I was just thinking, can a mage use turn to goo as an infiltration spell? Such as sending the adept up onto the roof with a small vial of acid, pouring it down in the corner of the roof and getting a small hole, then turning the adept to goo and letting him drip down the hole?

The 4th edition version is less a puddle and more a bag of jello, could push him through a mid sized hole maybe hehe.

I have thought about this before, but turn to goo is a bloody strange spell. What happens when it stops being sustained? It's not terribly clear.

Of course you don't need turn to goo at all. Shapechange the adept into a snake. Don't even need that high a force. What's the body on a python? And it can still squeeze through drainpipes. Of course, your adept would be naked... best send a mage with Fashion...

Now I have this idea in my head of carrying somebody into a mega compound in a biohazard-marked waterbottle, The 6th Day-style.

The spell's description doesn't really say what the viscosity of a target who has been turned to goo is, but the fluff does say "sticky" and "glue-like". I'd imagine it could be done, but would take a while for the gooey adept in your example to seep in. And then they'd be all nakedy.

It says sticky glue-like substance. Glue in bottles flows through a hole about 5mm thick or so (guesstimate)... which seems to be considerably more advantageous than say, a snake, which would need a hole a few inches big.

It also gives a barrier rating on the goo, which would indicate to me a certain level of difficulty in squeezing through holes.

I think the barrier rating is more for purposes of determining how easy it is to damage a character while in goo form, less about its malleability.

it's probably more of a non-newtonian liquid . . like certain forms of quick-sand . . or this icky slime stuff . . as long as you excert force onto it, it keeps its form more or less . . as soon as you stop doing things to the stuff it starts to drip like glue

Best example, cornflower + water.

Or youtube for the mythbusters walking on water episode.

Now, that's a really interesting idea. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

The only possible issue is as others have pointed out: the adept wouldn't have any gear.

As ornot pointed out, maybe shapechange would be better, though. Turn the subject into an ant so that he can fit through very small openings and can climb most surfaces. That is, if the spell allows you to do that. I'm not sure if you literally have to choose a critter in the books, or if any animal within the Body rating limitation is allowed.

So is this stuff like the liquid metal on the T-2000? Self-seeking? What happens if it's divided in half when the mage drops the spell?

hmm . . turn to goo . . would the goo be affected by SHAPE WATER or something like that?
non refined material, in the case of an adept magical, virgin stuff for matters of resistance . .

The spell says, "...any damage suffered by the gooey form affects the target normally." Although that's not specific damage in the normal game terms, that's basically chopping the person in half. It wouldn't be pretty when the mage ends the spell.

I'd have the character make a strength test to seperate the goo, as the goo is at least as cohesive as the persons body + net successes on the spell.

As far as shapechange goes, if you wanted something that small (Body 0?) you'd need to have an adept with body of 1-2 in order to be able to. With goo, you could have your Body 10 troll adept drip down the ceiling.

The spell says, "The subject can only assume the form of a critter whose base Body rating is 2 points greater or less than her own."

So, if you have Body 3, that means you can assume the form of a critter whose Body rating is 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. At least, that's how I read it.

Yes, and as I said, if you wanted something as small as an ant (Body 0?) then at most, the adept could have a body of 2.

I wasn't clear in my example. I should have used Body 6 as the example. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8.

But, I read the description a few more times, and I see what you're saying. You're saying the critter's Body has to be up to 2 more than yours, or a minimum of 2 less than yours. I was thinking it was 2 more than yours, or anything less than yours.

After reading it again, I agree with you. So, Turn to Goo is the best bet.

Edit: Fixed the example--forgot to include 7 and 8.

Exactly. Body 6 would let you shapechange to critters with body of 4-8.

so, if one were to hack the goo in two . . and put the two halves into a bucket so they melt together again . . what would happen if you empty the bucket into one large puddle again and end the spell?

The only problem with Turn to Goo is that the Force must equal or exceed the target's Body. So, if you used it on your troll adept example with Body 10, that means you need Force 10! The drain will be 12P, unless you have Magic 10 or more. Ouch!

Well, hacking the goo in two would be attacks against the goo, and I'd probably rule that it wouldn't split entirely in two until the character had exceeded his damage boxes. Thusly, you put it in some buckets, and then you stop sustaining the spell, and you get someone who was messily ripped in half.

Drain on a Force 10 Goo would be 7(S or P depending on magic rating). F/2 = 5 + 2 = 7.

The description isn't clear on such a case. So, the answer depends on how mean your GM wants to be. The GM could rule that the goo was damaged by being split, so the character takes appropriate damage. Or, the GM could say that since you rejoined the goo before ending the spell, the character is okay. I don't know which one is supposed to be the proper interpretation.

I'm going to guess that damage to the goo is generally from things such as fire that actually burns away part of the goo. I figure that poking a stick into the goo or dividing it then rejoining it wouldn't do any real damage. So, if I were to rule, I'd say the split then rejoined character would be okay.

Oops, you're right. I'm totally not with it today. I'll blame it on the flu that I'm fighting off.

incidentally, shapechange plus increase body and decrease body can remove some of those pesky limits on what you can shapechange into

If the goo is homogenious and doesn't have organs dividing it and rejoining it probably wouldn't cause any problems; how could it?

Of course this leads to other problems like what happens if we use Turn To Goo and then transport someone in 30 vials stealthily across the border only to lose 7 vials. What happens then?

weight-watchers gets a whole new meaning O.o

To avoid issues like those is why I interpret the goo to need to be together, much as the persons body would be together. Since the goo gets a barrier rating of body + net hits, I think the spell actually helps in this, and separating part of the goo would be the same as separating part of their body.

I'm with Tarantula on this. IMO that's what the barrier rating is for. I'd say that removing a piece mean inflicting damage, and in the few cases this would ever come up just try to guestimate what chunks are where. But I'd make sure removing enough mass to get into sticky (har har) situations would be fatal. Yes you can make very good arguments for homogeneous mass not really being able to take damage, but the rules say you can and well it's magic. There is a soul in that goo and the mind makes it real ... or something.

This is why I don't use that spell in my games, it's just too vague. On a side note one of my players incapacitated an entire security squad with an orgy spell, that was kind of interesting.

I was in a game where someone used orgy to incapacitate a horde of Ghouls. It was ... yeah ....

Also I'm really with you on not liking Turn to Goo. Did it just kind of grand father into the cannon because it's so wacky that it stands out?

Sort of. It was around in SR1 & 2, disappeared in 3, and now is back in 4. I've never really liked the idea of it, so I was thinking about unconventional uses for it.

Another though, could a mage use it to drip through a hole as well? By having a sustaining focus for the spell, and placing the focus in such a way that it would be in contact with him for the duration he was dripping through?

Would he ever be able to stop sustaining it? (Being unconscious while in goo form)

remember that anorganic matter does not get turned into goo . . so even if your mage swallowed a load of his magics to sustain the spell on himself and hope for somebody else to disrupt it later on . . the stuff would pop out and stop sustaining the spell *g*

As I said, placed it such that it was in contact with him for the duration of his dripping journey.

Think, a focus shaped like a straw, that he then drips through.

now that's an idea i did not get O.o
a stacked anchoring / weapon-focus-straw probably *g*

I just don't allow the Spell because it is stupid! It was stupid in SR1, and the stupid was resurrected for SR4.

+1

I had thought about it's use as in infiltration tool in the past, but it doesn't seem like that was the intention. The intention seems to be instant kill in a gross kinda way, but as it's only sustained you can in theory reform or something. It makes my head hurt, but fortunately none of my players have ever taken it.

re: shapechange, the reason I initially suggested a snake was because they can be pretty damned big (long), and still squeeze through stupidly small spaces, thus avoiding the body restriction. Fortunately my SR3 mage only had a body of 2, and made frequent use of the spell to shift into a seagull and scout places. Seattle, being a port city, should have loads of damned gulls!

best shape-change for getting into places is a cats body . . everything they can squeeze their head into, the rest of the body just somehow follows . . they are sneaky, stealthy, nimble, agile, they have enough claws and teeth to kill 1D6 Commoners per round, they can manipulate things with their paws and they are still cute *g*

Turn to Goo leaves the target with a pretty high Barrier rating. Even if he is gluey I do not feel its reasonable to have him "drip" apart by gravity alone.

Rather, it would start dropping, like a thin line of coherent goop, and as the goop seeps through, its own weight would pull on the stuff still on the roof, making it run through even faster.

That is, until the first goop hits the floor and starts pooling there. There would be no breaks in the flow, and attacking it or dividing the goop by beating the Barrier rating would simply be damage to the target, and might kill him if you divide a big enough piece off of the goop.

However, as damage in SR4 is abstracted into damage boxes and typically not loss of limbs, losing a part of your mass will probably hurt like hell, but its reasonable to expect the "biggest" pile of goo to be the "viable" one if it has not gone beyond overflow boxes of damage.

I do not see that re-joining goo would help, since the damage was already sustained. But really, that might be up to the local group. Maybe you could let it be an unattended First Aid test if goo finds goo of its own. (With bonuses if overseen by someone talented in goo physiology...)

With Magic as the mediator, you lose unessential parts that can be healed rather quickly, and do not damage your attributes. So yes, in essense a pretty darn harsh dieting binge.

If you take a person, calculate the amount of fat on them, then turn them to goo and cut away the same kilos as you calculated fat to be removed, its reasonable that a large degree of the tissue lost would be fatty tissues that are unessential, but still needs to heal before you are tiptop.

That you can probably heal it in a few days sorta indicates its very unessential stuff that is removed. I.e. fatty tissues.

But is the goo character conscious while goo? - Ugh.

Hmm..it doesn't seem so off to have the party's ork mage dress as a janitor, grabbing a push-wheel-bucket and mop.

He convinces the elf adept that it will be much easier for him to get in with this method. Adept finally agrees.

Adept stands in bucket while mage turns him to goo.

The 'Janitor' goes about his business pushing said goo adept around in the bucket in the corp, since, i mean, he's just the janitor(say they knocked out the janitor, stole his clothes and the mage sticks a disguise spell on them)

The 'Janitor' and his 'Bucket 'o Adept' get in, get to the floor needed, and when the target walks out of his office, the spell is dropped, the Adept cracks his neck and then janitor/mage resumes goo spell.

Team successfully completes job.

(ok, so it's not totally realistic...but an ork janitor might be pretty convincing. )

Given that it's not written out particularly well, it's really up to a GM to decide if it can be done or not (which, yes, is a failing of the spell's description in that we don't have a hard answer to that question, but it's not like it can't be worked around). Ask your GM. If he's cool with the idea, go with it... but I don't think we're going to find a firm answer in the RAW.

I think it's brilliant. Okay it's a save or die, but it also lets you smuggle people around in your backpack make them extremely hard to damage, tow them around underwater because they don't need to breath, it's brilliant.

I'll say it is definately fodder for creative applications. My biggest gripe is that the state of the "goo" is never mentioned. Is it solid, liquid, gel, non-newtonian fluid, silly putty or what? If the state is given then the rest is relatively easy to figure out.

Side note, redux, my favorite spell combo for sheer flexibility/hilarity is glue and levitate. Levitate the security guard into the ceiling and glue him there. Cast glue on the holster right before the guard draws. 1001 uses.

It was a hit on Jackpoint is what you should be saying.

Did you think tub girl was bad? goatce? 2 trogs one cup?

Ghoul orgy, it'll make you glad you're not playing world of darkness.

"Hey, that ghoul's mascara and facial greasepaint is running..."

You'd have to sustain both, however, as as soon as the decrease body spell dropped, the shapechange spell would lose its hold.

On topic, but off Shadowrun...

ah, yes, i was beginning to wonder when somebody would mention our favourite silicarbite life form ^^

Surprised it took me so long.