I was thinking of using contacts to boost the availability rating of starting gear by an amount equal to the lower of influence or loyalty. For cyber/bio ware grades, it'd be + 1 level past alpha for every three levels of your contact's lower rating. Frex A Gunner Runner (4,3) would allow you to purchase a HMG-2, but it requires your good friend the Marketing Director (4,6) to score you a cyberskull or your best friend the bioware division chief (6,6) to score you a delta grade Adrenal Pump 3.

Any thoughts?

-NR

I don't think allowing higher availability at chargen to be such a good idea.
But then, I like my game street-ish...

And it only encourages the munchkins to take 6,6 contacts.

*does quick math*
Just because that would allow you to take level 2 move-by-wire and other goodies at chargen? We, ehh I mean they, would never do that.

We've(my longtime gaming group) never used Availability at chargen-ever, as in since SR2.

Our games have always been fun, no one has 'ruled the roost' and owned everyone else at the table, we still have to work together as a team, and the games go perfectly fine. Are we a little higher powered than a 400 BP team that uses Availablility? Sometimes-but not all the time(sometimes we just make guys who dont need anything higher than a 10 or 12). And they aren't that much more powerful. Couple dice here and there.

I'll try to keep this short because i have an entire blog that's about to be devoted to the bit of Availability, how(IMO-it's subjective naturally) it's very inaccurate, fluctuating(something is available in 4e but not 3e and vice versa, even though the power levels of items didnt change? identical pieces practically of cyber and bio has one available and one not? legal, everyday items not available? stuff unavailable that's extremely non-offensive? Some available stuff godlike?) and IMO, works better as a 'nonspoken rule that you take crap that makes sense for your character'.

If you want something out there(a sleek gun for a ganger, for example), we ask that you attempt to writer 2-3 sentences about said item. If you're a merc whose a specialized sniper with *insert big company here* we don't even have to ask where you got the Barret Model from(naturally, we like to read backgrounds for fun and to get to know the characters anyway. ) Likewise, if said merc with a Barret Model, Ares Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle and 10000 rounds for it has a Squatter lifestyle and nothing else, we might like said 2-3 sentences of explanation.

THAT being said, i think this idea could work if you want to keep some ties on Availability but more freedom. (or, you could just bump it up to 14 or 15.)

I tend towards the same philosophy as a GM. In general, I require a background write-up for anyone that doesn't follow the chargen rules, in which case I'll look over both the background and the character build and decide if I like it. If I like it, it's in - even if it's over 400 BP or spends more than 200 BP on Attributes or more than 50 BP on Gear or whatever.

The thing is that virtually every other point based game that puts starting restrictions on gear has an advantage that lets you buy access to higher level gear. In fact come to thin of it, SR4 is the first I've seen that didn't.

Maybe I'm weird, but I seldom shell out a lot of points for contacts because the useful street-level contacts are seldom expensive. If you're munchkin player wants to shell out the points for better gear, I don't see an issue. Especially since contact availability is soley by GM fiat. As a GM, I'd rather have my munchin dump the points buying the contacts at char gen. By satisfying his instant gratification desire, he's handicapped himself right out of the box by tieing up those points, and who knows what issues that gear has. Sure Daimen Knight is your best bud, but if you ask for his help, he's not going to send you a crate of Predators & Alphas, he's going to send you the newest thing R&D has that's in desperate need of field testing. In a dystopian future, major patrons are almost always going to be some type of monkey's paw.

-NR

Yeah, still. I don't like the idea.
If a player want/need an higher-than-12-availability piece of equipment at chargen, he can still try to convince me to let him buy it.
With a good-enough background AND if it's not gamebreaking I may authorize it.

For example. one of my player wanted a cyberskull once. Although it's 16, I let him have it.
Of course , I never said there was no bad surprise attached, like say a cortical bomb...

The thing is... Letting the player have some exotic gear by GM fiat is totally different than having a rule like this.
In the first case, if you let them have something shiny, you're being nice/kind.
In the second case, if you deny them some shit, you're being a dick.

And if you're running a short SR interlude you might not have the time to check up carefully on the implications of a particular combination of apparently-innocuous high availability TN items. If it's just a rule, you're less likely to be surprised.

Availability at chargen and in the game seem to have two different functions. At chargen is seems to be an attempt at game balance(doesn't always work.). In game, it seems more of a 'Rarity/How Hard it Is To Find' thing.

Ok, take a Suprathyroid. That damned thing has some of the highest availabity in the BBB. what's it do? +1 to all your physical stats(counts to Initative). It's .7 essence(not bad), and 45k nuyen(ok, that's almost 1/5 of your starting money if you take the 50 BP of nuyen).

Is it good? Hells yeah it's good! But wait..it has that little inherent drawback. You need twice the nourishment a day. Now, this is covered by the permanent extra 10% you have to pay on your lifestyle per month(its not that bad, but if you add it up yearly it's a nice chunk of change, especailly if you live High or Luxury.) But you have to be careful you have enough ration bars and the like stocked up for when you might have to lay low in your safehouse dump for awhile, and i doubt your team will like you eating their crap because you have the perma-munchies. God forbid if you're allergic to soy(and yes, i had a character with this and a soy allergy so i can tell you firsthand. I think he paid an extra 25% on his lifestyle. I believe i could have cut out the extra 15% of real food if he had Luxury since at that point you like never eat soy anyway.)

Is the disadvantage huge? Not really. Is it there? Yes.

Anyway, this piece of gear with its sky-high availability is there. But...you can pick up Muscle Toner 1 and Muscle Augmentation 1(15k, .4 essence), Reaction Enhancers 1(10k, .3 essence), and Plastic Bone Lacing(5k, .5 essence), for a total of 1 essence(.3 more), and 30k(15k less). You get an extra Body point-kind of-the Suprathyroid does have the benefit of adding natural body. But you also get sturdier limbs and possible Physical damage. You get the same Agility and Strength bonus, and a Reaction bonus(doesn't stack with Wired, but it stacks with everything else, so small disadvantage here only). All of that is chargen-legal, cheaper, and gives you ALMOST the same benefit-and you don't have to munch out like you just got done smoking a troll sized bong.

Now, again, the Suprathyroid can stack with stuff. And yeah, I do often buy it for my combat guys, since we don't have the Availability. But yeah, i have passed it up before, and several times- in the cases of trying to save nuyen, or, for example, having Symbiotes or something else that already make me munch out double per day, or simply having a ganger where it didn't make sense, even if he was a bruiser ganger. Im not trying to make the thing sound like crap(it certainly isn't), but I really don't see it as being broken or unbalancing at chargen in any way. IMO, anytime you pay 45-50k or more for ONE item(ie, 1/5 or more of your starting cash), i find that pretty well balancing in itself. Not to mention the second example can tack on the last 15k(for 45k), and end up with a +2 to Agility and Strength. Or they can get a level of Synthacardium and some nice cybereyes with some toys. Or whatever they can spend the saved 15k on.

I guess my point is after the long windedness is why some of this stuff has availability that high. Only a small handful of items have this high availability-a rating 6 Taste and Olfactory booster has an availability of-yes, 24. Yes, a really good tounge and nose has higher availability than Wired Reflexes 3, the Suprathyroid or the Aztec Missile Launcher. However, the Olfactory/Taste Boosters(Rating x 4), are legal. I guess they're just hard to get or whatnot.

See, if Availability were solely based on rarity, i might be a bit better with it. Im wary at using it for any kind of balance because of things I explained-high Availability doesn't always mean ''broken, powerful and better'', and low Availability doesn't mean ''Sub Par Item''.

Yeah, I know the availability limitation is not perfect.
It's made to determine the rarity of an item, not its überpowerness.

The point is, it's only a style of play.
In my group, you don't have access to much at chargen, hell I even houseruled that 12 availability items must be approved by me.
In other groups, like yours, they are not using the availability AT ALL at chargen.

So, if you like the contact-availability-unlocker rule use it.
But I don't think most GM will like it...

So, just letting them having access to even higher availability / potentially screwy items is better because it's a rule?

You're right about SR* not having the possibility for punctual better item at chargen.
Why not make it a Quality then?
Something allowing only one item, with a variable cost depending of the availability, something like that...

P.S: Yes, I'm replying backward.

Or a variable cost. Every 5 BPs into the Quality increase your starting availability by 1. It can add up to alot, but if someone would want to spend 30 BPs to open up Availability 18 items...then i think it would be on them.

And really, in the end, there is no wrong way. Some folks like keeping a tight reign on availability for whatever the reason. It's not wrong, per se. It's not our style, but it's not wrong. Likewise, we like to keep it free and easy; i actually find that less minmaxing/powergaming happens the less restrictions are on people. (I know it sounds odd, but I really find it to be true in my experiences.)

But for those worried that it will unbalance their game; it's hard to say 'yes' or 'no'. Has it ever unbalanced our games that we dont even look at Availability at chargen? Never, not once. But all tables are different, again, and it might well throw off someone elses. I would say give your contact plan a go-or try it as a Quality and see if it throws off the game. If not, then you just opened up options to your players, and that's always a good thing, IMO.

I think for 5 BP I'd give them +2 to availabilty. That way for 29 build they too can have a Suprathyroid. Leaving them 15 points left in Qualities and 41 in resources. But it'd still require some background thought on the player's part before I'd allow them to take 4 levels of the quality.

Not so odd.

I once attemtped to write my own RPG with an eye towards publication (I eventually gave it up after getting burntout at around 5,000 man-hours). Since I didn't want to lose my shirt, I spent a lot of time pestering game designers for advice and tips. Sean Punch and Dave Pulver are two of the staff writers responsible for the core elements of the GURPS universe. Back when I knew them, GURPS had a two hundred+ page book (Conpendium I) that was nothing but oodles of advantages/disadvantages and a modest list of skills for character creation. It was a situation that was just begging for sodimization by a munchkin or powergamer (and remember Steve Jackson Games literally wrote the book on both of those).

When I asked how they balenced all that out versus the munchkin factor, they responded the same way. They didn't do anything to combat munchkinism. Their reasoning was that that was a GM job and that their experience was that hard, rule-based anti-munchkin measures really only detracted from the game play for non-munchkins, since the whole point for munchkins was finding loopholes to exploit anyway.

I learned that tidbit a decade ago and have continued to play, GM and literally collect RPG's in the ten years since then. And all of that experience has doen nothing but confirm thier viewpoint. IMO, a firm GM is the only truley effective antidote to munchkins, rules lawyers, power gamers, ect.

-NR

QFT

Indeed.

Hmm, put that way it seems very believable.

I also can think about it in a way of...forbidding things sometimes makes folks want to have it more.

For a real life example, when i was 14, i naturally had a curfew. Now, it was rather late compared to the average 14 year old, but my mom trusted me. I did break it a few times naturally, and yeah, i was grounded(there were exceptions of course, like if i was at my best friend's down the street, or driving around with a couple of 17 or 18 year old friends on car show nights. Yeah, i used to live in South Jersey. )

When i was 16, my curfew was pretty much totally relaxed. The only thing she wanted me to do was call her if i was going to be home after X time-and i always did. But the funny thing was-after it was relaxed, i no longer really wanted to stay out all hours of the night. I wanted to go home and sleep or play Genesis or SNES or something. It was no longer 'daring' to try to stay out late.

Likewise, i was much more into 'sneaking around drinking' at 18, than i was going to the bar with friends at 21. Sure, it was fun, but it lost some of it's charm.

I sometimes-even many times, see the same thing happening in tabletop games. A GM that throws a whole lot of strict rules down can have players, even non munchkin-powergamer types, trying to scratch out these points and that point and trying this. Not everyone does this; but none of us are perfect, we're all human(I think ) and we have quirks. In games that i played in where the rules/restrictions were much more lax-I rarely saw any of this. Everyone ended up making what they wanted, they ended up rather balanced(the power level of the game MAY have went up by a notch or two. But no more than that. The game didn't turn into a recreation of Ragnarok or anything), and the table was happy. Sometimes when stuff isn't outright forbidden or whatnot, it loses its charm.

To tell you the truth, Im happy making 400 BP characters at our table, with our few houserules like the Cha x 2 contacts, no Availability limit, and a couple others. If suddenly the GM told us to make 500 BP guys, i don't think i'd know what to do. I usually don't need that much(it might be fun for a one-shot or weekend game or something). I remember this happened, actually-GM was running a high powered game(SR3); I already made up my 123 point character and he said to take 200 because it was an insane weekend long oneshot fueled by lots of caffiene and sugar. I had no idea what to do with the rest of the points. I think i was buying knowledge skills in French Cooking or something by the end.

But if suddenly we were told to make 300 BP guys with strict limits, I admit, i might chafe a bit. Im sort of used to our current happy medium and one of my flaws is adjusting down-or up-to large extents quickly. (If i knew in advance, like, a month or so, I could come up with extremes on either end. Mostly the chafing/confusion on what to do is because when i get a concept in my head that I really like, I kinda want that concept and if I can't make it with 300 BP, i chafe-but if im told i get 100 more BP im clueless on what do to with it.)

But yeah, just some other musings. But NR, that does make perfect sense. Trying to reign in the munchkins(I dont consider powergamers bad people-they usually don't try to ruin fun for everyone, and most of them can be talked to and they agree to tone down-munchkins are gamekillers) can end up ruining fun for the table-and the point of the table is naturally fun.

It is ultimately up to your game and gm styles.

Though I have been gaming with my group for 18 years, I know them and trust them, I also would not lift the availability.
All my players are good people, friends I enjoy being around and we all work well together.

My groups personality consists of:

1. Wants to be 'the best' and gets upset when he feels his role is hindered.
2. Wants to be singularly unique, but ultimate in that uniqeness often with a similiar have a fault that is as nearly debilitating.
3. Will make a character that fits a character concept, to the max. Sticks to the rules and will argue anything that doesnt make sense.
4. Makes a 'normal' character, relatively plain jane. Very viable
5. Wants to be well rounded but good at something.

3,4 and 5 all fit in what I consider to be a reasonable group of players, these I can give free reign and feel very comfortable that they will not abuse the freedom.

1 and 2, will make the characters they wish to be (often times without growth room) and have no concern if they fit into the rest of the group. Powerwise.

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that making the 12 Availability thing a rule means you don't need as much GM input to keep the game sane in some areas, whilst still having some limitations. Obviously an "anything goes" policiy *can* be done with zero GM input, but given gamers' propensity for minimaxing...

I'm all for groups coming up with reasons for having more than 400BP each of stuff at start, and potentially being stacked with high Av-code items, but there has to be a rule concerning availability at chargen in a commercial game (obviously, from the heat generated) and 12 seems about right. It means you can't start with the best-of-the-best in the electronics department (mostly) and that there's somewhere to go, to aspire to in a standard game for beginners.

If you're comfy with assessing the impact of high grade explosives and signal (etc) ratings in your game, and you don't much care whether your Sammies can see the possibility of upgrading their eyes' ratings, then let the high rating stuff in on a case by case basis.

There's definitely an amount of an attempt to balance things with Av-code, and when we're talking tech, you have to consider the *inherent* limitations of magic based characters in a starting game. Yes it's not perfect and there are some things where rarity != imba, but it works after a fashion.