Hi,

I am a newbie to Shadowrun 4th Edition, and so far im almost through the magic chapter and pretty much understand everything I have read thusfar. However I have a few questions about these three "classes".

1.) Besides the roleplay aspects what are the fundament differences between Shamans and Mages? Are their advantages of being a mage over a shaman and vice versa? I know there are some "aspects printed underneth the traditions ex Detection: Water for Shamans...what does that even mean?

2.) Where does a mystic adept fall into all of this? Do they need to select a tradition as well.

-Josh

not a magic expert, but as i understand it the only differences between traditions are drain attributes and spirit selection.

1) Drain resistance/spirit associations to spell categories. Same differences as with any other tradition.
Detection: Water for a shaman means that in the case of a bound water spirit, for example, a shaman could have it use its Aid Sorcery service for any detection spell he is casting.

2) Mystic adepts do need to select a tradition as well.

1) Different Drain attributes. Different Spirits. Shamans are supposed to have a Mentor Spirit.

2) Mystic Adepts need to select a tradition because you need to know how they resist Drain. If they can summon, you need to know what they can summon. Mystic Adept of the Shamanic tradition probably ought to have a Mentor Spirit too.

Other than that, there's not much mechanically different between traditions. Beyond that, its all about style and worldview.

-paws

Not anymore. Now you can be a shaman without a totem, or a mage with one.

It isn't a hard requirment. It's just very much in keeping with the flavor.

That's why I said supposed to instead of must. I'd still encourage people playing shamans to take a mentor spirit, since that's kind of the point. *shrug*

-paws
(stick stuck in the 2050's)

Yeah, a guy in our group runs a shaman without a mentor. But he never really found the "spirit" of the character, so to speak, and ended up making a street sam that he usually plays instead. I think he would have gotten into the shaman character more if he had taken a mentor spirit. They just help you know so much about a character right from the start.

One could consider a shaman without a Mentor to venerate all aspects of nature, rather than just one animal archetype.

But as has been mentioned, other than drain attributes and spirit affinities, differences between traditions are all flavour.

One disadvantage of mystic adepts not yet mentioned is their lack of astral projection, one of the handiest abilities of a magician.

i would probably assume that all shamans have a mentor spirit, personally.

taking the quality simply means that you get bonuses and penalties related to that mentor spirit, and are tied more closely to that mentor. you could still *have* a mentor spirit without having the quality imo. it just wouldn't carry the advantages and disadvantages that go with the mentor.

I think it's really important when someone says "I'm a noob, help me!" you should first help them understand the RAW without giving it your own creative spin. They want to know what the rules are because they're confused, and telling them your version without really making it clear that you're not talking RAW is going to confuse them still more. It's fine to say your own opinion on how things ought to work, just make sure to be clear that it's not RAW.

@Jaid: having a mentor spirit that doesn't do anything? Isn't that the same as not having one? Sure, you could worship a god or an animal totem, but that's not a mentor spirit, that's just a religion or even a superstition depending on your point of view.

I'd say its more like a tradition than anything!

I would say that SR v1-3 made it easier for new Players, because the Totems were defined and there was some indication on how a follower of a Totem would be - mannerisms, worldview, etc.
So much choice, as there is in SR v4, without guidence is almost worse than limited choices.

Character Templates are similar - they make it easy for someone to play one, because there is some guidance on the character sheet

So to help them be less confused, you should make it easier for them by making up new rules that give you less free choice than the BBB? Ok

Hey, welcome aboard. A few prelims that might help you out, as I see you've only got 10 posts and just joined. When you see someone say "RAW" that means "Rules As Written", or what it says in the big hardback book. Magic is pretty hardcore in SR4, but when building a character keep in mind that they're a person plus a magician, so you still need to pick up a few points in normal skills like Perception and Stealth, too.

To your questions...
1.) Primary differences between traditions, other than roleplay, are: which drain attribute do they roll with Willpower (some are easier to modify than others with cyber if you go that route and race can affect this, too), which spirits can they summon, and which spirit type aids which type of spell (that's what that example means).

2.) Mystic adept has the ability to cast spells, summon spirits, and get adept abilities, but for the access to adept abilities they give up astral space. They can get back astral perception through the adept ability, but only perception, never projection. Since astral scouting is a big deal for a mage, this needs to be thought over pretty carefully before you make the leap. Also, they DO need to choose a tradition just like a magician.

As of 4th edition, no one needs to choose a mentor spirit if they don't want to, but everyone can. Used to be (in earlier editions) that shamans got them and mages didn't, but that's not true anymore.

When making a magician, be sure to grab the Counterspelling skill, it's the single biggest help you can give your team. Also, skip the Banishing skill at first, as beating on a spirit works just as well without taking up your skill points. If you go magician, rather than mystic adept, get some Astral Combat skill but be prepared to run until you get good at it. Things kick your butt in astral until you're good.

There are a ton of threads on here about building a good mage, check them out for some ideas. There's some good stuff floating around. Hope that helps you out, enjoy!
-JBlades