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Hi - I've never ran a Matrix campaign and since exploring the "Matrix fer dummies" thread, I'm amazed why not.

-Oh yeah, No "Matrix" sourcebook. grinbig.gif

Anyhoo - playing with the "Virtual Host Generator" and a mocked-decker (Who is actually not-half bad, sheesh, practise, no?) I managed to get in and out with a minimum of fuss and bother...

So, how do you allocate the value of payadata? No, not the "I'm going to need some info on this before my team blows it to hell" data, things like accounts, information, secrets, Dragon porn...

You know, stuff that a successful data-broker would be interested in acquiring?

I was wondering if there was a formula, like, say, Host Security Rating x Difficulty (Access) x sixe (MPs) = nuyen.gif Worth?

So for 50 MPs from a Orange 5 (easy, I know cyber.gif ) with an access of 9, you'd get...

Size = 50
Host Security Rating = 3 (Number of init die. Red = 4, yes?) x 5
Host Access = 9:

= nuyen.gif 6750.

Is this too high, should I just say "Ok, 10 Nuyen for 1 MPs?".

I thought there'd be more in the way of Paydata because deckers seem to burn through dosh faster than a sammy with access to a delta clinic, in programs alone.

And I assumed the usual "Lucky to get 50% of the actual worth" rule of thumb applies for Information as well?

(I use a 50% of actual value with a 5% increase in profit from every successful Negotiation dice. This really limits the "packrat with a chainsaw" mentality of looting bodies, homes, etc. How much can you carry, eh? Oh, like to see you do a dodge roll holding that. Yes, I do mean right now...." )

Flames, criticisms, ideas? Fire away. And if someone's covered this, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

Just a little addition to the above -

I worked out for the Orange 5 host, there was ~71000 nuyen.gif worth of Paydata.

Given the usual range of charisma-based skills that most Deckers have, and the "50% recovery" rule of thumb, I'd say that a personable decker may be able to squeese a little over nuyen.gif 32000 out of a friendly data-broker.

Hmmm, Time to start saving and start hitting those juicy accounts! Hell, and Excalliber is only about 20 months away... Oh, and programming, well, that might slow me down. And eating..., etc, etc...
Don't forget the little rule that states if a Decker gets annoying with constant paydata runs, he could just flood the market with information, thus making all subsequent paydata runs fruitless for a looong time wink.gif
There is a paydata formula. Forget where (never used it myself). And I believe selling stuff starts at 30% base price.

And you can't "flood" the market with info. It's an impossible concept. Info is ALWAYS welcome, since it is infinite and ever changing. You can, however, get killed by people who do not enjoy having their datastores raided, or arrested by task forces who track down data thieves.
You can flood the market with info if you sell info that devalues other info. For instance, "Bob knows you slept with his sister!" becomes worthless if you also sell "Joe slept with Bob's sister!" to everyone in the city.
Otherwise, remember that MP sizes are guides.

Kill Dunkelzahn.

-Damien Knight

Probably isn't a full .1 MP, but if it's valid it's worth a LOT.

Kage's example also includes relative value of information: not everyone will be interested in the details of Aztech blood magic, but for the right party(ies), you could fetch a hefty price.

Assuming you lived long enough to spend the cred.

i don't think it's so much "flooding the market" more People running out of handy cash. Thus if you have to wait a few days for a contact to get the cash avilable your paydata is going to worth less due to the degrading rule. Which you have to also remember that it's quite easy for a decker to reak in the cash if such constraits don't exisit.
it's much easier if the GM simply states that there is a maximum number of paydata points available for the decker to find each month. the paydata point system is aribtrary; its limits should also be arbitrary. to keep things interesting, a GM can randomize the number of points per month--say, 1d6x10.
Value of paydata... hmm. I'd probably go from a challenge & consequences standpoint. How difficult is the data to get to? Did the PC have to burn through any expendable resources in order to get it? How many people would want it? Is it worth tracking down the character? Is it worth killing the PC? Was there a buyer lined up beforehand or does the PC have to go out and find one? Did the PC stumble upon it or did they go after it with a purpose?

It's all very subjective, I'm afraid. No nice clean formula based on host and size of data, but the questions account for how hard it was to get to and I don't like size as a determinant anyway. A short text file can be far more damning than a bloated media file and, consequently, worth more.

The final element would be: how much can I give the PC for the paydata and still keep the game balanced? I wouldn't want to hand the PC a mountain of nuyen. Nor would I want to turn the game into a constant hunt for paydata that neglects the plot. Nor would I want to make that PC imbalanced compared to the others.
Check out page 50 of Matrix.
Interestingly enough, that's exactly the problem that crops up in the Genesis Shadowrun game. After a certain point it's just not worth going on runs anymore; the real money is in fencing paydata.

On the other hand, if you don't get a decent stack of money for grabbing paydata, you'll almost never be able to upgrade your deck and/or get interestingly useful implants. The decks are enormously expensive, and the programs even more so.

"Hmmm... I'm insanely good at making computers do what I want with this rating 12 skill, but I'm still stuck with the same MPCP-8 deck I started out with, preventing me from cracking any particularly juicy hosts. And I'll need another six weeks to finish coding my new stealthy attack program -- either that, or shell out sixty thousand nuyen to that cheapskate data pirate and pray that he actually got a non-buggy copy..."

Picking up a deck on an infiltration run might be a possibility, but it's unlikely that said item (unless you're breaking into some billionaire's private home) will be in any way highly rated. Besides, most deckers just don't do the whole physical infiltration thing. And trusting a corp to give you a non-tweaked deck as "payment" is, in my opinion, akin to trusting them to give you a non-booby-trapped gun that won't blow up in your face when you most need it. And that's not even considering the tendency of SOTA to leave your toys in the dust, something that magicians and adepts never have to consider.

Deckers, with all the necessary knowledge skills to properly do programming or deck-building, seem to me to be nearly as much of a karma sink as magicians. Additionally, they need the nuyen for the better tech to pull off big runs. A semi-talented decker with a nova-hot deck can slice through virtually any host's security; meanwhile, a brilliant and talented decker with an unimpressive deck won't be able to accomplish much because the TNs will be so high.

I love playing deckers. But sometimes, I get the sense that they've been screwed when they need so much in the way of nuyen and/or Karma to be in any way competitive. I've got to come down on the opposite side here -- deckers need the extra nuyen they pick up from paydata just to remain competitive. Limit that income to some degree, sure -- base the total amount a decker can snatch during a month of downtime to something like (Computer)d6 (count pips) x 1,000 nuyen.gif, or something similar -- but let 'em remain worthwhile if the GM's going to enforce the SOTA rules and other nastiness.
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Interestingly enough, that's exactly the problem that crops up in the Genesis Shadowrun game. After a certain point it's just not worth going on runs anymore; the real money is in fencing paydata.

[derail] Yeah, about ten minutes into the game... [/derail]
Nah, it takes a little longer. 15-20 minutes.

Not to mention it's something that deckers would do to keep themselves amused between runs during that mythical "down time" we keep hearing about.

It's not unlike a rigger who freelances on the side to pick up extra cash or the samurai who collects debts, repos cars or bounces at his favorite watering hole.

Well, I'd have to say thanks for the tips people, especially Grey's
Check out page 50 of Matrix.

Now, I'm reasonably sure I mentioned something along the lines of "I don't have MATRIX" - but I realise that things get lost in the flow.

Anyhow, I DO have "Target: Matrix", which is all nice for the funky backstories on some of the fav characters whose posts I've read (Yeah, 'Smiling Bandit" Rul3z, D00dz.) but, back on topic, I was wondering, as the DM/Gm/SG (ShadowGod.) was there a rough calculation?

Suggestions, por favor?


Dont Matrixin on runs take an awful lotta time, away from the other players I mean.

The first true decker we got in our group was very time intensive and thus devolved into a sub par sam in the end.

The next one I cooked up some backyard rules where I basically cook a hack into 3 combat rounds v a host.
simple but terribly crude and not very amusing or enticing for the player who would like to "evolve" a decker
QUOTE (BewilderedGM @ Dec 12 2003, 11:05 PM)
Dont Matrixin on runs take an awful lotta time, away from the other players I mean.

No, it doesn't, and thanks to The Idiot's Guide to the Matrix I no longer have to be the one to explain why.

Moonstone Spider
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Interestingly enough, that's exactly the problem that crops up in the Genesis Shadowrun game. After a certain point it's just not worth going on runs anymore; the real money is in fencing paydata.


Heh. You managed to scrape up enough money to buy a decent deck in the Genesis game? Compared to how much good equipment costs the runs pay a pathetic amount. Without cheating I'd never have the patience to run Renraku 50 times over just to afford an excalibur.
From page 100, SRComp, Bottom line payments:

Datasteal: 20% Value of Data
Encryption/Decryption: 200 nuyen.gif per MP
Hacking: 1000 nuyen.gif x Host's Security Value

Those are the three types of Matrix-related payments they had in there. You'd have to modify the payment based on the kind of campaign you're running, so just use those as a guideline.
Thank you Logo - I'll play with these and see if it suits. Otherwise, it's "Pick and number and hope" time.

Thank you also for the useful, and not so useful, suggestions.

Why the thank you? Because no-one suggested "Buy Matrix 3", that's why.

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