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stevebugge
QUOTE (Aaron)
Back to the Attribute + Skill + Tool thing,

Good Thing: Tests don't have to be Opposed Tests any more, and can instead use a single rating as a threshold.

Bad Thing: Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, will have to have a rating.


So what would the ratings for various things be? Or what would the qualities of various devices be in different ratings? Would it be worth marketing a Rating 6 Vending Machine? Is your autocook a rating 2 or rating 4?

What would a rating 6 Autocook cost?
Aaron
How about a Rating 3 smartlink? Or Rating 4 vehicle handling? A Rating 2 toolkit? We'd either have to go back to giving spells ratings again or follow the Wicked Wizard of the Pacific Northwest and make spell-casters use do-dads, not to mention adding a rated spirit summoning thingy. And what's your tool for Perception, Infiltration Tests? Or Running Tests; we'd need rated shoes.

Gah.
CanRay
And now we've gone back to the Homeless guy that's walking around, barefoot, screaming about how they were tracking us by our shoes...
sunnyside
Um. I don't know what house rules you are cooking up. But the idea of "ratings for everything" already exists. It's on page 214 (signal is on 212)

That gives the stock ratings of the internal systems for stuff and is included in the base price of the item. Alone that means you can hack your icemaker trivially. If someone tries to hack something the system just has to hope it detects them and will then try to shut down their connection as given in the rules and failing that will probably try to shut down all connections, alert someone, and/or reboot/shutdown.

Programs are added into that. A basic analyze program is pretty cheap and will get added in pretty soon. (by runners as well as everybody else). After that just use your judgement as to what someone would poney up for some extra security.



stevebugge
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 28 2008, 11:40 AM) *
And now we've gone back to the Homeless guy that's walking around, barefoot, screaming about how they were tracking us by our shoes...


Actually in 2070, they actually could be tracking your shoes, it's entirely possible that a pair of shoes would have a sensor RFID tracking things like miles walked (for your company sponsored health maintainance program), tread wear (so the shoe company knows when to send you a targeted ad for new shoes), and who knows what else. Heck your shoes may be able to tell you your weight, hydration level, and body composition in 2070 (those would definitely not be the rating 1 shoes)
stevebugge
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Apr 28 2008, 11:45 AM) *
Um. I don't know what house rules you are cooking up. But the idea of "ratings for everything" already exists. It's on page 214 (signal is on 212)

That gives the stock ratings of the internal systems for stuff and is included in the base price of the item. Alone that means you can hack your icemaker trivially. If someone tries to hack something the system just has to hope it detects them and will then try to shut down their connection as given in the rules and failing that will probably try to shut down all connections, alert someone, and/or reboot/shutdown.

Programs are added into that. A basic analyze program is pretty cheap and will get added in pretty soon. (by runners as well as everybody else). After that just use your judgement as to what someone would poney up for some extra security.


I was quoting that not so much for the implied houserule but to get the ball rolling on coming up with the "features" of higher rated everyday products. I like a lot of fluff & flavor in my SR world so things like this are kind of interesting to me.
sunnyside
For higher rated stuff I just personally use the custom comlink rules. Sometimes this might not be practical as the object might not have space for a comlink, but usually it does. And adding software is probably the quickest way to make something better.

Remember firewall can be raised I think as much as you like independent of everythign else. I don't know if this was in an errata or the FAQ or what, but it is the case and is commonly used in the SR missions adventures.

Speed Wraith
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Apr 28 2008, 01:51 PM) *
I was quoting that not so much for the implied houserule but to get the ball rolling on coming up with the "features" of higher rated everyday products. I like a lot of fluff & flavor in my SR world so things like this are kind of interesting to me.


I've often ruled that the minor differences in stats between individual items (say Wired Reflexes 1 from Evo vs. Wired Reflexes 1 from Ares) is negligable in practical game terms. Nothing that says you couldn't figure specific features for different brand names/products, but IMHO they wouldn't be more than a stylistic difference.
stevebugge
I kind of like the use of genaric device ratings, especially for more mundane appliances (Toasters, light fixtures, maglocks) but it's nice to be able to describe the higher rated items in a way that makes them sound good without just telling the players "it's a rating 5 autocook" it slao helps to be able to appropriately set up locations. Say a middle lifestyle apartment might have a rating 3-4 Autocook, while a low lifestyle may have a rating 1-2.
stevebugge
QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Apr 28 2008, 11:59 AM) *
I've often ruled that the minor differences in stats between individual items (say Wired Reflexes 1 from Evo vs. Wired Reflexes 1 from Ares) is negligable in practical game terms. Nothing that says you couldn't figure specific features for different brand names/products, but IMHO they wouldn't be more than a stylistic difference.


For more core gear I like this approach, it allows flavor without affecting the game mechanics. I'm really focusing more on the unstatted fluff items of everyday life that someone may try to hack some day, that would make sense to have in variable ratings. A lot of these devices are probably controlled via the commlink but may have device ratings of their own for following pre-set instructions.
Speed Wraith
Well, the higher your rating on your stove, the less often you burn your Ramen, does that count? nyahnyah.gif Seriously, an autocook's rating would probably translate directly to the number of recipes available. A fridge with a high rating can probably analyze it's own contents and adjust the temperature to acomodate all items. A really high rating fridge can probably cool different sections as needed as well as auto-adjust. Most of the features I'm thinking of would just encompass better analyzing of what the tool/appliance is being used for. Toaster knows it is a bagel rather than a piece of white bread and therefore toasts it appropriately. Maybe higher end toasters have personel presets for each user. Mom likes her toast burned, dad likes it perfectly browned and the kids like it barely toasted: The new Renraku toaster will remember each of your biometric signatures and preferances and prepare your breakfast so that it is always just right for you!
Nightwalker450
QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Apr 28 2008, 02:22 PM) *
Maybe higher end toasters have personel presets for each user. Mom likes her toast burned, dad likes it perfectly browned and the kids like it barely toasted: The new Renraku toaster will remember each of your biometric signatures and preferances and prepare your breakfast so that it is always just right for you!


I want this toaster, I hate it when people mess with the dials on the toaster and I don't notice, until I have my charred brick of bread. frown.gif
CanRay
And makes sure to Spam Mom's CommLink when it's time to order the week's groceries with the appropriate subsidiary company's products for bread, bagels, and "Frosty Pops Yummie-Time Breakfast Toasties".
stevebugge
That's the kind of stuff I'm always looking for. My players who hack have a tendency to hack all sorts of things looking for info, so it's useful to have things like that figured out. Things like storing frequently used recipes or the ability to download new ones and what those were or auto ordering habits of a refrigerator might actually give useful information on a target (if the players are clever enough to put it together) like the presence of a food allergy, and it would be easier than hacking the targets medical records. Beyond that it's nice to be able use fluff on ratings to describe a device and a location in a way that it can come alive a bit.
Aaron
The ruleset in question is the one with Attribute + Skill + Tool for dice pools. I got that from the OP, incidentally.
CanRay
Really, it'd change household to household depending on the person's personal tastes, and their ability to understand technology.

My Parents have a Decent Sound System, but it's ancient and only Stereo, and live in a "Medium" lifestyle.

My Audiophile Buddy has a SOTAA (State Of The Affordable Art) Sound System, despite living in a "Low" lifestyle.

Different rating on those two things.

Old Man Witticker, the Technophobe probably still has his old Crotchety Fuchi-HomeMaster 3 that he's had since 2046, and refuses to upgrade anything except the software. Whereas Old Man Mitnick, the Technophile, probably has been an early adopter of everything, and has sweeter gear than the 'Runners themselves!

So the fluff would change from house to house, and, frankly, it's not really worth "Wasting" a rulebook on this, when we're already chomping at the bit for the stuff that's due to come out!

Now, if someone were to write this up, I bet it'd make a kick hoop addition to the Shadowrun Official Webpage!
stevebugge
Yeah doesn't need a rulebook that's for sure. There used to be a collaborative web project called "The Neo-Anarchists Guide to Everything Else" which would have been a good venue for something like this. I'd just be happy to see it stay alive on the forums for a while with some decent ideas.
CanRay
And, of course, provide ShadowTalk In Character on all the drek the Corporators buy, eh? nyahnyah.gif
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