I'm recently gearing up for a new seven person game of SR4, and one of our players was turned off creating a Mystic Adept, because they're just not competitive enough, especially in a game with so many specialists.

So, I appeal to all the twinky abilities of Dumpshock. How do you make an awesome starting Mystic Adept?

I think the limitation of Force capping your successes pretty much scotches the Mystic Adept as any sort of spellcaster, unless you can get what you want out of your Adept magic points in 1 or 2. Spells of less than F4 are largely pointless, and spirits a bit lame at that level for anything active or resisted.

You might be able to build a 5-magic character with 1 point burnt out by cyber and bioware, 2 points in casting Magic Attribute and 2 points of Adept powers, with Stat-boosting spells and several Health sustaining foci... Magic 6 is expensive and you're going to need to make it a generalist to use its breadth of available powers.

Agreed. Generally they work best as specialized infiltrators with 1-2 points in magic (for counterspelling/invis/levitate/utility spells (shape material and the like)) and the other 4-5 points in adept powers such as traceless walk, improved ability infiltration, etc. At least, thats the most successful ones I've seen.

Alternately, play like a gunslinger adept, with 1 point in magic, for counterspelling. (Maybe throw an invis spell or levitate in there for utility), and the rest just like any other gunslinger adept.

Possession tradition Mystic Adepts make vicious killers with any kind of weapon once they get channeling. I mean, imagine a gunslinger adept with 2 less Power Points, but 4 higher physical stats and Immunity to Normal Weapons 8 that is also invisible and wearing a Combat Sense spell, and Deflection Spell in foci. Nasty. Lights up the astral like nothing else, but still nasty.

Chris

I find that the lack of starting astral perception and astral projection is far to limiting for the mystic adept to be useful. I could justify taking the mystic adept if they could do both or even just one or the other, but if a group doesn't have a mage (and they are at a serious disadvantage if they don't) then a mystic adept will NOT fill that roll. They are ill equiped to do so and still be effective in other ways (magic, combat, whatver...).
If there is already a mage in the group, then go ahead and use them. they are cool and fun to use and can be effective as long as they aren't being dependant on the atral perception\projection.

It should be noted that I consider astral perception to be vastly important ion the game.

elf with soft maxed charisma, charisma based drain attribute for the magican side of the adept, high agility to make him shooty too and then have him be posession just for kicks *g*

I'm actually working on a stealth Mystic Adept that is just nasty....sustaining Foci are your friend...

High Infiltration, Invisibility, Stealth, Improved Initiative, Critical Strike, and extra Unarmed dice is badass.

Basically cast Improved Initiative into the foci (f3), cast Invis at force 3, Stealth at force 3, sneak in then smack the guy with an 11S fist unresisted. Also, I have finishing move in case the first strike doesn't take them down.

After I initiate and increase my magic by one - 3 in Adept, 4 in magic - things get a lot easier. If I hit five and pick up a f4 sustaining foci...its over.

First, there are no limitations on how you split your magic. So, you could make a mystic with X/0 to essentially play an adept with counterspelling - something I did with one of my characters, as I prefer to be self-reliant. Other than that mystic adepts should not be designed as a hybrid, but rather a full mage with a point or two of supporting adept powers, or a full adept with a few low-force supporting spells. Best candidates for this are stealth & face adepts, however I currently have a design for a melee fighter / fire mage that I think will work well.

Lastly, if you are using the Street Magic optional rule for gaining adept powers, you could easily make a near-pure mage & gain your adept powers through initiation.

While not explicitly limited, the quality does have this piece tagged onto it... SR4, 79, "Though this quality is inexpensive, gamemasters should be careful not to allow it to be abused. It should only be taken for characters that intend to explore their nature as mystic adepts."

I'd easily call that putting all your magic rating toward magician skills is an abuse, as if you wanted 6 magic for spellcasting, you should take the magician quality (for 5bp more).

I've read that a lot on here and don't see why they can't be played as hybrids. I regularly get 14-18 dice in combat with a DV of 11S, can cast a multitude of detection/illusion spells, have 3 action passes a round, and generally don't see any problems with it. Most people are so focused on min/max values that they will dump a ton just to get one extra die...doesn't make sense to me.

I am not the fastest in the group, but damn close.
Not the most powerful spellcaster, but cast my spells at full power...
Not the best in combat, but use my spells and situational modifiers to turn combat to my favor and take down my opponents before they know what hit them.

Starting is 425 BP and I haven't played him yet, although I have played shadowrun since SR1 and I am confident that this build will work, as long as I'm not stupid and try to put myself in a position where I can use my skills to take advantage of the situation.

First and foremost, I say a hybrid is a bad choice because I have seen a hybrid being played before. He was not bad, exactly, but was far below what a mage or adept would have been capable of. You cannot be an effective spellcaster with only 2 or 3 magic in the shadows. You cannot be an effective adept with 2 or3 power points. As such, trying to be both is a moot point. Having 1 or 2 in magic or adept powers, however, supporting your primary side, can be very effective.

I agree with you. If you try to be a mage/adept by being a mystic adept you will fail. You will never be as powerful as a mage, nor have the abilities of an adapt. However...if you have a direct plan to take advantage of some of the easier to aqcuire abilities from both classes that synergistically combine to increase their power, then you are something that neither an adapt nor a straight mage can be. One example of this - if you are playing an adapt and plan to take Improved Reflexes the cost in Magic is 2 for lvl 1, 3 for lvl 2. Instead of taking lvl 2, simply become a Mystic Adapt, start with a sustaining foci 3, put 3 points in magic, and take the improved reflexes spell. You get the same thing, plus now can cast spells. No brainer.

Every once in a while I would play bards in DnD 3.0 and 3.5. People always said they were underpowered and that they would never be useful, till they played with me. Then they thought they were unbalanced. Go figure.

Its not always about the raw numbers, but how you use them in situations that can make things very interesting.

To the OP - unless you have a really good plan and a direct idea of how to build your powers together into something effective, you probably will be better off going straight mage or straight adapt with cyberware.

Not necessarily. A well-built Troll mystic adept can just overcast everything and soak it up with Body 9.

Adept power drain is resisted with Body. Spellcasting drain is resisted by Willpower+Mental Attribute. Mystic Adepts must still chose a tradition, and their spell drain works the same as a magicians.

I have seen the comment on these boards many times that Mystic Adepts are a bad idea, tehy don;t work, they are weak, etc.

I jsut don't get this. I have a mystic adept elf "assassin-type" character. He has Raven (+2 dice for Manipulation spells, +2 dice for air spirits;Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to avoid exploiting someone else’s misfortune to her own advantage) as his spirit guide. And he's pretty tough. Unfortunately I do not have hte character sheet with me, as the GM keeps those (wisely) and for the life of me, I can not turn up my private build copy. (My doss is in disarray as I am moving out of state soon.)

He has a Spellcasting skill of 5 and a Summoning skill of 2.

Anyway, as basically as I can remember he has a Magic of 6, split 3 (mage)/3 (adept).

His adept powers are as follows:
Astral perception and Improved reflexes I

His spells include:
Armor, Detect enemies, ignite, Improved Invisibility, Levitate, Shapechange , mana barrier, turn to goo (and 2 more I can't think of off the top of my head... probably heal and either stunbolt or mana bolt.)
I went heavily into the Manipulation spells because of my Raven totem bonuses.

He has a high agility (5, I believe) and is quite good in his specialization of pistols (automatics) and his blades(knives). He's got good infiltration skills. I can't remember his Willpower, but it's either a 4 or 5

He has a Power Focus 2 and a Knife weapon focus of either 1 or 2.

The build for the guy makes him a good shadow runner, especially in a group. His running team currently includes a mage, an adept (fighting), and a mundane, cybered gun bunny, all elves. I have used his Shapechanging and invisibility spells, combined with his stealth to make him quite the infiltrator. In a group, his role is that of backup mage/ranged combat guy/infiltrator. As a character I have made him quite untroubled about taking life. He will do wet-work no problem and really does not value other's lives. He probably wouldn't geek a kid, save as last resort, but he would blow away the shopkeep if he was caught stealing and that was the best way to silence him. He's not a mass murderer, but he will do what needs to be done by whatever means most expedient. He is not a white hat.

As he progresses, my intentions are to concentrate on Initiation and use it for the adept powers. I am pretty happy with his mage abilities as is. The GM started these characters as being under lockdown, so I got to use him without his foci for a bit... admittedly they are very important to his full power, but he was able to function well without them.

A note: Our group has decided that when using Shapechange, your Foci remain with you. I know some play that way and others don't. Admittedly, this makes this character a bit more powerful, but even if that weren't the case, he's still quite potent.

I will keep looking for my character sheet of hte guy or get my GM to give me a copy and will post it here in full later.

Vlad

I am insterested in this question as well. I have seen multiple threads about sammy/rigger, sammy/face, hacker/rigger, etc. Those all seem to be hybrid classes, but when it comes to the mystic adepts, everybody says they aren't effective because they are a hybrid. It seems that when people see mystic adepts, they automatically feel the need to put them in the role of mage, or adept, and, since they can't be a full fledged mage, or adept, they aren't as good (not everybody feels this way, but I have seen threads saying as much). Is there no role that is uniquely mystic adept? I'm talking about a party role, one that compliments that party without being any more of a liability than any other character is (depending on the situation).

I know that any role that a mystic adept fills could be filled by a mage, or an adept...but that would require two people to fill both roles. Maybe there is a role that needs someone who has some magic abilities, but doesn't need everything that a mage can do... "yeah, great, your a full fledge mage that can light the whole building on fire...but we don't need the building on fire, so keep your bic lighter in your pocket for today..."?

I am just asking so I have some info to bring to my GM when he tries to talk me out of being a mystic adept because he doesn't see the value...

Mystic adepts probably work pretty well when combining two similar areas - a mystic adept with the rat mentor spirit who has some sneaky adept powers, for example.

If I played one myself, I would probably start out mostly one or another, hard-maxing Magic and spending 5 points on my primary area. Generally, either a mage with 1 power point's worth of sensory improvements, or an adept with counterspelling. I would also consider aspecting their Magic, narrowing their focus to compensate for being spread thin in other ways.

Mystic Adepts also work as Magical Healer type, adept abilities of Improved Ability- technical skills (medicine and first aide) . If you only use one point of magic you can have a 4-5 magic rating too.

If you go the bioware/cyberware route, you can get some impressive first aid dice pools for healing tests, with larger than a 6 skill. Take Medicine(Magical Healing) mage type patients do not take a -2 dice to bioware/medicine tests.

Also take optional rule of Traditional Healing, things get healed very quickly.

WMS

Don't forget that adepts have that 1 PP Reiki power that is the only magical way to heal Stun Damage. They were smart enough to not make it usable on yourself or Mystic Adepts would be spell juggernaughts. As it is an adept with it is like a freaking battery for a mage.

Chris

Interesting - I was trying to come up with an actual, playable 3/3 mystic adept and that's the what I came up with - a healer support mage type. But you are right - you can actually get most of the healing benefit from the adept side with only 1 power point, to get Improved Ability/First Aid: 3 and Improved Sense: Microscopic Vision.

Details if you can, I do not recall what you are speaking about, Reiki is under optional Rule: Traditional Healing, there Reiki is bonus to healing via rest.

Also remember that 3 levels of Improved Ability-Technical(First Aide and or Medicine) gets you to the 1.5 improvement cap if the base skill in a 6.

Thanks I had not thought of Microscopic Sight.

WMS

Yeah, I was assuming a base First Aid skill of 6.

I am pretty sure he means the Pain Relief power on pg. 179 of Street Magic. Still, the FAQ says "Damage from Drain must be healed by regular mundane medical care and/or rest." So not all GMs may allow it. (And it is easy to get around not being able to use it on yourself - you just need another player playing a mystic adept spellcaster, and the two of you can heal each other's Drain).

Empathic healing is another one that's good if you also have a healer in the party, since you might only be able to heal 3 boxes of someone with 6 boxes, but you could completely heal 2 people with 3 boxes each.

Reiki is another name for Pain Relief, 1 PP, p. 179 of Street Magic.

Mystic Adept character here. Our group started in SR2, so when we decided to move to SR4 (after playing SR3 a while), we decided to build 600BP versions of our characters. Obviously, that makes it easier to have a Mystic Adept that does well in many areas, but I do believe Mystic Adepts can be cool at lower BP values too.

- Possession spirits, even at relatively low Force, can give a decent boost to an Adept.

- Learning a spell is 3BP, which is actually quite cheap relative to many adept powers.

- You can use Specializations and Mentor Spirits to make you a decent spellcaster and/or summoner in a few specific categories of spells/spirits.

- Counterspelling versus Spell Resistance.

Anyways, there isn't any magical recipe for ultimate-kickassness-against-everything, but if you have a character concept that fits, playing a (surviving) Mystic Adept is quite feasible.

Except they're limited to R3 at chargen, and their Rating limits the Force of the spell they'll sustain, and they're hideously expensive.



Gets you 1 extra IP, I suppose. Not to be sniffed at.



That's your three foci... And they don't pass through wards too easily, as well as being visible on the Astral, making an otherwise stealthy build either less prepared or less covert.



Yeah, you can do it good to mundane opposition, and it's a variation on the usual gruntcrunchers. I wonder whether you'd be better just going the Stealth Adept route, though.


That's quite an assumption, the way I see it.

I'm a big fan of Mystic Adepts, but how does Empathic Healing work with Platelet Factory and Trauma Dampener?

I'm hoping you will say, damage is damage, of course they work. Because then it could actually be quite efficient.

F3 Invis, Stealth and improved initiative are all solid. F4 is really good. F5 is almost overkill. I think an F3 at chargen is 9 bp. 30,000 yen plus 3 BP to bind. Considering what it does, that's nothing.



Actually an F3 Improved Initiative is 2 extra IP. F4 is 3 extra IP. Threshold maxes at 4 so if you any magic rating higher than 4 is completely useless for improved initiative. Again this is one example of the spells you can take where having a casting force higher than 4 is really not needed. There are plenty of others.



The ward thing is a problem. Being visible on the astral is only a problem until initiation (take masking). However this char is designed for recon and outer covert ops. Actual insertion is not his thing. Spirits, spells, and his overall stealthyness help in this regard. The campaigns I play in have a ton of long distance recon, because quite honestly most security systems you don't want to try to breach twice.



Mundane = not my thing
Straight Adept = been done a million times



5 hits on resisted Stealth, Improved Invis, then beating my 7 in urban stealth with a reaction boost of 7 is gonna make things tough on you.

Also, invis is quite possibly the best thing to help a melee character from getting blown to pieces getting into melee range. I would trade all the reaction, dodge, and speedy cyberware just to be able to make myself invisible. That's just my opinion. Plus if you read what I posted earlier I basically get it for free by putting my IP boost in spell/foci form.

I think that Mystic Adepts run into the biggest problems when they try to use their spells for DD or in an offensive way. If you look at your spells as adjustable augmentations for your adept abilities things get a lot easier to build and design. Just make sure you have one F3 foci (total cost in BP is 9 I believe...don't have the book in front of me...) to start, then start saving for more. My eventual goal is a F3, F4, and F5 sustaining foci. F5 - Invis F4 - Initiative F3 - Open (Stealth, Detect Enemies - Extended, Trid Phantasm, etc. all can be cast through it..)

Concerning Masking, my understanding of it is that you'd need Extended Masking to conceal foci, no?

As for your point on the use of spell, I wholeheartedly agree. [Element] Aura, for example, is an easy way to give you a quick boost in melee.

I do not have the book in front of me, but from what I remember the aura description of foci says that unlike SR2, SR3, ex. they do not have a seperate aura once bound. Spells do but the actual foci themselves are a part of your aura I believe...

What this means (in my mind anyway..) in particular dicey situations you can turn off your spells and mask your aura, or use extended masking to mask everything. Again, no book so I'm not sure.

Uh, no. Active foci have their own astral form and aura. Extended masking lets you hide their aura within yours.

The elemental aura gives me a new idea for a fighter. Elemental aura, and a decent subduing unarmed dice pool. Just cover yourself in whatever, and grab hold and wait. Just keep using actions to "get a better grip" while they burn slowly.

Hmmm... Page 191 of the BBB says: "When activated, foci have an astral form and will accompany an astrally projecting magician to which they are bound." So I assume that foci that are turned off don't have an astral form and look like normal physical object on the astral plane. Page 182 says: "Foci and other magical items (like magical lodges) always contain the astral signature of their owner (or owners)." [Italics theirs.] So... I imagine that a magician assessing the object in particular, even when off, will be able to pick up the owner's signature on it if it is a bound focus. Masking could hide the signature when the foci is not active, I think. Extended Masking (Street Magic, pages 60-61) would allow you to hide active foci and spells, the way I read it.

[EDIT: Beaten to the punch by the other Mister T. ]

I PITY THE FOO!

Err, I dunno where that came from

I don't think masking lets you hide inactive foci. They still have their own individual aura, and extended masking covers hiding auras that aren't your own. All that happens when they are inactive is that they no longer have an astral form (just like a magician who stops astrally perceiving). They still have their own aura.

Ah, ok. It would make sense.

I'll have to look up what I was thinking about when I get home, I just remember there being something different about how auras on foci work in SR4 and I thought for some reason that it was absorbed in your aura...but I think that's wrong.

Anyway...the problem with Auras and Foci is certainly not unique to Mystic Adepts, and I don't really see it as a major hinderance when comparing the effectiveness of Adepts and Mages with their Mystic counterparts.

For general low level snatch and grabs you should be ok and as long as you plan ahead to get proper masking you should be alright when going against more hardened magical security. If you are starting your campaign fighting against corps with dedicated magical security you are going to have some serious issues, foci, no foci, or whatever.

Despite the disadvantages of relying purely on spells, you would have been much more effective as a full magician with Increased Reflexes in a sustaining foci.

Because hybridizing with other character's does not put any fixed limitations on you. Hybridizing as a Mystic Adept directly limits both sides.


When used with one side supplementing the other, they can be great. This is primarily Adepts with some minor spellcasting ability. Notable example being an Adept Face with Mind Scan, Influence, etc. I currently have a character as a close-combat adept with Ignite (fun), Flamethrower (primary ranged attack), & Flame Aura (+DV, -half impact armor = win).

I don't see how this is true. You can still spend Karma on increasing both your spellcasting abilities and your adept abilities.

And if you pick 'Sound', you could have your very own soundtrack have a real impact on your fights.

IIRC, the Extended Masking metamagic description states that you need Extended Masking to Mask foci.

Or cast and sustain Trid Phantasm and make your very own Theme Song!!

Active Foci yes. Inactive I'm still not quite sure on. They have an astral signature the same as the caster, but do they have an astral form when inactive or does a mage need to make an Assensing Test to detect the Foci as opposed to just seeing it?

They're certainly less noticeable when they're not active. To the point of not being affected by Wards... I'd say you'd need to get a fair Assensing success level.

No astral form when inactive. Still have an aura. They don't have an astral signature the same as the caster, but can be tracked back to the caster. The make could see the aura of the foci and recognize it as a foci. It'd be an assensing (2) test to determine the category of foci. With 4 hits you'd get the force exactly too.

I played a Mystic Adept in the last game i was in. Had a lot of fun. By far one of the most generally useful members of the crew, ( I beleive) because i didn't overspecialize him.

Started out 5 magic (3 in adept/2 casting). I managed to find a few spells that didnt' need super high force ratings - extended Clairvoyance, extended Clairaudiance, Shapechange,..Detect Life, Mind Probe, and .... a couple of others that i can't remember. for spirits ... Man, Guardian, Task, Guidance, and Beast i think. Even (oversummoned) at force 4, task spirits, and spirits of man were damn useful. Adept powers were: Astral Perception, Increased Perception, one of the memory ones, Linguistics, and a little kinesics - again either no rating abilities or all at low ratings.

Played long enough to initiate twice, raise my magic to 8 and ending up at (Adept: 3, Castin: 3, Cyber/Bio: 2).