Just have two quick questions -

1. Are there quick conversions of old adventures posted anywhere? I ran Dark Angel this weekend for my girlfriend and niece, and now I'm thinking about converting the whole thing wholesale, but wanted to see if anyone else has tried before...

2. And having acquired a copy of Shadowbeat, has there been any conversions of the rocker rules?

Thanks!

Wish I could offer assistance, but I'm just going to redouble the request for Rocker Rules!

Because of the radical differences between SR1-3 and SR4, I don't think you can do a "quick conversion"..
..The best way to do it would be to redo them to "feel" about right.


Personally, I think the lack of scenarios for SR4 will be the death of it >shrug<


Wish you luck with wanting rules for anything apart from overgunned mercenaries..
..The SR rules seem make it quite clear it's a game where all the Characters are criminals, with an emphasis on gunplay.


The way the rules have been redone forces Players into certain roles, because nothing else works in the game

I don't know. I was able to eyeball it pretty easily while I was running it - I was just pressed for time and couldn't do an in-depth conversion beforehand. Sure I didn't have a whole lot of AR (that stuff takes time to think up) but I didn't see a lot of difference between 1e/2e and 4e.


Well, the game is Shadowrun, and people do expect certain things when they hear the name. But again I'd disagree, as I think that from the BBB on, they've given a lot of information on what the Sixth World is like from the shadows and the light (even though the stated intention is "ground level, gritty" campaign setting). It's a simple matter of having restrictions; I don't know if you're familiar with Wakshanni's 320 BP challenge, but as I wrote characters for it, I got a really good feel for making relatively "mundane" characters. You just have to watch the BP totals and Availability Ratings.

Hell, I've been thinking of doing a "Real Sixth World: Boston" game where I have people write up characters and walk them through their lives - shadowrunning being an option among many that they could pursue. I feel that the information given in the BBB and the supplements would enable that sort of thing easily.

...Searching the net and Dumpshock, I'm not seeing any conversions though. Hm. Maybe I'll be the first then

Well, here are two starting points:
Older SR Archetypes to SR4 Thread
Sample Character Archive

No Rocker rules, exactly, but a couple attempts to convert the SR 1/2 Rocker over to 4th.

Its been a long time since I looked at it, but... If you have Shadowbeat, I'd suggest just using the prices for gear from that book. The SR4 Artisian skill covers playing music. You can take a Knowldge skill for musical composition. Use the Edit program for you commlink instead of a mixing board, maybe? Or Edit, a Holoprojector, and similar things if you want to include Augmented Reality in your show. Income from producing music shouldn't be too hard to convert.

I haven't seen any attempts to convert old adventures to SR4. Most of it can be eyeballed or played of fthe cuff. You could probably post names and stats for old adventure NPCs, without any descriptions of them... Hmm. I'd run that by an Admin first though. Sounds like a good seed for a new community project though.

If you're looking for pre-made SR4 adventures, take a look at the free Shadowrun Missions. They're designed to be run at conventions in 3-4 hours. I'm hoping to get them started up with my gaming group in the near future.

-paws

You could, if you were feeling particularly masochistic, use the SR2->SR3 conversion in the back of the SR3 book and then the SR3->SR4 conversion to work all the characters...but that's really a lot of hassle for the module.

See, and that was kind of what I was looking for, to see if anyone had ported over the "influence" rules from Shadowbeat. They're very interesting, and remind me (if you'll excuse anime talk for a moment) of the way Robotech or Megatokyo use J-Pop Idols as WMDs. On a tangent, it's weird how much of Megatokyo fits into SR...

I just haven't had a chance to go in-depth with Shadowbeat - we'll see how easily translated it is.


That's what I figured I'd do. Just do an update to the character and location stats, since SR2 and 4 have different assumptions for tech.


Thanks!


Yeah, I think that sounds like a little too much work when eyeballing did me just fine

Since I have your attention though, has Remy from Virtual Realities ever made a second appearance in SR?

I tend to worry about that myself. One of the great things about 2e was the wealth of truly great pre-written adventures/mods. But to do them well requires some decent talent, or overworked writers.





I don't know...I've got a character in my group that describes himself as a street sam/rigger/hacker. Besides which, I think that those roles are the same ones that players were more-or-less forced into since 1e Teams have almost always needed needed (in a stereotypical SR campaign, I've always wanted to try to do a drama-heavy Doc Wagon 'mini-series' or something) muscle, a magician and a hacker. Blame DnD for that, if you have to blame anything

Little confused by that last bit ("nothing else works"), otherwise I'd say that SR4 seems to press players to generalize (have three or more areas of expertise) rather than specialize. That strikes me as being very different than other editions.

I've seen lots of Mage/Hacker/Face or Hacker/Rigger/Face or Hacker/Rigger/Gunbunny or whatever. On the other hand, the groups I've played with in SR1-2-3 really only saw people branch out when they had some experience under their belts and cash on their credsticks.



Seems... excessive. But, it certainly is an option for people who are sticklers about such things.



Ah, the 80's notion that music can change the world. *sigh* I'm sure the influence rules were at least partial inspired by Robotech and similar fiction/movies/shows/etc.

OT: Anyone remember the GI Joe episode(s?) with Zartan's band, Cold Slither?



You're tempting me to run home at lunch to take a quick look at Shadowbeat... hmm. I wonder if that's one of the books down at my my storage building. Bleh, maybe I'll just save myself a trip and look for it tonight.

I suspect it won't be too hard to convert.

Yes.

Do it! Do it!

There's all sorts of fun to be had with rules like those!


But you're not going to tell me, right?

Do I have to go digging through the Ancient Files?

Renny had a cameo in, as I recall, Target: Matrix.

Thank you!

Renny and Doc Halberstrom were my favorite characters in old SR lore

Paws2Sky : I don't necessarily mean that SR1-3 Characters can't be done [converted, created from scratch], but the rules really aren't aimed at anything but a minority of the Characters that were available.

Trying to convert those Characters is doable, but there's little to support that character in the game - Rockers, Corporates, Tribesmen all come to mind.
They appear to have been erased from the background of the game, in favour of generic 'Runners - the now common gun-toting, super-hacking, magic-using, vehicle-driving, sweet-talking do it all.


I really wanted to like SR v4.0, as it uses basically the same rules as Aeon Trinity..
..But I find it deeply flawed and much of what I liked about SR has gone >sigh<

But that's my view and I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy not having anything except the version of 'Runners encouraged in SR v4.0

I think I get what you're saying - that there isn't enough world support for running, say, a Lone Star game, or an investigative reporter game. But myself, I'd say there was.

Okay. So my aforementioned rocker influence rules aren't there any more. Maybe they'll be covered by Companion, maybe they won't. But that doesn't mean that I can't use the RAW as it is now and play a rockstar.

Let's use an example that paws already gave us in this thread:



Boom. Spice with magic, hacking, cyber, what have you, to flavor. Serves one party.

(there's more, but I'm homeward bound. I'll be back.)

Oh, I get what you're say now. I thought you were taking a stab at the flakiness of some of the rules.

I'm also a bit disappointed with some of the fluff changes/updates. I know that time marches on and all, but some of the things that they've marginalized used to be huge elements of the setting (the NAN, of instance). I miss that stuff.

Rockers, Detectives, and still have a place in the world, but they're less appropriate to general campaigns. Now, one based out of LA, for instance, would be ideal for that kind of social and/or information gathering character. Or maybe even a lower powered 'street life' campaign.

As amused as I am by them, Rockers were kind of a joke character in our gaming circle, even after Shadowbeat came out.

My real laments are the unbiquitousness of cyberdecks commlinks and the death (re)birth of deckers hackers.

Now that you mention it, yes, yes I do. And now a few chords for the song are ringing in my head. Thanks, jerk.

Otherwise, I think some of the flavor changes are to separate it more from Cyberpunk. Some are to adapt it for a new generation of players who are going to be looking at the dark future through some very different cybereyes. Besides, it's not like the old fluff books no longer apply. Up the march of years a few decades, give some attention back to those factions you like, and Shadowrun with it. (Okay, that was a bad one, I know. I just couldn't resist. Sorry...)

All in all, the system as stands is pretty flexible. You want cyberdecks back in? Make commlinks just cell phones/PC's for the everyman with low end stats, and use the former commlink stats for the new generation of decks. You want rockers? Look as some of the adept influence powers, and adapt them to some new qualities for influencing people (take a page from the new martial arts stuff from Arsenal). It's not like the game designers are going to come to your home, beat you soundly, while screaming "you're doing it wrong!!" if you change something.

It's not 4th ed D&D after all...

OK, everyone has CommLinks.

Does everyone have a High-End Hacker CommLink? No?

Hey, didn't most people have Pocket Computers? Cell Phones? SimSense Decks?

Certainly, if you had a home above Squatter-Level you had a DataTerm.

Guess what, that's all a CommLink is, all those combined. I described it to my Players as a "BlackBerry on Crack", which, of course, started a major CrackBerry series of jokes, but nevertheless...

Street Level people didn't have those items back then, and they don't have CommLinks now, either. They have their grubby little Certified CredSticks they've had since before Crash 2.0, and that's all they're going to get. They likely have a pocketful of wet Bluebacks (What I'm calling UCAS Dollars, see if you can spot the reference), and a few on the stick and that's it. The only thing that's changed for them is that it's a bit more difficult to beg at the mall. Guess what, it wasn't easy earlier either.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

They'd better not, else I'll be in trouble !!

I've been using Aeon Trinity rules for my games for several years [before SR4 adopted them]...
...And non-standard CoC, CP2020, GURPS, HERO, BGC T:NE, rules and material.


Any Rules Police will just have to get in line and wait their turn

They are still busy with hunting down BattleTech players anyway.

Don't worry - if WotC comes for you, I've got enough 3.5 books to cover you all. And I'm buying 4e. I'll be a perfect distraction.

Anyway, "rock" rules. It can't just be for the disenfranchised punks, right? Right? Pop stars? Epic actors? Amazing writers? Social manipulation on a wide scale!

Yeah.

Ironically, I just got asked about Former Trid and SimSense Stars being in power in Shadowrun.

The rules for this would help with that as well, which gives another angle that I really like!

I'm going to give it a look over tomorrow. It shouldn't be a hard conversion - it's just making sure that it doesn't go out of control.

I'm thinking Rock Band campaign - who's with?

One of the character concepts that one player had to put aside was for a Lawyer trying to do good for his Neighbourhood (He's now an NPC contact).

Looks like a ShadowTeam of Political Spin Artists might be in order...

Josie and the Pussycats.

I can't run that sort of game in SR yet, since I'm obligated to run it in Exalted first.



Yeah, that one has to come first. After that, maybe rock out in SR...

See, this is why these rules have to be converted, and not just because "SprainOgre" is a cool name. Social mechanics, especially social manipulation mechanics, are cool. We could just upscale the adept powers, but it should be available to mundanes too, right?

If there's anything Exalted really made me happy with, it was those social rules. Well that, martial arts, and Dragon Kings. Which is why I wanted playable Dragons in Companion. But I'm totally not a dragon / dinosaur fan-raven. Not ever.

I've been rocking out as Sprain Ogre since HS (ten year reunion is a month or so off. Woot?) Hell, there's a bunch of people in the real world that only know me as Ogre. So, yes, "SprainOgre" rulez!

What I was actually suggesting, is using the adept powers as a basis. If one were to want a social system, available even to those poor schmucks who are not Awakened, we can use the new martial arts system from Arsenal.

Make a special, multiple point costing, background for social manipulation. Social-Fu as it were. This skill opens up a number of special Social-Fu abilities that you can now use, from several different Social-Fu styles. Like Rocker, Politico, Media Personality, Actor, Negotiator, etc. These give you a nice little collection of pointed social buffs that can look like some of the adept powers out there (for example, some sort of "commanding voice" variant). Now we have a Social-Fu ninja, with plenty of tasty options for customization, extrapolated from the existing rules, so we've hopefully maintained some sense of internal cohesion and balance.

And it did suck that the preview for Runners Companion was an April Fools. And, sorry, a really weak one at that. Now, if there would have been a Rick Roll in there (or if it would have been put out on, oh I don't know, April Fools Day) then it would have been far better.

Mine's not far off either, though I've got two years to your month. Freaks me out.


I think building it along the same lines as the martial arts quality is a really great idea - you can start out as the nova hot pop star or be a lowly singer working her way through the meatgrinder that is the music industry. Or, you could go the NiN route and do all of your releases via the 'rix, slowly building a rep. Just be careful if you're a shadowrunner by "day" and a pop star by "night"...

So we should go with something like Positive Quality - Performance Arts (5/10/15/20/25 BP) and work from there?


Rickroll has become the new All Your Base. It hit that when my local radio station did something with it on-air.

I'm actually pretty calm about mine. I'm more or less looking forward to it even.


Exactly. Or maybe even a burned out pop idol, who's taken to Shadowrunning.


Exactly, and you can take it multiple times for different disciplines (you're trying to branch your career). Now I'm going to be trying to figure out stats for media paths all afternoon.


I blame Anonymous of course. More curtains and dogs would certainly end this "Rickroll" thing...

That settles it. First character I make to test these rules out, I'm making Britney Spears. She's lost everything - family, kids, wealth. Now she's trying to make a comeback after plastic surgery via the Matrix.

Damn you shadowrun!


Let's see: Acting, Singing, Dancing, Writing, Painting...

I know. I've been sitting here since I posted that thinking the exact same thing. Should we steal the spell creation skill (who's name escapes me atm) and rename it "Compose"? How influential can you allow? This is what I like about systems with simple bases - you can extrapolate without making entirely new systems to do what you want.

Not OT for the immediate disscussion, but this Lord Ben's Iron GM Challenge did challenge GM's to come up with an adventure that included, among other things, a musician/band/etc.

Maybe some adventure ideas could be skimmed from there?

-paws

But how did she afford the Leonization?


I'd also add Media to that (for the voice of the nation news sort, although that could be an acting skill...) and Media Darling (no real talent other then being able to catch and hold the spot light longer then they should), and if you're willing to change the name (and theme) of the ability a little bit, trees like Politico and Lobbyist. The positive quality becomes something more like Influential Personality at that point though.

Would it make you happier if I said Britney Spears-esque?


First off, I like the "Influential Personality" for the Positive Quality name. It gets across what we're going for here.

Second, I love "Media Darling", because it allows for characters like Paris Hilton or Kim Cardassian, people who are famous for being famous. You know what I mean?

So here's a few of the "disciplines" I was thinking over today:

Artist - Your creations are inspiring and they make people think. You're usually a low key celebrity - you're not in the direct spotlight often - but that's because you let your creations speak for you.

Media Darling - Hey, what can I say? The spotlight loves you. You've done something right, anyhow, because people fall over themselves any time you're in the news for a sex scandal, an appearance, even if you're just shilling for whoever's decided to use your fame for their purpose. You know how to manipulate the media in such a way that no matter the story, you look good.

Musician - Music is life. You're the pop idol belting out Top 40 hits for the nuyen or an Ork rapper spittin' out rhymes about the Barrens. Either way, your music inspires the crowd to the greatest heights and the lowest lows. *shrug* No one's saying you gotta be a crusader though, and the benefits off being famous sure are good...

Orator - Your voice is your weapon, and you're damn skilled in its use. When you speak, people pay attention, but some charisma (or a pretty face) will help you go a lot farther...

What I like about these is that I can see multiple uses for them as not only character tweaks, but roleplaying add-ons as well. Take artist, for example; you could play a hacker who's programs are so awesome half the 'rix breaks when you release your next opus. Orator can cover everyone from the Fire & Brimstone preacher to a news reporter entrenched deep in the Yucatan. Hell, Media Darling could cover someone like Perez Hilton...

Now to figure out the "maneuvers"....