-sim?

God... let us not speak of d20's "Magic" magic system. It gives me hives.

But yeah... thanks for all the input guys, I'll let you know how it works out.

Course if you all got something else to add fire away!

I like the idea of psychotropic ice but how about after a certain point he wants to start sacrificing team mates?

doesn't seem too out there. The source was supposed to be used by AZT anyway so it would make sense to be loaded up-"It's ok to bleed the people near you, that's what we pay them for" as for dropping dime on them? sure, again this stuff is for good AZT employees. you find you spend too long away from the nest, you want to call home.

Even more fun, chuckles starts using the blood magic and people see him, they might figure he's legit AZT and start to repay grudges. sure he might fight them off but contacts are gonna be pissed if they can't meet without some pin head taking a shot at the mage.

Broken or not, the player has to abuse it first before it becomes a problem. Most GMs would just nip that in the bud and just not make it available. If you know your players a little better, you can let em play with it for a minute, and when that notoriety and public awareness start to build up, smack em with the consequences(bounty hunters, or whatever other flavor you like).

***edit***
IF it was me, I'd let em have it, along with the psychotropic IC attached. After all, it was a mage's study, in probobly a relatively secure room(magically and mundanely). Theres no reason his notes and research materials shouldnt be on that commlink, save for him being old-fashioned and keeping it on hard copy.

I'm with the "let him read the notes and possibly have it broadcast his location to them" crowd. He can't learn it from them, and if the decker hears about it, he might be able to check over the file and get rid of the tracker.

I'd shy away from using psychotropic IC, on a run that does not involve some mind control theme, or if it wasn't introduced in some other way before. Taking away a players choices, especially in a way that will make him "betray" the rest of his team just doesn't appeal to me.

I'd have the download contain some notes on rituals and recipes and acautionary tale of some dude that got himself killed using the wrong spell. So it could still point the character in the right direction if decides to pursue the matter after you talk it through with the player, or he can flog it off to the Draco Foundation for some extra cash.

Maybe a totally unrelated question, but what kind of drone did he use?

I could be wrong, but if the drone isn't designed for hacking and doesn't have an agent separate from its pilot the thing shouldn't be able to hack anything. Hacking would be beyond the pilots normal operating parameters, right?

To the "screwing the party" going off on your own op to do something way outside your skill set. All during an op that's been all about "Get in get out, don't get caught"?
Yeah, I consider that screwing your team to begin with.

The drone is generic crawler drone #4. It absolutely can't hack but nobody said anything and I just rolled with it. The fact that these HIGHLY SECURE servers suddenly just caved in and handed out info was supposed to be a warning sign.

Guess he didn't catch it.

If you're feeling merciful, you could always offer him a clue through one of his contacts. Otherwise, it's time to start swinging the clue-by-four. Aim for the head.

Depending on the mores of your group and yourself, you could cobble together some tastelessly grisly Blood Magic rites and see if your Mage's researches tend that way. I think something on the 'Link that will call home isn't beyond the pale, but be scrupulously fair about when and where it hooks up from, and if the group's infosec guy has any 'Link hygiene routines that they regularly run for everyone, the trojan should be eradicated either as a matter of course or as a Big Red "OMG, the Azzies know where we were at 13h00 today!" Flag.

Actually, this feeds my commlink paranoia. Best get a "Run link" for snaffling stuff: it doesn't connect anywhere without permission and gets purged into a "killing jar" setup once it gets back home...

The moral high ground and the directed fire high ground have both retired their characters in some fashion

And we are talking about a mage who bargained for favors with a spirit for the measly price of 6 dead babies.

Appealing to his "better judgment" didn't seem to work either.

The clue-by-four is coming, but I'm willing to give the players a chance to duck or at least roll with the blow and reflect "Maybe that wasn't the best life decision"

I don't think psychotropic IC is overkill, but I'd make it subtler: have it just make the guy unstable, and have the Azzies send out their kill squads. It'll be a lot easier to track a team who has an unstable member, and rifts in that group will probably start to appear. Bonus: this gives you a "free" run, because it's basically already set up for you.

As for the actual blood magic data, I'd tell the player that under RAW, he can't learn it from something like that, even if it WERE a step-by-step guide on how to learn blood magic. As has been repeatedly said here, it's more likely just personal notes on how to stay consistent with rituals, etc. I'd let that translate to some Arcana skill, though. Just because he can't start hanging out with Bloodzilla doesn't mean the stuff has to be absolutely useless. And it's probably extremely valuable in a monetary sense. Just let the PC wrestle with that choice: Do I settle for the Arcana knowledge, or do I risk the assassins, publicity, etc. that come with trying to fence this stuff to some other crazy powerful weirdo?